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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: Madam, I'm Adam on January 28, 2021, 05:56:05 PM
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So, this winter's been pretty brutal. As a result my newfound gear madness has kicked in, and recently I decided to watch Ben Degros's and Paul Schmitt's videos and and compile notes on wheelbase, kicks, concave, etc. instead of having to go back and forth.
Basically I thought that this could hopefully help me understand the physics of skating better, and maybe help my comfort and skill level while skating. Maybe this could be arranged into a chart, but I'm not that dedicated.
What I'd like to try is to relate their notes to my personal situation. For the record, I'm five foot eight, size 9-9.5 shoe size, about 160 lbs. I mainly skate flat, curbs, low ledges, smaller transition, banks, flatbars a little bit, and wallie spots. Major problems of mine are consistency, toe drag, and pop.
Here's what I know so far:
Width X Length
- First my personal experience - based on my height and weight and what I like to skate, I feel more comfortable skating a board that's 8-8.25 inches wide, while staying closer to the 8-8.125 range. It's a "smaller" board which may provide less stability, but it's also lighter and more responsive. I think that's common knowledge.
- I've found that 31.5 to 31.75 is my preferred length.
Concave
- Moving into Degros/Schmitt, first I'll run through the concave - which is basically the sides of the board. I think they're also called "wings," I don't know everything. If the concave is steep, the edges and nose/tail of the board rise more overall and the board takes more energy to skate. Catching the edges of a steeper board can feel a bit more stable for flip tricks. There's also more control on flatbars when you skate a steeper deck.
- Contrary to that is mellow concave = The board is flatter overall. Degros has said that thinner, vulcanized soles can work better with flatter boards. There’s also less of a lip on mellower boards, which may be harder to flip, so a thinner, rubbery sole of a shoe can help “grab” the board and flip it. Boards with mellower concave can also wear out faster. But they’re better for people with flatter feet.
- Conclusion: Being that I have flatter feet, yet like flip tricks and don't skate too many vulc shoes, I'm kind of torn here. I skated a flat board last year and it worked well for flip tricks, so my best best could be to skate a flatter board and wear vulc shoes that are a bit thicker, like Half Cab Pros. Either that or skate a board with flat/medium concave, which may take more research/time/effort.
Kicks
- Next are the kicks, or the nose and tail of the board (which I originally thought was also called concave). Soooo, steep kicks also take more energy to skate, which can lead to ghost pop where I don’t pop the board (which is a common problem of mine). But they can give more pop in general if my energy is there. But usually they can lead to less consistency and energy. You also need to put your back foot on the edge of the tail. But my feet can feel more locked in on transition, even though it takes more effort to pull back in on disasters and rocks. Also, Degros has said that for him, it feels like steep kicks help him feel more comfortable for backside tricks.
- This is important because muscles store energy, so the longer it takes my tail to hit the ground with a steeper kick, the more energy is going to be released in my ollie and the more power I'm going to have. But if I’m releasing all my energy in the ollie, I don’t have the energy to do the next part of the trick.
- Opposed to steep again is mellow - with mellow kicks, you can put your foot more inside the tail to pop higher, since in general, steeper kicks can provide more pop. A taller truck and slightly heavier wheels can give me more leverage to pop as well.
- Conclusion: This one's hard. A lot of pros and cons for each one. I ghost pop all the time, even with mellow kicks. If I have steep kicks, it'll only aggravate the problem. But I want to ollie higher and like backside tricks.
So, maybe a board with mellow kicks paired with higher trucks and a slightly bigger wheel is the best of both worlds. Maybe the backside thing is just Degros' situation. Either that or change the focus of my sessions to specific things like ollieing higher, and have two different setups - but I don't like that.
Taper
- Next, real quick is how tapered the nose and tail are. Wider nose/tail = better for slides, but not as responsive for flip tricks. Tapered nose/tail = worse for slides, more responsive for flip tricks
- Conclusion: Since I want to focus on my flip tricks, a board that's moreso tapered than square/wide is better.
Wheelbase
- So now the wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that for me, a 14 to 14.125 wheelbase is best. But the thing about wheelbase is how it's affected by so many other factors.
- If I skate a board with steeper kicks but a 14’ wheelbase, it’ll feel more like a medium-kick deck. A longer wheelbase can exaggerate the feel of steeper kicks. Going back to my earlier point, a board with steeper kicks and 14-inch WB could be the key.
- Wheelbase isn’t just the board; it’s the trucks as well. A shorter wheelbase can also make heavier trucks feel lighter. Also, if my wheelbase is longer and is paired with the right kinds of trucks (Degros mentions Thunders), my wheels will be further apart and my pop could improve.
- The longer the wheelbase - the further back the truck is - the heavier the nose of my board will feel . The front of my deck will be heavier, but it can also rise up more, and can provide stronger pop. Both Degros and Schmitt have discussed this and it's based on physics. This is why Schmitt has touted the use of riser pads, and I believe both have discussed higher trucks doing the same.
- Widening my wheelbase will make me turn slower; shortening my wheelbase will make me turn quicker.
- Lower trucks plus a longer wheelbase can provide more finesse.
- The goal is to find what Degros refers to as a Goldilocks zone: A wider wheelbase paired with a shorter wheelbase truck, or shorter wheelbase paired with a wider wheelbase truck. In addition, the trucks should be higher so I can have height at the front of my board
- Conclusion: There's a lot to sift through here, but my takeaway is that since I want to improve my pop without losing anything, I should either be using risers or higher trucks and combine that with a shorter wheelbase. I may be sacrificing the finesse that lower trucks with a longer wheelbase can provide, so my toe drags may still be an issue, but that remains to be seen.
Fingers of Fucking Flat
- After that is fingers of flat. This is a Schmitt thing - how many fingers I can fit between the bolt holes and the place where the tail and nose kick up. The more fingers of flat there are in a deck, the more control I’ll have. Fewer fingers, by contrast, means more power channeled into my pop, but less finesse.
- Now the problem with this is, I've always found that my two fingers have always fit between the outermost bolt holes and where the kicks start rising. It's never one, or three. Also, what about people whose fingers are fatter? I don't put a lot of stock into it.
- Conclusion: I don't think about fingers of flat as much as how the wheelbase/truck combo will affect my pop.
Wheels
- Last thing is the wheels. It's common knowledge that smaller wheels are better for flip tricks, but aren't as comfortable on transition and don't roll as quickly. Bigger wheels can go faster, but are also a bit heavier and can cause ghost pop.
- Conclusion: I'm not enthusiastic about the idea of a heavier setup to create leverage for more pop - a lighter setup has actually worked better for me - and I want to focus on flip tricks. I'm also not skating bigger transition on a regular basis. So a wheel that's not too wide like a Spit Classic that's roughly 51-54mm should suffice.
Final Conclusion: Based on my body type and what I like to skate, a board with dimensions that are 8.0 - 8.25 x 31.5 - 31.75 would be ideal. The wheelbase should be shorter, possibly 14-14.125, flatter concave and medium-steep fairly tapered kicks, and higher, lighter trucks and normal-width 51-54mm wheels. In my experience, the psychological factor of skating an 8 x 31.5 x 14 board helps, since those are clean numbers. Weird but true. I should also try to find a supportive, beefier vulc shoe to pair with the setup.
I'm not considering other factors like the flick on my shoes, how light/grippy my shoes are, my vertical leap, my body's flexibility, wheelbite (which I think would be alleviated by a higher truck as well), etc.
I'd love to hear any suggestions if I'm missing something, what kind of board/truck combos would work best, etc.
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Final Conclusion: Based on my body type and what I like to skate, a board with dimensions that are 8.0 - 8.25 x 31.5 - 31.75 would be ideal. The wheelbase should be shorter, possibly 14-14.125, flatter concave and medium-steep fairly tapered kicks, and higher, lighter trucks and normal-width 51-54mm wheels. In my experience, the psychological factor of skating an 8 x 31.5 x 14 board helps, since those are clean numbers. Weird but true. I should also try to find a supportive, beefier vulc shoe to pair with the setup.
Are you me? I'm your size and this is almost exactly what I look for in a setup. I like to ride the biggest wheels possible without too much wheelbite, but I constantly search for the dimensions you just described. I usually buy from my local and only pull the trigger on boards that check 3 of the 4 criteria I think about (8.0 or close to it width, shortest available length, 14 in wheelbase, medium concave/kick). I do waffle on concave sometimes... I have ridden flat boards that felt great and steep ones that I enjoyed, but it did change what felt good and ultimately what I ended up skating.
I ride Thunders and I can't imagine riding anything else, probably because I've been on them for so long... they just feel right.
You compiled lots of helpful information here for others wondering about how measurements affect skating, but you must also come to terms with the fact that you’re sending some folks down a dark and twisted path from which there is no return.
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I had already seen your rough notes :p but this reads well and is nicely organized. Thanks for the work behind it, I’m interested to see where the discussion goes here. And also once the weather warms up for you how this new information applies to your set up and progress.
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Expand Quote
Final Conclusion: Based on my body type and what I like to skate, a board with dimensions that are 8.0 - 8.25 x 31.5 - 31.75 would be ideal. The wheelbase should be shorter, possibly 14-14.125, flatter concave and medium-steep fairly tapered kicks, and higher, lighter trucks and normal-width 51-54mm wheels. In my experience, the psychological factor of skating an 8 x 31.5 x 14 board helps, since those are clean numbers. Weird but true. I should also try to find a supportive, beefier vulc shoe to pair with the setup.
Are you me? I'm your size and this is almost exactly what I look for in a setup. I like to ride the biggest wheels possible without too much wheelbite, but I constantly search for the dimensions you just described. I usually buy from my local and only pull the trigger on boards that check 3 of the 4 criteria I think about (8.0 or close to it width, shortest available length, 14 in wheelbase, medium concave/kick). I do waffle on concave sometimes... I have ridden flat boards that felt great and steep ones that I enjoyed, but it did change what felt good and ultimately what I ended up skating.
I ride Thunders and I can't imagine riding anything else, probably because I've been on them for so long... they just feel right.
You compiled lots of helpful information here for others wondering about how measurements affect skating, but you must also come to terms with the fact that you’re sending some folks down a dark and twisted path from which there is no return.
Actually going to the shop and standing on the different boards is key. That's something that very few if any online shops can even remotely capture.
I should give Thunders another chance, I've only had one pair and wasn't too keen on them...but maybe that was a result of their relation to the other parts of my setup, ionno.
You're totally right about traipsing down a dark path. I recently caught the gear madness bug after years of logging onto Slap, reading the truck thread, and staring in disbelief. But part of me welcomes the technical, detailed side of things and maybe it's about time haha.
I had already seen your rough notes :p but this reads well and is nicely organized. Thanks for the work behind it, I’m interested to see where the discussion goes here. And also once the weather warms up for you how this new information applies to your set up and progress.
Haha I'm dying to have a longer session outside to try out the setups I've concocted. Of course you'll be the first to know 8)
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Super cool notes. I’ve been meaning to listen to the Schmitt 9club podcast again to think about my setup. Some good food for thought here.
I’m also the same dimensions lol. 5ft 8 9.5 shoes 160lbs
I got some classics (55mm f4) recently cause I’ve been on conical shapes lately. I’m liking the classics they’re lighter and easier to maneuver than the conicals. If i remember correctly Schmitt said that smaller contact patch helps the board flip easier. I think I can feel that. Less effort. I also have fun sliding around on them.
Edit: I’ve been on 8.25 decks with ace 44/Indy 144
This summer I’m gonna try an 8.5 with 149, ace 55 on a 9inch board, and an 8inch deck w/ 139 indys all with either conical or classic wheel shape
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I got some classics (55mm f4) recently cause I’ve been on conical shapes lately. I’m liking the classics they’re lighter and easier to maneuver than the conicals. If i remember correctly Schmitt said that smaller contact patch helps the board flip easier. I think I can feel that. Less effort. I also have fun sliding around on them.
I don't think I've heard that before but it makes sense, thank you sir. The 8.25 with Ace 44s sounds like fun!
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Get a Polar with the dimensions you like. You will have a skategasm, imho.
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So, this winter's been pretty brutal. As a result my newfound gear madness has kicked in, and recently I decided to watch Ben Degros's and Paul Schmitt's videos and and compile notes on wheelbase, kicks, concave, etc. instead of having to go back and forth.
Basically I thought that this could hopefully help me understand the physics of skating better, and maybe help my comfort and skill level while skating. Maybe this could be arranged into a chart, but I'm not that dedicated.
What I'd like to try is to relate their notes to my personal situation. For the record, I'm five foot eight, size 9-9.5 shoe size, about 160 lbs. I mainly skate flat, curbs, low ledges, smaller transition, banks, flatbars a little bit, and wallie spots. Major problems of mine are consistency, toe drag, and pop.
Here's what I know so far:
Width X Length
- First my personal experience - based on my height and weight and what I like to skate, I feel more comfortable skating a board that's 8-8.25 inches wide, while staying closer to the 8-8.125 range. It's a "smaller" board which may provide less stability, but it's also lighter and more responsive. I think that's common knowledge.
- I've found that 31.5 to 31.75 is my preferred length.
Concave
- Moving into Degros/Schmitt, first I'll run through the concave - which is basically the sides of the board. I think they're also called "wings," I don't know everything. If the concave is steep, the edges and nose/tail of the board rise more overall and the board takes more energy to skate. Catching the edges of a steeper board can feel a bit more stable for flip tricks. There's also more control on flatbars when you skate a steeper deck.
- Contrary to that is mellow concave = The board is flatter overall. Degros has said that thinner, vulcanized soles can work better with flatter boards. There’s also less of a lip on mellower boards, which may be harder to flip, so a thinner, rubbery sole of a shoe can help “grab” the board and flip it. Boards with mellower concave can also wear out faster. But they’re better for people with flatter feet.
- Conclusion: Being that I have flatter feet, yet like flip tricks and don't skate too many vulc shoes, I'm kind of torn here. I skated a flat board last year and it worked well for flip tricks, so my best best could be to skate a flatter board and wear vulc shoes that are a bit thicker, like Half Cab Pros. Either that or skate a board with flat/medium concave, which may take more research/time/effort.
Kicks
- Next are the kicks, or the nose and tail of the board (which I originally thought was also called concave). Soooo, steep kicks also take more energy to skate, which can lead to ghost pop where I don’t pop the board (which is a common problem of mine). But they can give more pop in general if my energy is there. But usually they can lead to less consistency and energy. You also need to put your back foot on the edge of the tail. But my feet can feel more locked in on transition, even though it takes more effort to pull back in on disasters and rocks. Also, Degros has said that for him, it feels like steep kicks help him feel more comfortable for backside tricks.
- This is important because muscles store energy, so the longer it takes my tail to hit the ground with a steeper kick, the more energy is going to be released in my ollie and the more power I'm going to have. But if I’m releasing all my energy in the ollie, I don’t have the energy to do the next part of the trick.
- Opposed to steep again is mellow - with mellow kicks, you can put your foot more inside the tail to pop higher, since in general, steeper kicks can provide more pop. A taller truck and slightly heavier wheels can give me more leverage to pop as well.
- Conclusion: This one's hard. A lot of pros and cons for each one. I ghost pop all the time, even with mellow kicks. If I have steep kicks, it'll only aggravate the problem. But I want to ollie higher and like backside tricks.
So, maybe a board with mellow kicks paired with higher trucks and a slightly bigger wheel is the best of both worlds. Maybe the backside thing is just Degros' situation. Either that or change the focus of my sessions to specific things like ollieing higher, and have two different setups - but I don't like that.
Taper
- Next, real quick is how tapered the nose and tail are. Wider nose/tail = better for slides, but not as responsive for flip tricks. Tapered nose/tail = worse for slides, more responsive for flip tricks
- Conclusion: Since I want to focus on my flip tricks, a board that's moreso tapered than square/wide is better.
Wheelbase
- So now the wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that for me, a 14 to 14.125 wheelbase is best. But the thing about wheelbase is how it's affected by so many other factors.
- If I skate a board with steeper kicks but a 14’ wheelbase, it’ll feel more like a medium-kick deck. A longer wheelbase can exaggerate the feel of steeper kicks. Going back to my earlier point, a board with steeper kicks and 14-inch WB could be the key.
- Wheelbase isn’t just the board; it’s the trucks as well. A shorter wheelbase can also make heavier trucks feel lighter. Also, if my wheelbase is longer and is paired with the right kinds of trucks (Degros mentions Thunders), my wheels will be further apart and my pop could improve.
- The longer the wheelbase - the further back the truck is - the heavier the nose of my board will feel . The front of my deck will be heavier, but it can also rise up more, and can provide stronger pop. Both Degros and Schmitt have discussed this and it's based on physics. This is why Schmitt has touted the use of riser pads, and I believe both have discussed higher trucks doing the same.
- Widening my wheelbase will make me turn slower; shortening my wheelbase will make me turn quicker.
- Lower trucks plus a longer wheelbase can provide more finesse.
- The goal is to find what Degros refers to as a Goldilocks zone: A wider wheelbase paired with a shorter wheelbase truck, or shorter wheelbase paired with a wider wheelbase truck. In addition, the trucks should be higher so I can have height at the front of my board
- Conclusion: There's a lot to sift through here, but my takeaway is that since I want to improve my pop without losing anything, I should either be using risers or higher trucks and combine that with a shorter wheelbase. I may be sacrificing the finesse that lower trucks with a longer wheelbase can provide, so my toe drags may still be an issue, but that remains to be seen.
Fingers of Fucking Flat
- After that is fingers of flat. This is a Schmitt thing - how many fingers I can fit between the bolt holes and the place where the tail and nose kick up. The more fingers of flat there are in a deck, the more control I’ll have. Fewer fingers, by contrast, means more power channeled into my pop, but less finesse.
- Now the problem with this is, I've always found that my two fingers have always fit between the outermost bolt holes and where the kicks start rising. It's never one, or three. Also, what about people whose fingers are fatter? I don't put a lot of stock into it.
- Conclusion: I don't think about fingers of flat as much as how the wheelbase/truck combo will affect my pop.
Wheels
- Last thing is the wheels. It's common knowledge that smaller wheels are better for flip tricks, but aren't as comfortable on transition and don't roll as quickly. Bigger wheels can go faster, but are also a bit heavier and can cause ghost pop.
- Conclusion: I'm not enthusiastic about the idea of a heavier setup to create leverage for more pop - a lighter setup has actually worked better for me - and I want to focus on flip tricks. I'm also not skating bigger transition on a regular basis. So a wheel that's not too wide like a Spit Classic that's roughly 51-54mm should suffice.
Final Conclusion: Based on my body type and what I like to skate, a board with dimensions that are 8.0 - 8.25 x 31.5 - 31.75 would be ideal. The wheelbase should be shorter, possibly 14-14.125, flatter concave and medium-steep fairly tapered kicks, and higher, lighter trucks and normal-width 51-54mm wheels. In my experience, the psychological factor of skating an 8 x 31.5 x 14 board helps, since those are clean numbers. Weird but true. I should also try to find a supportive, beefier vulc shoe to pair with the setup.
I'm not considering other factors like the flick on my shoes, how light/grippy my shoes are, my vertical leap, my body's flexibility, wheelbite (which I think would be alleviated by a higher truck as well), etc.
I'd love to hear any suggestions if I'm missing something, what kind of board/truck combos would work best, etc.
Damn, you went in deep Professor!
I have a very different taste for a deck. I need my board to be about 32 inches long. Since I like my deck to be about 8.125 wide it has become more difficult to find a deck that‘s long enough. I guess it is automatically assumed that a taller guy will also choose a wider board. That used to be different like 15 years ago, when people would skate 32 inch long 7.75s.
About those fingers of flat: I hate them. I feel it delays my pop and makes 360 flips nearly impossible for me. Maybe it is because I scoop them with pressure the old school way not the new ad the Blackfoot late way. I have talked to some friends who do 360 flips in a similar way and they have had the same problem. I need little to no fingers of flat on my deck.
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I feel like such a rube after reading that.
As long as I can get a deck to come in at 8.5” to 8.8” and have a wheel base between 14.25” & 14.75” I’m all good. I guess I’ve determined by this point that 14.5” WB is my sweet spot, but I’ve had 15” set ups & liked them just fine. I do prefer some sort of shape (squared nose or tail) because... old, but am not picky.
As for trucks, gotta be a good turn, and axles pretty close flush. I’ll run as large a wheel as the trucks will accommodate (up to 56mm) without getting too much wheelbite, but anything will do. I only lean towards larger so I can go faster & more over, roll over crust & chunks. Durometer of approx. 99a feels about right.
Those are about as strict of guidelines as I can manage to adhere to, but I swear to you, I’ll ride anything you put under my feet & within half an hour, I will love it regardless of dims or config.
Is having “the madness” fun?
Should I look into it?
COVID’s got me bored & playing at being a school teacher 5 days a week has me missing out on a lot of skate time, so I’m open to more of anything skate related, even if it is an obsessive mania which, I’m not going to lie, looks a bit funny when looking in from the outside.
Fill me in, y’all; what am I missing out on?
EDIT: It should be noted that my skating is about as tech as a stone axe, and I have negative-zero finesse. Maybe that’s got more to do with it than anything else. And before anyone speculates, no: I’m not some bowl troll. I like skreet shit. Small skreet shit. Very small.
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I feel like such a rube after reading that.
As long as I can get a deck to come in at 8.5” to 8.8” and have a wheel base between 14.25” & 14.75” I’m all good. I guess I’ve determined by this point that 14.5” WB is my sweet spot, but I’ve had 15” set ups & liked them just fine. I do prefer some sort of shape (squared nose or tail) because... old, but am not picky.
As for trucks, gotta be a good turn, and axles pretty close flush. I’ll run as large a wheel as the trucks will accommodate (up to 56mm) without getting too much wheelbite, but anything will do. I only lean towards larger so I can go faster & more over, roll over crust & chunks. Durometer of approx. 99a feels about right.
Those are about as strict of guidelines as I can manage to adhere to, but I swear to you, I’ll ride anything you put under my feet & within half an hour, I will love it regardless of dims or config.
Is having “the madness” fun?
Should I look into it?
COVID’s got me bored & playing at being a school teacher 5 days a week has me missing out on a lot of skate time, so I’m open to more of anything skate related, even if it is an obsessive mania which, I’m not going to lie, looks a bit funny when looking in from the outside.
Fill me in, y’all; what am I missing out on?
EDIT: It should be noted that my skating is about as tech as a stone axe, and I have negative-zero finesse. Maybe that’s got more to do with it than anything else. And before anyone speculates, no: I’m not some bowl troll. I like skreet shit. Small skreet shit. Very small.
avoid it all costs if you are comfortable with what your on.
it was fun when i was new and didnt know my preference, i admit it. now that my range is narrowed to quarter inch differences, i can confidently say i dont want to ride my friends setups.
sure i found my zone but i wont change truck brand, wheels, and theres only three choices for boards atm. more functional than fun at this point
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It also depends on what you have access to, to some degree.
If you had access to way more product than you ever should (new or used, especially lots of second hand gear like me) you can mess around with almost anything and change out setups every other day. The stupid thing with all that is I often get messed up riding too many different and weird setups, so keep thinking, STOP IT!!! and go back to what I know works well.
The other thing too is being able to find a constant source of what you want to ride, which from a long time ago I had bought everything of what I had liked when I had the chance so I would never have to change anything and could setup an identical complete every single time, which would perform the same way, right from new.
More often than not, getting the same thing over and over is not only difficult with limited runs of boards or other product, but especially with covid or product shortages, lots of people are having to try different things to what they would normally get, or not be able to get what they want, so will go for something else instead.
This can even be down to what the local shop will get in as well, which in some cases is very limiting if you only buy after standing on a board.
Industry standards change too, eg shorter wheelbase and overall length of board is making a big comeback right now, so for people who want longer boards, this is going to make it harder for them, depending on which brands they are into.
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I have a very different taste for a deck. I need my board to be about 32 inches long. Since I like my deck to be about 8.125 wide it has become more difficult to find a deck that‘s long enough. I guess it is automatically assumed that a taller guy will also choose a wider board. That used to be different like 15 years ago, when people would skate 32 inch long 7.75s.
AH black eagle was one I had for a long time and still widely available, 8.125 x 32 with 14.25 wheelbase so a good amount of nose and tail, medium concave and good shape, but DLX make other boards in those sizes too.
My perfect setup nowdays for my 6'2" (188cm) height, size 11-12 shoes and medium build is around the 8.38 to 8.5 with 14.5 wheelbase and 32.25 to 32.8 length, 149 Indys and from 52 to 56 mm 99duro Spitfire F4 classic variants, so proportionally it is about the same as most smaller dudes on the 8 with 14 wb and size 9 shoes.
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You’re a G for taking the time to put this together
The length and wheel base are what I look at the most. 31.75 or 31.8 with a 14-14.25 is where I feel most comfortable. 14.25 is pushing it tho cause I ride Venture 5.25 lows. Love flat boards with mellow kicks, when it’s too steep I feel like I’m not fully on my board.
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I try not to worry about the "science" behind any of it, and came to the conclusion of what works best for me by remembering the characteristics of boards that worked best in the past, and vice versa.
I have 10.5/11 feet, so I've finally settled into 8.25-8.38 as the goldilocks width for at least the last decade.
Never been a fan of flat boards - my feet come off on ollies a lot and 360 flips are waaaay harder. Plus, I find they sog out quicker due to less concave keeping them rigid. Steep boards just feel better and I can pop everything better. I have more control on a steep board, not a flat one.
Has to be concave within the kicks, deal breaker if not. When boards don't have that it also causes air foot on ollies a lot for me. Little bit of spoon tail feels perfect.
Couldn't care less about wheelbase. Never known what it is on any board in my life. I think I like it shorter but whatever, not adding to my neurosis any more.
Fairly blunt for shape, but I can't stand how those Hockey/FA shapes look - I'm riding a Real 8.25 Full SE and it's just about perfect. Blunt but still round.
Dwindle boards always had more flat space after the truck holes and I was never a fan of how that pop feels so I prefer holes close to the start of the kicks.
Absolutely loathe non-dyed top and bottom layers. It just looks cheap. Top two and bottom two looks best.
I'm not a board/gear experimenter - I stick with what works. It feels so much better to just have a brand new version of what you're already used to.
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When it comes down to it, it's all about timing. As said directly above, stick with what you like.
With that said though, I think inseam length can be considered. The longer your legs in comparison to your torso, the more area you're able to access with your legs. I'm also 5'9" but I've found that stepping up my board size feels much better for flip tricks. I'm riding an 8.5" by 33" Quasi right now (14.5 WB). I also tend to be forceful with my flip tricks it seems so the extra weight feels better for me (I'm riding 56" wheels).
Edit: I think we all have that one friend who's feelings on what feels right and what doesn't changes month to month. Mine also happens to be bit of a hypochondriac.
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I have a very different taste for a deck. I need my board to be about 32 inches long. Since I like my deck to be about 8.125 wide it has become more difficult to find a deck that‘s long enough. I guess it is automatically assumed that a taller guy will also choose a wider board. That used to be different like 15 years ago, when people would skate 32 inch long 7.75s.
AH black eagle was one I had for a long time and still widely available, 8.125 x 32 with 14.25 wheelbase so a good amount of nose and tail, medium concave and good shape, but DLX make other boards in those sizes too.
My perfect setup nowdays for my 6'2" (188cm) height, size 11-12 shoes and medium build is around the 8.38 to 8.5 with 14.5 wheelbase and 32.25 to 32.8 length, 149 Indys and from 52 to 56 mm 99duro Spitfire F4 classic variants, so proportionally it is about the same as most smaller dudes on the 8 with 14 wb and size 9 shoes.
Yes Deluxe shapes are usually what I buy. They tend to have little to no fingers of flat and they have shapes with the proper length. I love the shape of that anti hero model you suggested I have bought it three times so far.
I am 6 foot tall and I have size 9.5 shoes. I am also a bigger guy for a Skateboarder. I like loose trucks and bigger wheels (53-56mm). Wheelbites can be a problem so I use risers even though I feel it is way easier to flip my board when it is lower to the ground. Some of the spots I like have rough ground so I need those bigger wheels. I like indys and thunders equally. I prefer indys for bowls and thunders for street. Since I like to skate both tranny and street i just make it work with either truck. Currently I skate indies.
I don‘t really give a shit about bearings. I usually skate Powell mini logos. They are not very fast, but they are cheap and usually last for a while.
I skate bones Stf. Any other wheel I have tried has flatspotted on me within the first week. I like wider ones. They might be a little less fast but they last longer and give me more grip.
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You’re a G for taking the time to put this together
The length and wheel base are what I look at the most. 31.75 or 31.8 with a 14-14.25 is where I feel most comfortable. 14.25 is pushing it tho cause I ride Venture 5.25 lows. Love flat boards with mellow kicks, when it’s too steep I feel like I’m not fully on my board.
Thank you! Good point about the 14.25 / Venture 5.25 lows combo.
When it comes down to it, it's all about timing. As said directly above, stick with what you like.
With that said though, I think inseam length can be considered. The longer your legs in comparison to your torso, the more area you're able to access with your legs. I'm also 5'9" but I've found that stepping up my board size feels much better for flip tricks. I'm riding an 8.5" by 33" Quasi right now (14.5 WB). I also tend to be forceful with my flip tricks it seems so the extra weight feels better for me (I'm riding 56" wheels).
Good stuff, never considered the inseam. I have longer legs as well, I could wear pants with a size up from my regular inseam to see if that's more comfortable. I usually stick with a 30" inseam because I don't want too much sag, and I'm able to move comfortably with that size, but it might be time to switch it up.
Has to be concave within the kicks, deal breaker if not. When boards don't have that it also causes air foot on ollies a lot for me. Little bit of spoon tail feels perfect.
Fairly blunt for shape, but I can't stand how those Hockey/FA shapes look - I'm riding a Real 8.25 Full SE and it's just about perfect. Blunt but still round.
Dwindle boards always had more flat space after the truck holes and I was never a fan of how that pop feels so I prefer holes close to the start of the kicks.
Great points here, esp. the spoon tail. Please say hi to the Vancouver Carpenter next time you see him haha, actually he might still lurk here, what up @Ben De Gros
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The easiest way to figure it all out is track what you skate and how well you skate on it. Of course this requires you to be skating a lot so you know your skating is on point no matter what you skate...everyone skates better when you are skating 24/7 so the real trick is noting your tricks and if you are just 'on' all the time based on what you are skating.
I skate best on middle of the road setups:
Street/All terrain:
8.2/8.25 x 31.75 (but under 32")
14.125/14.25 WB
8" trucks (but prefer 8.25") mid
51/52 mm wheels
Medium kicks and concave
Lately I've really found a sweet spot with certain dims but impossible to get them together: 8.18/8.2"W x 14.18 WB x 31.75/31.8" L - Basically something that sits right between an 8" and 8.25"
Bowls:
8.3x (32" max length)
14.3/14.4" WB
144/148/149 standards
53/54 mm wheels
Steep everything
5'10"
175/180lbs avg.
US 10
The DLX 8.28"x31.5"x14.18" WB is almost on point; I've never seen the longer own 31.75 in the wild.
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- The goal is to find what Degros refers to as a Goldilocks zone: A wider wheelbase paired with a shorter wheelbase truck, or shorter wheelbase paired with a wider wheelbase truck.
Good post by OP. But neither OP nor Ben Degros understands wheelbase. Hear me out.
The main issue is that they both assume there is such thing as a "wider" or "shorter" wheelbase without actually measuring any TOTAL wheelbases or understanding what wheelbase they like. More on that in a bit. 15" board wheelbase? Oh, that's "long," I need to put Aces on that. Wait, everyone needs to do that and that board will magically work for them? What determines how long the board needs to be before Ventures don't work? Or how short before Aces don't work? ???
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What is wheelbase?
My not-so-outlandish theory: the wheelbase that actually matters is the TOTAL wheelbase axle-to-axle, like a car.
No one--outside of the Truck Wheelbase thread--ever measures this. If this is consistent, you will have a relatively consistent feel in rotational leverage. If this is random, every board is going to perform differently in tricks where wheelbase matters.
There is no point in pairing a "short wheelbase board" with a "long wheelbase truck" if what your body desires is, for example, a 17" wheelbase axle-to-axle, but you're just randomly trying to hit it with this "Goldilocks Zone" notion, rather than actually measuring your preferred wheelbase and reproducing it. A wheelbase of 17" is always going to rotate the same, regardless of board/truck pairing.
The axle-to-axle wheelbase of my current setup is 16 5/8". If I decide on a new Christmas complete, I can make the rotational characteristics almost the same as the current setup--regardless of board wheelbase, regardless of truck brand--if I just make the axle-to-axle wheelbase 16 5/8". Simple as that. I could hit this mark with Aces or with Ventures; I just need the appropriate board pairing. To hit a 16 5/8" axle-to-axle wheelbase with Ventures, I'd need a ~13.5" wheelbase board. My experiments suggest this board would perform roughly the same as a ~14" with Aces--at least in the areas that wheelbase most affects. The "Goldilocks" model attempts to replicate these findings while skipping the truly important measurement: axle-to-axle wheelbase.
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Why it matters
I believe axle-to-axle wheelbase relates to shoulder width. Like sport jacket size. When I put my skateboard with 16 5/8" axle-to-axle wheelbase up to my chest, the wheels are just past the ends of my shoulders. My preferred axle-to-axle wheelbase IS my shoulder width, give or take. It's no coincidence.
Yes, wheelbase affects how your trucks turn and it affects pop, but it MOST matters when you're doing a trick where rotational leverage is the main driver of the trick. Eg kickturns, 180s/360s, and shuvs. A back 180 on a 16 5/8" wheelbase always takes me less rotational energy to execute than a back 180 on a 16 6/8" wheelbase, regardless of different pop characteristics, weight, and other sources of leverage. Shuvs are slower when my axle-to-axle wheelbase is longer--just as flips are slower when the board is wider. I can even feel an 1/8" difference just doing kickturns on transition. It absolutely affects kickturns, 180s, and shuvs more than any other dimension of the board. And it obviously affects your stability and foot placement for every little thing, particularly on transition. I mean, it's hilarious people here obsess about how the amount of washers on the inside of your hangar affects flip speed, or whether spacers add weight to your setup--but no one even considers how much an 1/8" different wheelbase affects every single rotational maneuver you do. Jsoy is the only poster I've seen that has related wheelbase to shoulder width in the Gear forum. But I don't think he's ever noted the importance of TOTAL (axle-to-axle) wheelbase.
This is only part of the puzzle. But my theory actually addresses wheelbase-to-body ratio, rather than the wishy-washy "sub-14.5" boards should go with Ventures, over-14.5" should go with Aces--it's just Goldilocks logic" nonsense that Ben pushes. How does that even make sense? We aren't all the same size. Ben is literally twice my weight, and his shoulders have to be a good 3" broader. His stance and physical leverage in turning and rotational tricks have to be at least that 3" different.
Why even posit the very important revelation that our boards should relate to body size, and apply it to deck width vs. shoe size and deck length vs. inseam (both of which are correct) if we're going to stop short of wheelbase vs shoulder width, and instead prescribe "Goldilocks" deck/truck combos? :o :o :o I mean the inconsistency is just weird.
My measurements:
5'5", 115 lb, size 7 US men's foot, 28" inseam, 36S jacket
Currently on an Enjoi with Ace 22s, which measures:
31" length (about the length of my leg, from foot to hip bone)
16 5/8" axle-to-axle (about the width of my shoulders)
7.75" width (about the size of my foot, from ball to heel)
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What wheelbase isn't
Will this make Ventures turn like Aces, just by putting one pair on a 13.5" board and the other pair on a 14"? No. Actual turning characteristics will vary somewhat depending on truck geometry, whether I have the bushings right, width of the board/truck, and wheel shape (affecting leverage). And pop characteristics? Well, as OP's post points out in various ways, pop characteristics are dependent on basically every measurement: particularly fingers of flat/truck combo, but also height, wheelbase, weight, and even--in the case of flipping and rotating--wheel contact patch and their placements in relation to the board concave. That is going to require another post to address. Part of my point is that picking wheelbase based on pop characteristics or turn characteristics is muddying the issue. Pop and turn are both dependent on many interrelated things.
I think the best thing to do is sort your correct width, length, and wheelbase first, and then experiment with pop. Pop relates mostly to how high the board rises when you stand on the tail (what Schmitt calls the "triangle"), how light that feels, and where the fulcrum is in relation to your body. How high and heavy the board needs to pop, and where that fulcrum needs to be, is--surprise--different for different people, tricks, and terrain. It's not just: oh, there's three fingers of flat, Ben says to use Ventures. C'mon.
I just feel like if we're going to try to think critically, let's at least TRY to think critically.
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TL;DR: OP is on the right track, but he's only scratching the surface. Less YouTube, more measuring tape would help. I'm not a huge fan of Ben Degros. What he talks about are merely starting points to help make different setups begin to feel the same as each other--without having to understanding why or to use a ruler. And that's a good place to start if you don't want to think too much. But this is the Slap gear forum. We want to overthink, don't we?
I recognize this is an AGGRESSIVELY kooky first post. I apologize for nothing.
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- The goal is to find what Degros refers to as a Goldilocks zone: A wider wheelbase paired with a shorter wheelbase truck, or shorter wheelbase paired with a wider wheelbase truck.
Good post by OP. But neither OP nor Ben Degros understands wheelbase. Hear me out.
The main issue is that they both assume there is such thing as a "wider" or "shorter" wheelbase without actually measuring any TOTAL wheelbases or understanding what wheelbase they like. More on that in a bit. 15" board wheelbase? Oh, that's "long," I need to put Aces on that. Wait, everyone needs to do that and that board will magically work for them? What determines how long the board needs to be before Ventures don't work? Or how short before Aces don't work? ???
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What is wheelbase?
My not-so-outlandish theory: the wheelbase that actually matters is the TOTAL wheelbase axle-to-axle, like a car.
Degros does measure/account for this.
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When it comes down to it, it's all about timing. As said directly above, stick with what you like.
With that said though, I think inseam length can be considered. The longer your legs in comparison to your torso, the more area you're able to access with your legs. I'm also 5'9" but I've found that stepping up my board size feels much better for flip tricks. I'm riding an 8.5" by 33" Quasi right now (14.5 WB). I also tend to be forceful with my flip tricks it seems so the extra weight feels better for me (I'm riding 56" wheels).
Good stuff, never considered the inseam. I have longer legs as well, I could wear pants with a size up from my regular inseam to see if that's more comfortable. I usually stick with a 30" inseam because I don't want too much sag, and I'm able to move comfortably with that size, but it might be time to switch it up.
Can't tell if joking, but i'm not talking about the pants my guy.
Think of your legs as the arms of a drawing compass (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71WYzz1exSL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
The longer the arms of the compass, the larger the circle you can draw with it. A longer inseam measurement means your legs are longer and will be able to reach the end of the board for flip tricks easier (theoretically) than someone with your same height but shorter legs.
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Degros does measure/account for this.
Ok. I've seen him measure it, but never seen him understand the significance. Can you point me to the link?
I'm pretty sure Ben would say my setup is "wrong," since my deck has a 13.9" wheelbase and 2.5 fingers of flat. Only Ventures should work for that deck, right?
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I recognize this is an AGGRESSIVELY kooky first post. I apologize for nothing.
This post wouldn't have been kooky at all had you not come in with such condescension
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Damn. One reply mocking my formatting, another calling my attempt at humility condenscension. Both within the hour. Welcome to slap, amirite?
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Damn. One reply mocking my formatting, another calling my attempt at humility condenscension. Both within the hour. Welcome to slap, amirite?
Just measured my axle to axle wheelbase, then my shoulders, pretty much spot on at 17.5"
I'm 5'11" with a size 10 foot. Totally agree that assuming that a perfect ratio exists that doesn't take body dims into account.
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I recognize this is an AGGRESSIVELY kooky first post. I apologize for nothing.
Post an axle to axle wheelbase fuccboi
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Damn. One reply mocking my formatting, another calling my attempt at humility condenscension. Both within the hour. Welcome to slap, amirite?
Listen, you made excellent points but your attempt at humility was, sadly, just an attempt.
Thank you for your insight (although it doesn't seem much different from Degros' ideas - you're just keeping the trucks consistent and using the board as the only variable to be even more precise/consistent, no?), but it is possible to share insight without painting everyone around you as idiots with outrageous ideas.
Edit: I am almost certain Degros mentions in every video that the setups he tries work/don't work specifically for him, but I don't think he ever has gone on to discuss just how much a person's body dimensions other than leg length/height make a difference. The shoulder width idea is very interesting.
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Thank you for your insight (although it doesn't seem much different from Degros' ideas - you're just keeping the trucks consistent and using the board as the only variable to be even more precise/consistent, no?)
I think Ben and I are measuring the same stuff, but believe in different goals. I believe in figuring out what dimensions people are physically suited to/preferred in the past, and recreating/tweaking from there. Whereas Ben would look at my deck dimensions and basically say that Aces aren’t gonna work on that thing, just because it’s got too much flat and the wheelbase is too short.
but it is possible to share insight without painting everyone around you as idiots with outrageous ideas
Dog. Is it possible that I was jokingly expressing solidarity with the “kooks” of this forum? And posting here because I believe I belong here? Do you take everything this personally?
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Thank you for your insight (although it doesn't seem much different from Degros' ideas - you're just keeping the trucks consistent and using the board as the only variable to be even more precise/consistent, no?)
I think Ben and I are measuring the same stuff, but believe in different goals. I believe in figuring out what dimensions people are physically suited to/preferred in the past, and recreating/tweaking from there. Whereas Ben would look at my deck dimensions and basically say that Aces aren’t gonna work on that thing, just because it’s got too much flat and the wheelbase is too short.
This is your most compelling point and I will now hold everything I hear about trucks and wheelbase up to it. And again, I thank you!
but it is possible to share insight without painting everyone around you as idiots with outrageous ideas
Dog. Is it possible that I was jokingly expressing solidarity with the “kooks” of this forum? And posting here because I believe I belong here? Do you take everything this personally?
You absolutely belong here, but the fact that two people felt a bit put off by the tone of your post should probably tell you more about your phrasing than the good folks of Slap. Leading with the statement that Degros and op don't understand wheelbase doesn't set you up to be heard (for the record, I DID hear you, though) by people interested in his videos. Again, you make good points, very good ones, you just sounded like a know it all at multiple points. I'm not hurt, I'm just letting you know as a friend...
Also, I got your kook joke and didn't think that was an example of condescension.
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All good dog. I’ve read this forum for years. I fully understand the “tone” that is appropriate and I fully expected to be clowned and have to defend my personal qualities over a post like this.
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All good dog. I’ve read this forum for years. I fully understand the “tone” that is appropriate and I fully expected to be clowned and have to defend my personal qualities over a post like this.
Shoulda lead with a smile instead! Your points are valid and welcomed imo.
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Can't tell if joking, but i'm not talking about the pants my guy.
Think of your legs as the arms of a drawing compass (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71WYzz1exSL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
The longer the arms of the compass, the larger the circle you can draw with it. A longer inseam measurement means your legs are longer and will be able to reach the end of the board for flip tricks easier (theoretically) than someone with your same height but shorter legs.
I actually was thinking pants, thanks for setting it straight haha.
You absolutely belong here, but the fact that two people felt a bit out off by the tone of your post should probably tell you more about your phrasing than the good folks of Slap. Leading with the statement that Degros and op don't understand wheelbase doesn't you up to be heard (for the record, I DID hear you, though) by people interested in his videos. Again, you make good points, very good ones, you just sounded like a know it all at multiple points. I'm not hurt, I'm just letting you know as a friend...
Also, I got your kook joke and didn't think that was an example of condescension.
Yeah, all of this ^. @Post A Fit Fuccboi I appreciate the response. And yeah, as you said it is an aggressively kooky first post, but at least you're aware of it. I'm glad you're bringing forth the idea of rotational leverage and shoulder width into the picture because that's something I hadn't considered.
Also, please create this post that you talk about:
Well, as OP's post points out in various ways, pop characteristics are dependent on basically every measurement: particularly fingers of flat/truck combo, but also height, wheelbase, weight, and even--in the case of flipping and rotating--wheel contact patch and their placements in relation to the board concave. That is going to require another post to address.
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as you said it is an aggressively kooky first post, but at least you're aware of it.
I came in a little hot. Three people have commented on that now, in different ways. ;D
I have no excuse other than to say I expected to be clowned and maybe was pre-emptively defensive.
Ironically, Schmitt rubbed lots of posters here the wrong way with his Nine Club episode because of a perceived similar attitude.
I definitely have more in common with the Professor than with your average skater. Including his good intentions.
Also, please create this post that you talk about
I have some theories about pop, which I alluded to. But I'm less sure about the specifics. Pop is complicated. I don't know if I'm ready to share those ideas yet. Bet y'all will be the first to know.
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All good dog. I’ve read this forum for years. I fully understand the “tone” that is appropriate and I fully expected to be clowned and have to defend my personal qualities over a post like this.
You seem like a dick head that knows his shit. You will fit in here.
I also think you have a point. Particularly with how your shoulders relates to wb.
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You seem like a dick head that knows his shit.
That’s why I compared myself to Schmitt. That guy wouldn’t even be considered smart if he talked to anyone other than skaters.
Even the people who were on my side b4 are gonna be pissed I wrote this one
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That’s why I compared myself to Schmitt. That guy wouldn’t even be considered smart if he talked to anyone other than skaters.
nanotubes
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Bro-Science be damned, there is science and math at play here, physics and geometry for starters, anyone that doesn't believe in it...well the earth is also ROUND.
Shoulder width / stance width I believe are indeed conjoined in some fashion 'feet shoulders width apart' for example.
Thing is, you can step on a setup and instantly know it's too short or too long when it comes to dic...er deck length and wheelbase...there also has to be a reason why the industry standard wheelbase is fourteen point fucking two five...does that coincide with the average male height of 5.7" <Aliens>
As far as Fingers of Fucking Flat...I'm not sure about the 'finesse' bit does the Proff. mean tricks? Style? What? The ability to 'finesse' the ollie for more more pop?
What I can say is that a steep, right after the bolts kick is more powerful for ollies IF you have pop. By pop I mean a quick snap, mellow long kicks are not big pop providers IMO.
Foot distance apart in conjunction with board length for ollies...shit will make you go mad...everyone is totally unique to what feels right, loose, tight, flat, deep, steep, full, pointy, mellow, standards, lows, 101, 99, shaped, stable, carvey, on and on and on...that said, I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
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What I can say is that a steep, right after the bolts kick is more powerful for ollies IF you have pop. By pop I mean a quick snap
Respectfully, bro, you are saying a couple of mixed-up things. I will try to rebut with no boldface and minimal punctuation so as not to attract your ridicule.
A steep, right after the bolts kick is indeed a more powerful ollie--because the board has to become more vertical before the tail connects. You can measure the angle difference yourself. Schmitt does this on the Nine Club, several times, using an app on his phone. Also, the board feels heavier with a shorter tail. The ollie takes more energy to execute because you are essentially pushing on a shorter lever handle. But when you successfully execute the pop, you are forcing all that extra energy into a taller ollie. This is good if you tend to do tall tricks, or are a tall person, or tend toward a more wound-up, higher ollie. It is therefore a SLOWER snap--not a faster one--that produces more power.
A longer tail (one with more flat) offers more "finesse" in the sense that it is a longer lever handle. A longer lever handle makes the part on the other side of the fulcrum feel lighter. Longer tails therefore give a lighter pop that also connects with the ground FASTER at a shorter, lower angle (lower "triangle"), yielding an ollie that can be more controlled in height: a possible lower pop with less energy, or a higher one IF you know how to direct more energy into your pop. Again, you can measure this angle difference if you stand on the tail. However, you also have more control over the DIRECTION of the energy with a longer tail. This means stuff like shuvs and bigspins seem lighter to spin (ie easier to control in a rotational direction, rather than an upward direction) with more fingers of flat. And finally, manuals generally are easier with a longer lever handle, which more fingers of flat give you. Hence, "finesse" is really just a layman's term for the physics concept of mechanical advantage.
However, it becomes much easier to screw up tricks by sending the energy in the wrong direction, ie rotationally when you're trying to go straight up. There can be such a thing as too much finesse, too much control, when you're trying to do a tall trick with minimal rotation, or just ollie up over something bigger than you're used to. This is why Schmitt talks about beginners needing more power and experts needing more finesse.
This is also what people mean when they refer to Ventures as a delayed pop and Ace as a fast one.
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I’m going to have to take the week off so I can peruse that whole tome there. I look forward to hopefully arguing about its contents.
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New favorite thread.
5’8”, 165, sz 10. Inseam 30”, shoulders very approximately 16”.
Current best setup: 8” ps stix (strangelove) x14x31.5”. Ace 33s. 53 conical fulls. I haven’t measured but i think that would be an effective wb of 16.75”. The board is very flat. The tail is small. Ollie was smacking tho.
I’ve skated a lot of different things, especially over the last few years. I chase every trend. Very susceptible to trying to ride setups heavily inspired by favorite pros/nostalgia/skateboard politics/etc. Setups that I’ve had where things are ‘easier’, are often 8” or less, short, shorter wb (I don’t need to be particular on 7.75-8” stuff, but I struggle with selecting 129 vs 139 trucks on 7.75s). A perfect example of an easier setup for me was the light green eagle, 7.81, venture 5.0....hi’s, 53 ish wheels. Could do every flip that I’ve ever been able to do. Couldn’t keep skating it because it looked too fucked.
Agree that Degros and the Professor are just kind of scratching the service.
The snark is growing on me
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New favorite thread.
The snark is growing on me
Mine too honestly! Can't say I'm a big fan of fuccbois snark yet, but I have not seen more coherent explanations of how board dimensions affect performance.
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That was an interesting read.
I like a longer tail otherwise my back foot tends to fall off the board, especially on blunts and tailslides.
I also like more mellow concave and kicks, because I am old and broken and my ankles don't bend well on steep kicks.
I have pretty much left most tech tricks in the old "rarely done unless completely warmed up" bag as well as being forgetful where that bag actually is most of the time, but I can still ollie over knee high when I need to, so I can see my type of board works well for my lazy ass.
The hypothesis:
Longer more mellow boards are better for me, as I prefer to keep two feet on my board and be able to walk tomorrow.
:)
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So I have a pretty severe case of madness as those who have seen the woodshop, truck and setup threads already know. I feel like I've tried a pretty large swath of whats on the market and I've come to a few conclusions that hold true for me (but may not for you).
- Flatter boards are significantly less tiring to skate. This becomes more apparent the older and more out of shape you get. I would estimate that I get 20 or so more good strong pops (be they ollies or flip trick attempts) per session before my legs are cooked when I'm on a DOA flat or one of the mellow PS options vs say a hockey/FA or polar board.
- Everything listed matters, but I think the biggest factor in how much I like a deck is the angle of the kicks, particularly the tail. A steep tail can ruin a deck that's otherwise perfect, and likewise a nose that isn't steep enough will make it almost impossible for me to do anything with a toe flick. I could probably heelflip a plank, but I need that steep nose to even get close to kickflips. I can feel the difference between the most minute differences in tail angle, and once it gets to a certain point my timing goes completely out of whack and I ghost pop everything.
- Fingers of flat has more wiggle room but if its too extreme in either direction it totally ruins the deck. I recently picked up a creature cold press that has like a 6.7 tail from the truck holes but so much flat that its effectively less than 5" and its awful. I mean just putrid feeling. At the other end of the spectrum I find a lot of BBS decks that have very little flat and that little dip down scoop thing to be very difficult to skate.
- I used to think wheelbase was the most important thing but the more decks I've skated I've grown to think about it less. As long as its between 14-14.5 and the tail angle is good I can adjust pretty quickly. Shorter wb does make tre flips a little easier, but once i got over my madness and skated a few 14.4/14.5 wb decks I was surprised at how quickly I could adapt. Over 14.5 is impossible for me though, I think because I have a very upright stance and spreading my legs out too much feels super awkward
- Finally, the thing I think people overlook way too much is length. Length is almost as important as kick angle to me, and I think its actually more important than width. Again because of my upright stance and being old and not as flexible, I need a shorter board so my legs don't have to move as far. 31.6 seems to be my sweet spot, but I can drop down close to 31 without much problem, but can only go up to about 31.8. I've tried to skate a fair share of 32" or longer boards but I cant really think of any that I've liked.
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I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
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I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...
Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
PAFF if you are looking to be roasted.... I don’t think Degros weighs ‘literally’ #230, and several of your ideas have been expressed on ‘skateboarding is my lifetime sport’ in 2012ish: shoulders to effective wheelbase, board length hip to ankle, board width to heel ball of foot. I, personally, like the shit talking, and feel like it is somewhat tongue in cheek.
I welcome the theories about board/equipment fit. For me personally, I’ll have an idea, say 14” wb, and find that to be a working guideline for awhile, and then later have that upset by new information. I have skated well on several boards that had a 14” wb, that were flat/mellow, with ace trucks. Which would be the smallest effective wb I’m reasonably able to get. I have a very difficult time skating my Jovontae reissue, 7.5x14x31, or an old fa, 8x14x31. I don’t have ace 22s, maybe the that’d work, but those boards already feel pretty small and squirrelly, if they were wider the length would be fine. 360 flips are a really volatile trick for me, shit needs to be just right....for me to have them work, these days, despite formerly being a go to, and yet I have a 9x14.75x33” board on 159s and the rotations for the 3flips are great. What I’m trying to say is all I know is that I don’t know.
The ‘Goldilocks’ zone always sounds like gibberish. Degros is over 6’, I’m 5’8”, there isn’t a proportional leap in sizes. I also enjoy boards the same size as PAFF, yet I’m 5” taller, 50# heavier.
The flexibility that BFRD was talking about, plus tail length/angles definitely play factors. I think the surface is being scratched, but as far as hard numbers, board fit is wide open
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I agree with BFRD that Kicks matter more (to me at least) than WB.
specifically, the triangle of leverage...think of a triangle that goes from the tip of your tail to the ground, from that point to the center of your axle, and then front the center of your axle, back to the tip of the tail). That is in part dictated by the angle of the kicks of your board, and then further manipulated by the height and axle placement of your trucks and the size of your wheels. That's going to control how your board pops, but also the angle and length of the nose/tail dictate how your board flicks, and that isn't something you can change with trucks.
The triangle also interacts with your WB, and an axle to axle WB of 17" on two different boards is going to behave and feel different if your triangle of leverage is different on each setup. So I guess my point is that talking about one without the other feels a little pointless.
Also I think the triangle and WB interaction has way more to do with how heavy a board feels than hoe much your trucks weigh (a lot of times people are splitting hairs on pocket change weight with the forged/hollow/ti thing).
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Even though the thread is technically about board dimensions, I'd like to throw out another thought.
What kind of shoes are y'all rocking? I'm talking the midsole specifically.
Personally, if I'm doing flip tricks, the midsole of the shoe MUST be as flush with the upper as possible. It's very disorienting when fat cupsole shoes stick out so much I have no idea when my shoe is going to finish flicking the board.
It's honestly not so obvious unless you really look closely at the toe
Perfect:
(https://res.cloudinary.com/dm1ikhi6x/image/upload/w_1300,c_limit/q_auto,f_auto/products/msfn90jesxfac9v9gkuy)
Not so good:
(https://www.tactics.com/a/cn2h/9/nike-sb-zoom-blazer-mid-skate-shoes-mystic-dates-glacier-ice-top.webp)
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I get what you're saying, Jim. My first session in some dunk his last summer was a bit like learning to kickflip all over again because I switched from bruins, which have very different toeboxes.
Lately I've been going back and forth between a pair of NB 440 highs and a pair of Jordan 1's. Though they're both cups, they definitely have different toe construction, with the J's having a less flush midsole and the NB's midsole much more flush with the toe on the upper.
The flick is different, but for me it just takes a few minutes of trial and error to get used to it. You gotta consider though that I have been skating 1's for months and that lately I've been switching consistently every few sessions between my current pair and these NB's, AND that I do a lot of kickflips, so I'm very accustomed to how flickingfeels in both shoes.
At any rate, switching to a new shoe will require some getting used to (especially with flip tricks) and in some cases, at least in my experience, it just doesn't work out. Going back to Adam's idea about skating a thicker vulc with his ideal setup, I tend to find that happy medium by skating thinner cups. I can't imagine skating vulcs anymore, even halfcabs... Skating in cups just feels so much safer, secure, and stable. I don't know if I've ever thought about how vulcs/cups pair with steep/flat concave, though. That relationship seems unexplored.
Edit: Also those shoes with big bumper midsoles that stick out past the toe start to feel a lot better after the rubber is worn down, suggesting that a thinner/more flush midsole to begin with might just lend itself better to flicking right out the box. You sacrifice durability, though!
Another one: I wonder if you're also feeling the difference in the height of the toe above the midsole? Maybe this is what you were talking about in the first place when you mentioned the midsole being flush.
Tall/not flush
(https://i.imgur.com/Nrc2vJz_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Short/flush
(https://i.imgur.com/VCAdeBt_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
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From what I’ve gathered in my research with gear madness my preferred setup for my size I’m 6’2” size l2” shoes 205lbs board’s are usually 8.25” smallest I ride to 8.5” 14&1/2” wb.
I like a mellow to flat concave with a little wider trucks then my board for stability and reassurance.
Since watching Ben’s video on truck geometry and other nerdy stuff I’ve found my perfect setup.
If you have a short wheelbase get Thunders or Ventures if you’ve got a wide wheelbase get an Indy or Ace. I find the kicks don’t really matter to me IMO but that’s just me though.
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Edit: Also those shoes with big bumper midsoles that stick out past the toe start to feel a lot better after the rubber is worn down, suggesting that a thinner/more flush midsole to begin with might just lend itself better to flicking right out the box. You sacrifice durability, though!
Another one: I wonder if you're also feeling the difference in the height of the toe above the midsole? Maybe this is what you were talking about in the first place when you mentioned the midsole being flush.
Tall/not flush
(https://i.imgur.com/Nrc2vJz_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Short/flush
(https://i.imgur.com/VCAdeBt_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Hm, I don't think I really flick with that part of my shoe.
Like, switching from GT blazers back to regular blazers is always a trip and my kickflips suffer from it. It takes a long while before the mid sole wears down to what I like so I stopped skating them. Good shoes for transition tho, a la lance mountain.
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Snip personal opinion
Can't believe I am taking the bait, but it's a slow night.
I've been ollie'ing higher than you, faster than you, and over greater distances than you, longer than you've been alive.
Brute force ollies, zero finesse. My snap/pop is really, really fast. I can oliie higher/easier on steep kicks with no fingers of flat with less effort compared to long kicks more fingers. Why? Habit. I chalk it up to the 80s, skating H-Street tails with no nose to catch and lift/guide the ollie. I learned on Vision Gonz decks (mellow) and perfected my method on H-Street Ron Allen decks. Steeper than you've ever stepped on.
And as such, with steep kicks I can rocket and suck my back foot up wicked fast to clear shit (I'm also going fast to lessen the time it takes to clear the object). If you go fast you need to ollie fast or shit goes wrong fast. Quick snap, suck up the back leg, stay over your board and let speed guide you over.
With mellow kicks I have to take my time, can't rocket - I need to 'plan', I can't go as fast, I need to level out more: bone the ollies out with my front foot, dip down, hoist the back leg up in order to clear. This is slower for me. <--- for me, son.
This is why I said it's up to the person and what feels right. You are putting too much science into the gear and not accounting for the person at the wheel.
"Rotationally"? W T actual F are you talking about? I'm talking ollies here now you are covering your ass with bigspins. Stay focused kiddo.
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...
Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying we're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?
Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.
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With mellow kicks I have to take my time, can't rocket - I need to 'plan', I can't go as fast, I need to level out more: bone the ollies out with my front foot, dip down, hoist the back leg up in order to clear. This is slower for me.
i cant vibe with mellow kicks for this exact reason, well put. its really "just jump" with steep kicks and feels more natural. lose all my power with mellow tails and it feels gross 90% of the time
I've been ollie'ing higher than you, faster than you, and over greater distances than you, longer than you've been alive.
who can clear the most boards??? post vids
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I'm 5'5" and am broad shouldered and chested and have short legs. Even at my "thinnest" (which isn't thin, I've always been a heavy dude), I was like 135lbs with a 39/40" chest. I would ideally like an 8x31.5/75 with a 14.38ish wheelbase. The DLX 8.06 comes very close to this, but I also prefer bigger wheels (54-56mm) and having fat wheels on smaller trucks feels off to me.
For the moment, my main, non goof around setup is a 8.25x32x14.38 AH deck with 5.5 tensor mag lights and 56 f4 conical fulls. Part of me wants to try sizing back down to a 8.06 and just keeping the same trucks and wheels and accepting the hot rod, but I'm still thinking about it.
It's really interesting how literally a few millimeters can really affect your setup. It's easy to get lost overthinking this stuff. Ive spent way too much money experimenting that now I want to chill out and just be happy with what I have.
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Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.
Yeah dude--keep the ad hominem rebuttals coming. That's how you show trolls you're the bigger man.
Emphasis on bigger. You're a fat, angry 45-year-old who used to skate. Welcome to Slap, amirite?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_advantage
"As the lever pivots on the fulcrum, points farther from this pivot move faster than points closer to the pivot. The power into and out of the lever is the same, so must come out the same when calculations are being done. Power is the product of force and velocity, so forces applied to points farther from the pivot must be less than when applied to points closer in."
The lever has been understood for seven millenia. Catch up, bro.
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I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...
Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying you're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?
Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.
[/quote]
Lol, OP got ownd. All I've seen from Zen is helpful posts, you just come across brash and childlike if people don't agree with you (hell even if they do, case in point above).
To the OP. Comparing yourselft to PS? Who are you again? Come back when you've:
Founded numerous companies
Run a Pro Team
Literally shaped the industry
Run one of the largest and most reputable woodshops in the industry
To compare yourself to him shows you don't know anything...who would trust you over him?
I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.
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Expand Quote
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...
Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying we're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?
Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.
Lol, OP got ownd. All I've seen from Zen is helpful posts, you just come across brash and childlike if people don't agree with you (hell even if they do, case in point above).
To the OP. Comparing yourselft to PS? Who are you again? Come back when you've:
Founded numerous companies
Run a Pro Team
Literally shaped the industry
Run one of the largest and most reputable woodshops in the industry
To compare yourself to him shows you don't know anything...who would trust you over him?
I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.
[/quote]
Hi xen
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I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
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I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
Weird, I've had one PS board delam badly on me out of the past twenty, the rest barely a chip. My last three BBS all delaminated really fast, (like yourself, under three hours) and were heavy and lost their pop much faster than PS. One of them even had a huge chunk missing from a middle ply, and the layers of ply either side just pressed into the gap before lamination. Quality control at PS is much higher in my experience.
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Last two PS stix I got (Toy Machine - Provost and Free Dome - Rowley) have a pattern of scratches over the woodgrain from what seems to be a buffing machine with a piece of metal stuck in it.
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Expand Quote
I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
This is a first for me, in all my years of skating. And it will not be forgotten.
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
This is a first for me, in all my years of skating. And it will not be forgotten.
Just checking if you guys know that any form of delamination is one of the few things almost completely covered under warranty?
These are places that produce thousands of decks a day (BBS at 10,000 a day from a recent news thing) and there are bound to be some problems with some of the decks, so anything that comes under manufacturing issues is grounds for replacement.
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...
Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying we're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?
Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.
Lol, OP got ownd. All I've seen from Zen is helpful posts, you just come across brash and childlike if people don't agree with you (hell even if they do, case in point above).
To the OP. Comparing yourselft to PS? Who are you again? Come back when you've:
Founded numerous companies
Run a Pro Team
Literally shaped the industry
Run one of the largest and most reputable woodshops in the industry
To compare yourself to him shows you don't know anything...who would trust you over him?
I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.
Hi xen
[/quote]
Nope, I did fuck up the quote tho. /shrug
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TooManyPros is absolutely Xen.
They always log off within 3 min of each other. Xen always comments on TMP's threads, usually the same day (TMP makes a sus thread asking about gear preferences, never volunteering his own--then Xen chimes in eight hours later with his setup). They both have made posts swearing by Ace bushings.
It has been fascinating watching this guy first try to gatekeep me out of this thread, then pretend it's all in good fun, then in the same day explode with indignation about how much longer he's been skating than me, then run to his secret alt account to post some dreadful word salad with intentional misspellings designed to make it seem like he's two different people, then deny it when people start to catch on--without ever offering a single cogent point on the matter at hand besides "I've been skating a long time."
Get a fucking tailor...you off the shelf heathens.
^The great gatekeeper Xen's thoughts on cuffing pants. Nothing but helpful, this "Zen."
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TooManyPros is absolutely Xen.
They always log off within 3 min of each other. Xen always comments on TMP's threads, usually the same day (TMP makes a sus thread asking about gear preferences, never volunteering his own--then Xen chimes in eight hours later with his setup). They both have made posts swearing by Ace bushings.
It has been fascinating watching this guy first try to gatekeep me out of this thread, then pretend it's all in good fun, then in the same day explode with indignation about how much longer he's been skating than me, then run to his secret alt account to post some dreadful word salad with intentional misspellings designed to make it seem like he's two different people, then deny it when people start to catch on--without ever offering a single cogent point on the matter at hand besides "I've been skating a long time."
Expand Quote
Get a fucking tailor...you off the shelf heathens.
^The great gatekeeper Xen's thoughts on cuffing pants. Nothing but helpful, this "Zen."
This is a bigger scandal than my board de-lamination.
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Homie. You can't make this shit up.
(https://i.imgur.com/BAv5CO1.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/ViC2Xn4.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/1RMr8Zk.gif)
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I meeeeeaaannnn..... it’s probably just a coincidence. But I do love me a nutty conspiracy theory so I’ll drink the kool aid.
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I have a confession: I'm one of Xen's secret alt accounts too.
God, it feels good to get that out in the air.
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Them: how are you feelin
Me: zen
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Them: how are you feelin
Me: zXen
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I'm the xoflipxo of this thread.
Xen-TMP is the Ed Lawndale who's overplayed his hand.
Slap's first double-focus?
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I'm the xoflipxo of this thread.
Xen-TMP is the Ed Lawndale who's overplayed his hand.
Slap's first double-focus?
Hold on, Sheets... before you go comparing yourself to Yung Flip, tell us how many thou$and$ you can make bar-backing in one night.
Welcome back, BTW. :-X ;) 8)
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tell us how many thou$and$ you can make bar-backing in one night.
Hey now. Flip exhibited a boundless entrepreneurial creativity. A true exemplar of today's gig-economy.
Shut up you Virgin Fuck for I take your Ugly ass thot and Put her on the blade and have her bring home my money
good try tho let me know what song you have that’s passed 100k
Diverse income streams are not on no NUT shit
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Expand Quote
tell us how many thou$and$ you can make bar-backing in one night.
Hey now. Flip exhibited a boundless entrepreneurial creativity. A true exemplar of today's gig-economy.
Expand Quote
Shut up you Virgin Fuck for I take your Ugly ass thot and Put her on the blade and have her bring home my money
Expand Quote
good try tho let me know what song you have that’s passed 100k
Diverse income streams are not on no NUT shit
Settle down Bo
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He's my hero. His turning of the forum against that cornball Ed was a true David and Goliath moment. We need more of that around here.
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Who is who? My two cents is save the drama for other boards and keep it professional on shoes and gear. Not super interested in reading arguments about burner accounts, I came here to LEARN dammit! My monkey brain likes to know what to expect.
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My right ear has been blocked since last night and it's really annoying, but I'm looking forward to reading all the responses here once it clears up.
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(https://i.imgur.com/IMD7HER.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/31BZ8Vu.gif)
Just wow.
I believe yesterday was the first day in years that neither Xen nor TMP made a post.
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Where's LPQ when you need him?
Causing Mud: The Gear Forum Bully Revealed
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TooManyXens: How Slap's Top Kook Fell From Grace
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Xen of Slap: Where Are His Titanium Indies Now?
Just spitballing here, LPQ. Name the thread whatever you like.
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Expand Quote
I'm the xoflipxo of this thread.
Xen-TMP is the Ed Lawndale who's overplayed his hand.
Slap's first double-focus?
Welcome back, BTW. :-X ;) 8)
I'm in the bay for a couple of weeks and walked past the Create store the other day and started laughing thinking about that thread. Was thinking about trying to explain it to my girl but thought better of it.
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Xen of Slap: Where Are His Titanium Indies Now?
Just spitballing here, LPQ. Name the thread whatever you like.
I say this as someone who spends an inordinate amount of time here:
Get a life.
-
I do find it weird that neither of them have come in here to respond though.....
Til then I will sit patiently and wait for the Nexpo or Barely Sociable YouTube video on this, which I’m sure is the works as we speak.
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Expand Quote
Xen of Slap: Where Are His Titanium Indies Now?
Just spitballing here, LPQ. Name the thread whatever you like.
I say this as someone who spends an inordinate amount of time here:
Get a life.
My Ti Indies are on ice, skating Thunder/venture as I've only been hitting ledges these days no bowls/parks.
Also:
https://youtu.be/B0Tyk4rj3hs?t=485
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Expand Quote
Xen of Slap: Where Are His Titanium Indies Now?
Just spitballing here, LPQ. Name the thread whatever you like.
I say this as someone who spends an inordinate amount of time here:
Get a life.
no doubt. would rather spend time on anything instead of pulling a Magnum PI on someone's log ins and post history.
spend time like, i don't know, skateboarding....
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I say this as someone who spends an inordinate amount of time here:
Get a life.
Thanks man, your “contributions” in this thread have been invaluable. Xen-TMP can’t nanny the whole gear forum on his own. He needs dick-suckers like you to hold it down
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Expand Quote
I say this as someone who spends an inordinate amount of time here:
Get a life.
Thanks man, your “contributions” in this thread have been invaluable. Xen-TMP can’t nanny the whole gear forum on his own. He needs dick-suckers like you to hold it down
This dude has so many friends, I can feel it. I've interacted with Xen once and could give a fuck less about multiple accounts. But you can call that dick sucking if you want.
I wish you were even somewhat likeable so I can put to good use the knowledge you've shared, but now every time I pick out a board I'll be reminded of that one asshole who starts fights over wheelbase and triple posts when nobody responds.
I'm respectfully ignoring you and your desperate pleading for the attention you are so starved for. Good luck!
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lol. You’ve made an average of six posts EVERY DAY since November.
Go back and re-read the thread boss. I didn’t start the fight with Xen. He did
Edit: Christ, that's an average of a post every two and half hours of EVERY DAY of your waking life. For the last three months. Like what the actual FUCK
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I love how this thread has evolved since Adam first invited discussion.
At present, it resembles a dick swinging contest with only one entrant.
That’s not to say I haven’t learned anything. The “leverage triangle” is a cool way of visualizing relationships between different trucks. Also, I realized that if your Skate IQ is high enough, you can utilize your understanding of truck geometry to pull off flatground 720 ollies.
Shalom.
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Also, I realized that if your Skate IQ is high enough, you can utilize your understanding of truck geometry to pull off flatground 720 ollies.
Shalom.
I realize this is a tongue-in-cheek reference to cheetahsheets, to whom you've already compared me.
But I have to point out that Xen is the only poster in here using his supposed superior skate prowess to try to win arguments. Urtripping is the one hypocritically accusing me of having no life, after having picked a fight with me over and over. These are the guys measuring dicks, not me.
MY e-peen has been entirely fact-based from the very beginning. Not one poster has seen fit to debate me on those merits. All I see are a bunch of threatened pooseys. Shalom.
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Expand Quote
Also, I realized that if your Skate IQ is high enough, you can utilize your understanding of truck geometry to pull off flatground 720 ollies.
Shalom.
I realize this is a tongue-in-cheek reference to cheetahsheets, to whom you've already compared me.
But I have to point out that Xen is the only poster in here using his supposed superior skate prowess to try to win arguments. Urtripping is the one hypocritically accusing me of having no life, after having picked a fight with me over and over. These are the guys measuring dicks, not me.
MY e-peen has been entirely fact-based from the very beginning. Not one poster has seen fit to debate me on those merits. All I see are a bunch of threatened pooseys. Shalom.
you are doing great buddy. proud of you
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you are doing great buddy. proud of you
I’m just getting started, playa. These pooseys have no idea what I’m made of.
So we’re really giving Xen a pass for pulling the ultimate boomer move and pretending to be two people to win an internet argument that he instigated? Man, I knew this place was wild, but this is next-level.
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Expand Quote
you are doing great buddy. proud of you
I’m just getting started, playa. These pooseys have no idea what I’m made of.
So we’re really giving Xen a pass for pulling the ultimate boomer move and pretending to be two people to win an internet argument that he instigated? Man, I knew this place was wild, but this is next-level.
Couldn't help myself
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/711x474/https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f295867a3f3b4fe4109fa0d/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
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Good job on de-railing a thread that had a lot of potential
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:-X
Couldn't help myself
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/711x474/https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f295867a3f3b4fe4109fa0d/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
Good to have you back, Mr. Virtue Signal!
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My current, this week’s, best results have come from: 7.98x14x31.3, 139 hollows, 52 classics. This board is weird as hell, but perfect. My guess is that it is old pgi, really old. Good pop, nice and flat, looks kind of like the crail 8.125 that mj and guy would talk about from a few years back. Just narrower.
The other setup that feels good is 8x14x31.5 stangelove, ace 33s, 53 conical fulls.
I’m tempted to try and seek out boards with less than 14 wb. Nostalgia and skateboard politics steer me towards ventures, I setup an ancient 7.75 and 5.0 hi’s, and even tho the wb was 14, the length 31.5, everything felt bad. Lots of rocket, just wack. The other tempting thing to do is get some ace 22s/129s. Short wb + ace/Indy is working for me, I have short legs. Trucks that size look pretty weird....
I think my current ideals would 7.75-8x14 wb, or less,x31.25ish, PS Stix is my fave, but the dimensions seem to more important rn. Over 31.5 isn’t my favorite, 31 length feels jacked. I’m not sure if I should be happy narrowing things down like this, feels very precious for someone with such limited skill. Oh yes, trucks are still a back and forth currently ace/Indy, with the next struggle between 22s vs 33s. 52 mm classics seem to be the most familiar, less weird about wheels.
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Good job on de-railing a thread that had a lot of potential
I agree! They did.
All they had to do was actually respond to my points, rather than make this whole thread about my personality. I would have been happy to stick to the discussion.
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Well I need to measure my shoulder width.
And also, axle to axle wheelbase and how it varies between board and trucks is the end game for sure. The variables with pop are the angles of the tail/fingers of flat/truck axle closer or further away to that start angle
Find that you have to take the average between toe and heel side of axle measurements. They typically aren’t the same due to bushings
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I’m tempted to try and seek out boards with less than 14 wb. Nostalgia and skateboard politics steer me towards ventures, I setup an ancient 7.75 and 5.0 hi’s, and even tho the wb was 14, the length 31.5, everything felt bad. Lots of rocket, just wack. The other tempting thing to do is get some ace 22s/129s. Short wb + ace/Indy is working for me, I have short legs. Trucks that size look pretty weird....
Yeah man, wheelbase around 14 or right under with Ace/Indy is my zone, despite Ben's insistence that this is not "Goldilocks" enough.
It can be hard to find that sub-14 wheelbase board. It seems like something a lot of people are interested in. off just made a thread about wider boards with 14 wheelbases. Mbrinson88 just posted about a grip of Real boards with short wheelbases, including a 7.75x29.5x13" (!): https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=113159.msg3495059#msg3495059
Welcome's bunyip shape (PS) is 7.75 with a 13.75 wheelbase. I tried this, but didn't like the kick pockets. I like a lot of flat.
I'm really into DSM right now. Enjoi, Almost, and Blind all make a 7.75 with 13.9 wheelbase and lots of flat. That's what I'm riding now. I prefer the mellow concave.
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Find that you have to take the average between toe and heel side of axle measurements. They typically aren’t the same due to bushings
This guy fucks with measurements. Yes, absolutely.
Incidentally, everyone’s trucks get lower AND their wheelbase gets slightly smaller as they tighten them or use different bushings or the original bushings squash out. I see a lot of people not accounting for this in the Truck thread
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Well I need to measure my shoulder width.
And also, axle to axle wheelbase and how it varies between board and trucks is the end game for sure. The variables with pop are the angles of the tail/fingers of flat/truck axle closer or further away to that start angle
Find that you have to take the average between toe and heel side of axle measurements. They typically aren’t the same due to bushings
My shoulder width measurements were far from precise. Reminded me somewhat of trying to self measure pbh for bicycles.
The kick angles, fingers of flat....I think I’ll try and figure that out more, once I’ve got the trucks and board width sorted.
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Expand Quote
I’m tempted to try and seek out boards with less than 14 wb. Nostalgia and skateboard politics steer me towards ventures, I setup an ancient 7.75 and 5.0 hi’s, and even tho the wb was 14, the length 31.5, everything felt bad. Lots of rocket, just wack. The other tempting thing to do is get some ace 22s/129s. Short wb + ace/Indy is working for me, I have short legs. Trucks that size look pretty weird....
Yeah man, wheelbase around 14 or right under with Ace/Indy is my zone, despite Ben's insistence that this is not "Goldilocks" enough.
It can be hard to find that sub-14 wheelbase board. It seems like something a lot of people are interested in. off just made a thread about wider boards with 14 wheelbases. Mbrinson88 just posted about a grip of Real boards with short wheelbases, including a 7.75x29.5x13" (!): https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=113159.msg3495059#msg3495059
Welcome's bunyip shape (PS) is 7.75 with a 13.75 wheelbase. I tried this, but didn't like the kick pockets. I like a lot of flat.
I'm really into DSM right now. Enjoi, Almost, and Blind all make a 7.75 with 13.9 wheelbase and lots of flat. That's what I'm riding now. I prefer the mellow concave.
Not that he clearly articulated this, in my mind, but I’m assuming Degros’ ‘Goldilocks zone’ means for him. And he’s tall. If things were proportional, I’d be skating an incredibly small board, what with him being 6’ plus and long legged, me 5’8” short stumps.
I can’t skate welcomes, the one I had the shape was gibberish, worst tail ever, and then the whole lameness of the owner....do love the ps tho so thanks for the idea.
I’ll keep the dsm stuff in mind. The next I’m looking at is: doomsayers (Omar also a turd allegedly), waiting for the green eagle like a fiend, trying to find the 7.875 crail board, crying into my pillow
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trying to find the 7.875 crail board, crying into my pillow
The G21? I rode that a couple times. I actually became fully obsessed for a while with the slightly smaller version, the G009. It’s a 7.75 with 13.8 wheelbase (Chris Roberts shape). I rode like five of those in a row, back when it was shitty Excel wood or whatever.
So they’re PS now? Sounds hot, but my main issue is that those shapes had a full three-and-a-half fingers of flat in the kicks. It’s insane. Someone who needs a longer wheelbase than me and prefers Ventures or Thunders might love it. Because I prefer Ace/Indy, it’s too much for me, even though the wheelbase was essentially perfect with those trucks. I don’t know if the molds now are the same.
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Couldn't help myself
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/711x474/https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f295867a3f3b4fe4109fa0d/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
Good to have you back, Mr. Virtue Signal!
This is everybody's favorite term in 2020 2021, too bad it's so often conflated with people asking others to not be dicks.
I had to stop ignoring you because I was reading all of your posts anyway... damn if you aren't knowledgeable and helpful. I may not like you... but at least your ideas are on point/useful (something I have been clear about from the start).
Please keep dropping knowledge and Post a Damn Fit, Fuccboi (I have a feeling it'll look something like this)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFPIE6vtyQu9hJ1qtOCEDfP0O0I9NJ9f2mag&usqp=CAU)
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I had to stop ignoring you because I was reading all of your posts anyway... damn if you aren't knowledgeable and helpful. I may not like you... but at least your ideas are on point/useful (something I have been clear about from the start).
You aren't the first to begrudgingly fuck with me, and you won't be the last. Just ask my exes.
Xen still owes me an apology, which I know I will never receive
Post a Damn Fit, Fuccboi (I have a feeling it'll look something like this)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFPIE6vtyQu9hJ1qtOCEDfP0O0I9NJ9f2mag&usqp=CAU)
Haha! I'll drop something in the "Post a Fit" thread, in due time.
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Expand Quote
I’m tempted to try and seek out boards with less than 14 wb. Nostalgia and skateboard politics steer me towards ventures, I setup an ancient 7.75 and 5.0 hi’s, and even tho the wb was 14, the length 31.5, everything felt bad. Lots of rocket, just wack. The other tempting thing to do is get some ace 22s/129s. Short wb + ace/Indy is working for me, I have short legs. Trucks that size look pretty weird....
Yeah man, wheelbase around 14 or right under with Ace/Indy is my zone, despite Ben's insistence that this is not "Goldilocks" enough.
It can be hard to find that sub-14 wheelbase board. It seems like something a lot of people are interested in. off just made a thread about wider boards with 14 wheelbases. Mbrinson88 just posted about a grip of Real boards with short wheelbases, including a 7.75x29.5x13" (!): https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=113159.msg3495059#msg3495059
Welcome's bunyip shape (PS) is 7.75 with a 13.75 wheelbase. I tried this, but didn't like the kick pockets. I like a lot of flat.
I'm really into DSM right now. Enjoi, Almost, and Blind all make a 7.75 with 13.9 wheelbase and lots of flat. That's what I'm riding now. I prefer the mellow concave.
It is definitely weird how some of those boards go up and down in wheelbase and length, especially the 8 and the 8.5 sizes, but I guess I am not complaining as I ride the 8.38 being the longest of all those.
The 8.18 shorty is maybe the best for those who want to ride a shorter board and that tiny bit of width actually makes the board a lot better in shape overall, especially considering the 8 is 14.38 wheelbase, when I would think a 14 to 14.25 would be more what is needed.
Classic Oval on R1 Construction
Orange 7.5 " x 29 " 12.75 " WB
Silver 7.75 " x 29.5 " 13 " WB
Yellow 8.06 " x 31.8 " 14.38 " WB
Red 8.12 " x 31.38 " 14 " WB
Black 8.25 " x 32 " 14.38 " WB
White 8.38 " x 32.25 " 14.5 " WB
Blue 8.5 " x 31.8 " 14.25 " WB
The Woodshop thread has a lot of good info too:
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=108595.0