Author Topic: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros  (Read 7997 times)

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Madam, I'm Adam

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2021, 03:47:55 PM »
Can't tell if joking, but i'm not talking about the pants my guy.
Think of your legs as the arms of a drawing compass (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71WYzz1exSL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

The longer the arms of the compass, the larger the circle you can draw with it.  A longer inseam measurement means your legs are longer and will be able to reach the end of the board for flip tricks easier (theoretically) than someone with your same height but shorter legs.

I actually was thinking pants, thanks for setting it straight haha.

You absolutely belong here, but the fact that two people felt a bit out off by the tone of your post should probably tell you more about your phrasing than the good folks of Slap. Leading with the statement that Degros and op don't understand wheelbase doesn't you up to be heard (for the record, I DID hear you, though) by people interested in his videos. Again, you make good points, very good ones, you just sounded like a know it all at multiple points. I'm not hurt, I'm just letting you know as a friend...

Also, I got your kook joke and didn't think that was an example of condescension.

Yeah, all of this ^. @Post A Fit Fuccboi I appreciate the response. And yeah, as you said it is an aggressively kooky first post, but at least you're aware of it. I'm glad you're bringing forth the idea of rotational leverage and shoulder width into the picture because that's something I hadn't considered.

Also, please create this post that you talk about:

Well, as OP's post points out in various ways, pop characteristics are dependent on basically every measurement: particularly fingers of flat/truck combo, but also height, wheelbase, weight, and even--in the case of flipping and rotating--wheel contact patch and their placements in relation to the board concave. That is going to require another post to address. 

Post A Fit Fuccboi

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2021, 05:02:09 PM »
as you said it is an aggressively kooky first post, but at least you're aware of it.

I came in a little hot. Three people have commented on that now, in different ways. ;D

I have no excuse other than to say I expected to be clowned and maybe was pre-emptively defensive.

Ironically, Schmitt rubbed lots of posters here the wrong way with his Nine Club episode because of a perceived similar attitude.

I definitely have more in common with the Professor than with your average skater. Including his good intentions.

Also, please create this post that you talk about

I have some theories about pop, which I alluded to. But I'm less sure about the specifics. Pop is complicated. I don't know if I'm ready to share those ideas yet. Bet y'all will be the first to know.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 05:14:06 PM by Post A Fit Fuccboi »
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RichardBarkley

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2021, 05:23:57 PM »
All good dog. I’ve read this forum for years. I fully understand the “tone” that is appropriate and I fully expected to be clowned and have to defend my personal qualities over a post like this.

You seem like a dick head that knows his shit. You will fit in here.

I also think you have a point. Particularly with how your shoulders relates to wb.
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Post A Fit Fuccboi

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2021, 05:30:57 PM »
You seem like a dick head that knows his shit.

That’s why I compared myself to Schmitt. That guy wouldn’t even be considered smart if he talked to anyone other than skaters.

Even the people who were on my side b4 are gonna be pissed I wrote this one
I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.

Eric Dolphy

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2021, 05:56:04 PM »
That’s why I compared myself to Schmitt. That guy wouldn’t even be considered smart if he talked to anyone other than skaters.
nanotubes

Xen

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2021, 07:43:34 PM »
Bro-Science be damned, there is science and math at play here, physics and geometry for starters, anyone that doesn't believe in it...well the earth is also ROUND.

Shoulder width / stance width I believe are indeed conjoined in some fashion 'feet shoulders width apart' for example.

Thing is, you can step on a setup and instantly know it's too short or too long when it comes to dic...er deck length and wheelbase...there also has to be a reason why the industry standard wheelbase is fourteen point fucking two five...does that coincide with the average male height of 5.7" <Aliens>

As far as Fingers of Fucking Flat...I'm not sure about the 'finesse' bit does the Proff. mean tricks? Style? What? The ability to 'finesse' the ollie for more more pop?

What I can say is that a steep, right after the bolts kick is more powerful for ollies IF you have pop. By pop I mean a quick snap, mellow long kicks are not big pop providers IMO.

Foot distance apart in conjunction with board length for ollies...shit will make you go mad...everyone is totally unique to what feels right, loose, tight, flat, deep, steep, full, pointy, mellow, standards, lows, 101, 99, shaped, stable, carvey, on and on and on...that said, I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.

Post A Fit Fuccboi

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2021, 08:13:31 PM »
What I can say is that a steep, right after the bolts kick is more powerful for ollies IF you have pop. By pop I mean a quick snap

Respectfully, bro, you are saying a couple of mixed-up things. I will try to rebut with no boldface and minimal punctuation so as not to attract your ridicule.

A steep, right after the bolts kick is indeed a more powerful ollie--because the board has to become more vertical before the tail connects. You can measure the angle difference yourself. Schmitt does this on the Nine Club, several times, using an app on his phone. Also, the board feels heavier with a shorter tail. The ollie takes more energy to execute because you are essentially pushing on a shorter lever handle. But when you successfully execute the pop, you are forcing all that extra energy into a taller ollie. This is good if you tend to do tall tricks, or are a tall person, or tend toward a more wound-up, higher ollie. It is therefore a SLOWER snap--not a faster one--that produces more power.

A longer tail (one with more flat) offers more "finesse" in the sense that it is a longer lever handle. A longer lever handle makes the part on the other side of the fulcrum feel lighter. Longer tails therefore give a lighter pop that also connects with the ground FASTER at a shorter, lower angle (lower "triangle"), yielding an ollie that can be more controlled in height: a possible lower pop with less energy, or a higher one IF you know how to direct more energy into your pop. Again, you can measure this angle difference if you stand on the tail. However, you also have more control over the DIRECTION of the energy with a longer tail. This means stuff like shuvs and bigspins seem lighter to spin (ie easier to control in a rotational direction, rather than an upward direction) with more fingers of flat. And finally, manuals generally are easier with a longer lever handle, which more fingers of flat give you. Hence, "finesse" is really just a layman's term for the physics concept of mechanical advantage.

However, it becomes much easier to screw up tricks by sending the energy in the wrong direction, ie rotationally when you're trying to go straight up. There can be such a thing as too much finesse, too much control, when you're trying to do a tall trick with minimal rotation, or just ollie up over something bigger than you're used to. This is why Schmitt talks about beginners needing more power and experts needing more finesse.

This is also what people mean when they refer to Ventures as a delayed pop and Ace as a fast one.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 08:46:29 PM by Post A Fit Fuccboi »
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SneakySecrets

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2021, 08:45:46 PM »
I’m going to have to take the week off so I can peruse that whole tome there.  I look forward to hopefully arguing about its contents.

When nothing in society deserves respect, we should fashion for ourselves in solitude new silent loyalties.

Ok

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2021, 08:53:46 PM »
New favorite thread.

5’8”, 165, sz 10. Inseam 30”, shoulders very approximately 16”.

Current best setup: 8” ps stix (strangelove) x14x31.5”. Ace 33s. 53 conical fulls. I haven’t measured but i think that would be an effective wb of 16.75”. The board is very flat. The tail is small. Ollie was smacking tho.

I’ve skated a lot of different things, especially over the last few years. I chase every trend. Very susceptible to trying to ride setups heavily inspired by favorite pros/nostalgia/skateboard politics/etc. Setups that I’ve had where things are ‘easier’, are often 8” or less, short, shorter wb (I don’t need to be particular on 7.75-8” stuff, but I struggle with selecting 129 vs 139 trucks on 7.75s). A perfect example of an easier setup for me was the light green eagle, 7.81, venture 5.0....hi’s, 53 ish wheels. Could do every flip that I’ve ever been able to do. Couldn’t keep skating it because it looked too fucked.

Agree that Degros and the Professor are just kind of scratching the service.
The snark is growing on me

Urtripping

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2021, 09:26:22 PM »
New favorite thread.


The snark is growing on me

Mine too honestly! Can't say I'm a big fan of fuccbois snark yet, but I have not seen more coherent explanations of how board dimensions affect performance.
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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2021, 01:15:20 AM »
That was an interesting read.

I like a longer tail otherwise my back foot tends to fall off the board, especially on blunts and tailslides.

I also like more mellow concave and kicks, because I am old and broken and my ankles don't bend well on steep kicks.

I have pretty much left most tech tricks in the old "rarely done unless completely warmed up" bag as well as being forgetful where that bag actually is most of the time, but I can still ollie over knee high when I need to, so I can see my type of board works well for my lazy ass.


The hypothesis:

Longer more mellow boards are better for me, as I prefer to keep two feet on my board and be able to walk tomorrow.

:)

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Sativa Lung

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2021, 02:49:11 AM »
So I have a pretty severe case of madness as those who have seen the woodshop, truck and setup threads already know. I feel like I've tried a pretty large swath of whats on the market and I've come to a few conclusions that hold true for me (but may not for you).

- Flatter boards are significantly less tiring to skate. This becomes more apparent the older and more out of shape you get. I would estimate that I get 20 or so more good strong pops (be they ollies or flip trick attempts) per session before my legs are cooked when I'm on a DOA flat or one of the mellow PS options vs say a hockey/FA or polar board.

- Everything listed matters, but I think the biggest factor in how much I like a deck is the angle of the kicks, particularly the tail. A steep tail can ruin a deck that's otherwise perfect, and likewise a nose that isn't steep enough will make it almost impossible for me to do anything with a toe flick. I could probably heelflip a plank, but I need that steep nose to even get close to kickflips. I can feel the difference between the most minute differences in tail angle, and once it gets to a certain point my timing goes completely out of whack and I ghost pop everything.

- Fingers of flat has more wiggle room but if its too extreme in either direction it totally ruins the deck. I recently picked up a creature cold press that has like a 6.7 tail from the truck holes but so much flat that its effectively less than 5" and its awful. I mean just putrid feeling. At the other end of the spectrum I find a lot of BBS decks that have very little flat and that little dip down scoop thing to be very difficult to skate.

- I used to think wheelbase was the most important thing but the more decks I've skated I've grown to think about it less. As long as its between 14-14.5 and the tail angle is good I can adjust pretty quickly. Shorter wb does make tre flips a little easier, but once i got over my madness and skated a few 14.4/14.5 wb  decks I was surprised at how quickly I could adapt. Over 14.5 is impossible for me though, I think because I have a very upright stance and spreading my legs out too much feels super awkward

- Finally, the thing I think people overlook way too much is length. Length is almost as important as kick angle to me, and I think its actually more important than width. Again because of my upright stance and being old and not as flexible, I need a shorter board so my legs don't have to move as far. 31.6 seems to be my sweet spot, but I can drop down close to 31 without much problem, but can only go up to about 31.8. I've tried to skate a fair share of 32" or longer boards but I cant really think of any that I've liked.

Post A Fit Fuccboi

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2021, 04:43:20 AM »
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...

I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.

I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2021, 08:06:56 AM »
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...

Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
[close]

I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something


PAFF if you are looking to be roasted.... I don’t think Degros weighs ‘literally’ #230, and several of your ideas have been expressed on ‘skateboarding is my lifetime sport’ in 2012ish: shoulders to effective wheelbase, board length hip to ankle, board width to heel ball of foot. I, personally, like the shit talking, and feel like it is somewhat tongue in cheek.

I welcome the theories about board/equipment fit. For me personally, I’ll have an idea, say 14” wb, and find that to be a working guideline for awhile, and then later have that upset by new information. I have skated well on several boards that had a 14” wb, that were flat/mellow, with ace trucks. Which would be the smallest effective wb I’m reasonably able to get. I have a very difficult time skating my Jovontae reissue, 7.5x14x31, or an old fa, 8x14x31. I don’t have ace 22s, maybe the that’d work, but those boards already feel pretty small and squirrelly, if they were wider the length would be fine. 360 flips are a really volatile trick for me, shit needs to be just right....for me to have them work, these days, despite formerly being a go to, and yet I have a 9x14.75x33” board on 159s and the rotations for the 3flips are great. What I’m trying to say is all I know is that I don’t know.

The ‘Goldilocks’ zone always sounds like gibberish. Degros is over 6’, I’m 5’8”, there isn’t a proportional leap in sizes. I also enjoy boards the same size as PAFF, yet I’m 5” taller, 50# heavier.

The flexibility that BFRD was talking about, plus tail length/angles definitely play factors. I think the surface is being scratched, but as far as hard numbers, board fit is wide open

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2021, 11:01:31 AM »
I agree with BFRD that Kicks matter more (to me at least) than WB.

specifically, the triangle of leverage...think of a triangle that goes from the tip of your tail to the ground, from that point to the center of your axle, and then front the center of your axle, back to the tip of the tail). That is in part dictated by the angle of the kicks of your board, and then further manipulated by the height and axle placement of your trucks and the size of your wheels. That's going to control how your board pops, but also the angle and length of the nose/tail dictate how your board flicks, and that isn't something you can change with trucks.

The triangle also interacts with your WB, and an axle to axle WB of 17" on two different boards is going to behave and feel different if your triangle of leverage is different on each setup. So I guess my point is that talking about one without the other feels a little pointless.

Also I think the triangle and WB interaction has way more to do with how heavy a board feels than hoe much your trucks weigh (a lot of times people are splitting hairs on pocket change weight with the forged/hollow/ti thing).

foureyedjim

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2021, 03:51:23 PM »
Even though the thread is technically about board dimensions, I'd like to throw out another thought.

What kind of shoes are y'all rocking?  I'm talking the midsole specifically.
Personally, if I'm doing flip tricks, the midsole of the shoe MUST be as flush with the upper as possible.  It's very disorienting when fat cupsole shoes stick out so much I have no idea when my shoe is going to finish flicking the board. 

It's honestly not so obvious unless you really look closely at the toe

Perfect:


Not so good:

Urtripping

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2021, 04:43:58 PM »
I get what you're saying, Jim. My first session in some dunk his last summer was a bit like learning to kickflip all over again because I switched from bruins, which have very different toeboxes.

Lately I've been going back and forth between a pair of NB 440 highs and a pair of Jordan 1's. Though they're both cups, they definitely have different toe construction, with the J's having a less flush midsole and the NB's midsole much more flush with the toe on the upper.

The flick is different, but for me it just takes a few minutes of trial and error to get used to it. You gotta consider though that I have been skating 1's for months and that lately I've been switching consistently every few sessions between my current pair and these NB's, AND that I do a lot of kickflips, so I'm very accustomed to how flickingfeels in both shoes.

At any rate, switching to a new shoe will require some getting used to (especially with flip tricks) and in some cases, at least in my experience, it just doesn't work out. Going back to Adam's idea about skating a thicker vulc with his ideal setup, I tend to find that happy medium by skating thinner cups. I can't imagine skating vulcs anymore, even halfcabs... Skating in cups just feels so much safer, secure, and stable. I don't know if I've ever thought about how vulcs/cups pair with steep/flat concave, though. That relationship seems unexplored.

Edit: Also those shoes with big bumper midsoles that stick out past the toe start to feel a lot better after the rubber is worn down, suggesting that a thinner/more flush midsole to begin with might just lend itself better to flicking right out the box. You sacrifice durability, though!

Another one: I wonder if you're also feeling the difference in the height of the toe above the midsole? Maybe this is what you were talking about in the first place when you mentioned the midsole being flush.

Tall/not flush


Short/flush
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 05:40:56 PM by Urtripping »
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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2021, 05:08:03 PM »
From what I’ve gathered in my research with gear madness my preferred setup for my size I’m 6’2” size l2” shoes 205lbs board’s are usually 8.25” smallest I ride to 8.5” 14&1/2” wb.

 I like a mellow to flat concave with a little wider trucks then my board for stability and reassurance.

Since watching Ben’s video on truck geometry and other nerdy stuff I’ve found my perfect setup.

If you have a short wheelbase get Thunders or Ventures if you’ve got a wide wheelbase get an Indy or Ace. I find the kicks don’t really matter to me IMO but that’s just me though.
Dueces Bitch's

foureyedjim

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2021, 07:15:16 PM »
Edit: Also those shoes with big bumper midsoles that stick out past the toe start to feel a lot better after the rubber is worn down, suggesting that a thinner/more flush midsole to begin with might just lend itself better to flicking right out the box. You sacrifice durability, though!

Another one: I wonder if you're also feeling the difference in the height of the toe above the midsole? Maybe this is what you were talking about in the first place when you mentioned the midsole being flush.

Tall/not flush


Short/flush


Hm, I don't think I really flick with that part of my shoe. 
Like, switching from GT blazers back to regular blazers is always a trip and my kickflips suffer from it. It takes a long while before the mid sole wears down to what I like so I stopped skating them.  Good shoes for transition tho, a la lance mountain.

Xen

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2021, 09:56:46 PM »
Snip personal opinion

Can't believe I am taking the bait, but it's a slow night.

I've been ollie'ing higher than you, faster than you, and over greater distances than you, longer than you've been alive.

Brute force ollies, zero finesse. My snap/pop is really, really fast. I can oliie higher/easier on steep kicks with no fingers of flat with less effort compared to long kicks more fingers. Why? Habit. I chalk it up to the 80s, skating H-Street tails with no nose to catch and lift/guide the ollie. I learned on Vision Gonz decks (mellow) and perfected my method on H-Street Ron Allen decks. Steeper than you've ever stepped on.

And as such, with steep kicks I can rocket and suck my back foot up wicked fast to clear shit (I'm also going fast to lessen the time it takes to clear the object). If you go fast you need to ollie fast or shit goes wrong fast. Quick snap, suck up the back leg, stay over your board and let speed guide you over.

With mellow kicks I have to take my time, can't rocket - I need to 'plan', I can't go as fast, I need to level out more: bone the ollies out with my front foot, dip down, hoist the back leg up in order to clear. This is slower for me. <--- for me, son.

This is why I said it's up to the person and what feels right. You are putting too much science into the gear and not accounting for the person at the wheel.

"Rotationally"? W T actual F are you talking about? I'm talking ollies here now you are covering your ass with bigspins. Stay focused kiddo.

I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...

Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
[close]

I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something

Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying we're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?

Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2021, 11:35:56 PM »
With mellow kicks I have to take my time, can't rocket - I need to 'plan', I can't go as fast, I need to level out more: bone the ollies out with my front foot, dip down, hoist the back leg up in order to clear. This is slower for me.
i cant vibe with mellow kicks for this exact reason, well put. its really "just jump" with steep kicks and feels more natural. lose all my power with mellow tails and it feels gross 90% of the time

I've been ollie'ing higher than you, faster than you, and over greater distances than you, longer than you've been alive.
who can clear the most boards??? post vids
while cool-guying is a real phenomenon, studies show that 83% of all cool-guying incidents can be attributed to the cool-guyee being an awkward weirdo

FatGuy92

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2021, 12:06:47 AM »
I'm 5'5" and am broad shouldered and chested and have short legs. Even at my "thinnest" (which isn't thin, I've always been a heavy dude), I was like 135lbs with a 39/40" chest. I would ideally like an 8x31.5/75 with a 14.38ish wheelbase. The DLX 8.06 comes very close to this, but I also prefer bigger wheels (54-56mm) and having fat wheels on smaller trucks feels off to me.

For the moment, my main, non goof around setup is a 8.25x32x14.38 AH deck with 5.5 tensor mag lights and 56 f4 conical fulls. Part of me wants to try sizing back down to a 8.06 and just keeping the same trucks and wheels and accepting the hot rod, but I'm still thinking about it.

It's really interesting how literally a few millimeters can really affect your setup. It's easy to get lost overthinking this stuff. Ive spent way too much money experimenting that now I want to chill out and just be happy with what I have.

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2021, 04:13:58 AM »
Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.

Yeah dude--keep the ad hominem rebuttals coming. That's how you show trolls you're the bigger man.

Emphasis on bigger. You're a fat, angry 45-year-old who used to skate. Welcome to Slap, amirite?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_advantage

"As the lever pivots on the fulcrum, points farther from this pivot move faster than points closer to the pivot. The power into and out of the lever is the same, so must come out the same when calculations are being done. Power is the product of force and velocity, so forces applied to points farther from the pivot must be less than when applied to points closer in."

The lever has been understood for seven millenia. Catch up, bro.
I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.

TooManyPros

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2021, 08:36:31 AM »
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...

Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
[close]

I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something

Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying you're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?

Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.
[/quote]

Lol, OP got ownd. All I've seen from Zen is helpful posts, you just come across brash and childlike if people don't agree with you (hell even if they do, case in point above).

To the OP. Comparing yourselft to PS? Who are you again? Come back when you've:

Founded numerous companies
Run a Pro Team
Literally shaped the industry
Run one of the largest and most reputable woodshops in the industry

To compare yourself to him shows you don't know anything...who would trust you over him?

I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 06:37:59 PM by TooManyPros »

Ok

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2021, 09:16:17 AM »
Expand Quote
I seemed to imply in my first post that Ben should be riding an effective wheelbase 3" longer than mine. Which seems insane now that I read it. Surprised no one called me on it. The real # can't be that big...

Expand Quote
I do agree with Degros regarding the right tool for the application....bowls vs. ledges, flat vs. gaps, etc. You do need to take into account the shit you do.
[close]

I actually agree with this, but I refused to acknowledge it yday because Xen is clearly one of those guys who acts like the smartest guy in the room until an actual smart guy shows up, then he gets all threatened and tries to reassert dominance rather than actually learn something
[close]

Pot, kettle, black. O.K, wait, hang on, you agree with it, but didn't want to acknowledge it because it would make you look less...smart? Are you saying we're both not...smart? Agreeing with someone you disagree with, who, in your mind is trying to reassert dominance implies that you've somehow beaten or surpassed me in some way, that I was proven wrong? When did that happen? Was this something you were going for?

Your [lack of] ability at trolling is something Tracer should come back for inorder to put you in your place.

Lol, OP got ownd. All I've seen from Zen is helpful posts, you just come across brash and childlike if people don't agree with you (hell even if they do, case in point above).

To the OP. Comparing yourselft to PS? Who are you again? Come back when you've:

Founded numerous companies
Run a Pro Team
Literally shaped the industry
Run one of the largest and most reputable woodshops in the industry

To compare yourself to him shows you don't know anything...who would trust you over him?

I'll give you one thing, you got half your name right.
[/quote]

Hi xen

Croquet temper

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2021, 10:29:49 AM »
I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.

Eric Dolphy

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2021, 11:21:46 AM »
I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
Weird, I've had one PS board delam badly on me out of the past twenty, the rest barely a chip. My last three BBS all delaminated really fast, (like yourself, under three hours) and were heavy and lost their pop much faster than PS. One of them even had a huge chunk missing from a middle ply, and the layers of ply either side just pressed into the gap before lamination. Quality control at PS is much higher in my experience.

Firebert

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2021, 12:47:25 PM »
Last two PS stix I got (Toy Machine - Provost and Free Dome - Rowley) have a pattern of scratches over the woodgrain from what seems to be a buffing machine with a piece of metal stuck in it.

Croquet temper

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2021, 01:06:29 PM »
Expand Quote
I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
[close]
Weird, I've had one PS board delam badly on me out of the past twenty, the rest barely a chip. My last three BBS all delaminated really fast, (like yourself, under three hours) and were heavy and lost their pop much faster than PS. One of them even had a huge chunk missing from a middle ply, and the layers of ply either side just pressed into the gap before lamination. Quality control at PS is much higher in my experience.

This is a first for me, in all my years of skating. And it will not be forgotten.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Notes on Paul Schmitt/Ben Degros
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2021, 05:06:48 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I’m sure Paul Schmitt is a genius and all but I just had a Quasi delaminate after a total of three hours of light low impact skating and to me that shit is unheard of so BBS welcome me back baby.
[close]
Weird, I've had one PS board delam badly on me out of the past twenty, the rest barely a chip. My last three BBS all delaminated really fast, (like yourself, under three hours) and were heavy and lost their pop much faster than PS. One of them even had a huge chunk missing from a middle ply, and the layers of ply either side just pressed into the gap before lamination. Quality control at PS is much higher in my experience.
[close]

This is a first for me, in all my years of skating. And it will not be forgotten.

Just checking if you guys know that any form of delamination is one of the few things almost completely covered under warranty?

These are places that produce thousands of decks a day (BBS at 10,000 a day from a recent news thing) and there are bound to be some problems with some of the decks, so anything that comes under manufacturing issues is grounds for replacement.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.