some girl contest skater making a huge fuss over losing to a trans woman

[Lame_Nigga]

This isn’t that hard of a conversation. She did less cool shit, it doesn’t have to do with “men being biologically better” at sports. If I entered a contest with Rayessa I’d get stomped despite skating longer than she’s been alive. It comes down to skill and the work you put in, Taylor hasn’t put in the work she thinks she has and for that gets second place for her basic run with a spattering of tricks your dad from the 80s would get hyped on

[PatrickSkateman]

Plus, Lia Thomas placed dead last in her final race. There’s clearly not that much of a biological advantage.

If Rayssa or Nishiya Momiji competed in that same contest, this thread wouldn’t exist because Taylor and 1st place would’ve gotten smoked.

It’d be interesting to see how this competitive conundrum with trans athletes plays out in non-Western countries. Right now, it looks like it’s mainly a Western thing. I couldn’t imagine most Asian countries and definitely not any Middle Eastern countries making concessions, but I could be wrong.

[CossRooper]

I think we have all reached a consensus that Taylor whatever absolutely sucks at skating and is a wingnut Karen kook.

These threads always turn into a discussion about the underlying "principles" or whatever and a bunch of people arguing about thought experiments ("what if x happened") or hypothetical scenarios and I don't even know if that's productive at all. Honestly, I have been on the wrong side of these discussions in the past (being that dude that's like "hmmmmmm i'm not sure, lets dig into this")  and I seriously regret even putting that negative energy onto the boards and stoking these types of threads, because i feel like it's a bunch of straight dudes talking about it and it must be pretty patronizing and abrasive to read if you're an actual trans or queer person. 

But one things for sure: this Taylor situation does not deserve another sentence written about it honestly and if this thread was locked and never spoken about it again, damn i'd be hyped. she sucks and is the absolute worst possible scenario and non-issue to be discussing due to her shit attitude and horrible skating.

[aŕáâäćăĺ]

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There are plenty trans women in women sports dominating though…

[close]

I’m gonna need some citations here.
Please name any sporting category where more than one trans woman occupies a top 10 position in (current, OR past) standings.

Do not shoot the messenger:

Bloomfield High School transgender athlete Terry Miller, second from left, wins the final of the 55-meter dash over transgender athlete Andraya Yearwood, far left, and other runners in the Connecticut girls Class S indoor track meet at Hillhouse High School in New Haven, Conn., on Feb. 7, 2019

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna758

[Deputy Wendell]

apologies...fixed:

[Spectre]

[LB]

ffs piers fucking morgan.  I am outraged.

[Plan9Customs]

This isn’t that hard of a conversation. She did less cool shit, it doesn’t have to do with “men being biologically better” at sports. If I entered a contest with Rayessa I’d get stomped despite skating longer than she’s been alive. It comes down to skill and the work you put in, Taylor hasn’t put in the work she thinks she has and for that gets second place for her basic run with a spattering of tricks your dad from the 80s would get hyped on

Agree with 99% of this. I’m from the 80s and definitely not hyped on her tricks at all.

[PuffinMuffin]

Imma dingus who thinks there are no trans men in any men's professional sports, and I simp for content skaters. Notice me Tim Pool, uwu

https://www.thechrismosier.com/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/schuyler-bailar-transgender-swimmer-pride/

https://www.them.us/story/first-trans-pro-boxer-patricio-cacahuate-manuel-espn-interview

[mj23]

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Yeah I appreciate the insight, thanks. Would still be curious to hear what more trans athletes think. Sometimes people in marginalized groups actually prefer to have a space of their own. One really sad aspect of all this is that there is so much anti trans hatred and hysteria out there that it prevents a lot of trans people from feeling safe speaking up for themselves. Like how the woman who got first in this comp had to go private. That shit sucks.

[close]

Having separate events for trans people would just reify the transphobic idea that we aren't real men or women. I stand by my suggestion from earlier:

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Ok here's an elegant solution for everyone. People that don't want to compete against trans skaters can have their own 'cissy heats' and then we pelt them with rocks

[close]

Makes sense to me. Appreciate the response, hope I haven’t been bumming anyone out (unless they’re bigots… then I hope I totally bum em out  )

[Swithflip]

This isn’t that hard of a conversation. She did less cool shit, it doesn’t have to do with “men being biologically better” at sports. If I entered a contest with Rayessa I’d get stomped despite skating longer than she’s been alive. It comes down to skill and the work you put in, Taylor hasn’t put in the work she thinks she has and for that gets second place for her basic run with a spattering of tricks your dad from the 80s would get hyped on

A lot of young guys go to H 16 and do shit just for the gram. If any amateur or joe do a back lip in 16, nobody give a fuck.

Skate is more complex than do hard shit. Style, trick selection, speed, clothes all these things counts. Self compare with Rayssa is a shit argument. I can compare Rayssa with Letucia and others girls...she is the best.

[ok boomer]

When was the last time you made a huge fuss?
For me, twas the third grade spelling bee. I really wanted to win the match. I trained hard (AKA read the list of possible words, a lot). The first round was easy. Mrs. Thomas asking for words like "went" and "that". Mere child's play. Round 2, more of the same.it came down to me and Elizabeth "the Brain" Meyer. My baseball buds were cheering me on - I thought it was in the bag. Mrs Thomas gives me a word - sentence. "S E N T E N C E, sentence" I exclaimed only to get a "sit down please ". "What? I spelled it right". "No, you said S E N T E N S E", she says. "No, I didn't!". Even Elizabeth (who faced certain doom) backed me up on my reaction. The whole class did. Mrs. Thomas stood firm on her action. My first taste of injustice in this cruel world.

[fs1/2cab]

When was the last time you made a huge fuss?
For me, twas the third grade spelling bee. I really wanted to win the match. I trained hard (AKA read the list of possible words, a lot). The first round was easy. Mrs. Thomas asking for words like "went" and "that". Mere child's play. Round 2, more of the same.it came down to me and Elizabeth "the Brain" Meyer. My baseball buds were cheering me on - I thought it was in the bag. Mrs Thomas gives me a word - sentence. "S E N T E N C E, sentence" I exclaimed only to get a "sit down please ". "What? I spelled it right". "No, you said S E N T E N S E", she says. "No, I didn't!". Even Elizabeth (who faced certain doom) backed me up on my reaction. The whole class did. Mrs. Thomas stood firm on her action. My first taste of injustice in this cruel world.

Thanks for the laughs pal. You wrote that awesome.
And I am sorry, if that story makes you sad or feel uncomfortable, but it is a good story.
Stay strong out there.


The last time I made a semi huge fuss, was last week.
I got a letter from the police in my post box.
Apparently, a cop saw me, that I didn't stop my car long enough at a stop sign and had to pay 10 bucks as penalty.
But it was like 2 in the morning and I didn't see any cops around. And I always stop at stop signs, but maybe just 2 seconds to short. But no way, there was a cop around me.

[Allen.]

We should test skaters for energy drinks and thc before entering contests as well

[Urtripping]

[Lame_Nigga]

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This isn’t that hard of a conversation. She did less cool shit, it doesn’t have to do with “men being biologically better” at sports. If I entered a contest with Rayessa I’d get stomped despite skating longer than she’s been alive. It comes down to skill and the work you put in, Taylor hasn’t put in the work she thinks she has and for that gets second place for her basic run with a spattering of tricks your dad from the 80s would get hyped on

[close]

A lot of young guys go to H 16 and do shit just for the gram. If any amateur or joe do a back lip in 16, nobody give a fuck.

Skate is more complex than do hard shit. Style, trick selection, speed, clothes all these things counts. Self compare with Rayssa is a shit argument. I can compare Rayssa with Letucia and others girls...she is the best.

I don’t understand your point. Is it that style matters, because obviously, but also her style is also atrocious in comparison with any girl skater so if they were judging the contest for style and skill she should have been dead last

[diplodocus]

Anthony Pappalardo wrote a very good article on this that is worth a read.

https://anthonypappalardo.substack.com/p/goddamn-it-lets-talk-about-taylor?s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct

[realbasedgod112]

to an extent i agree that in strength-based sports there should be a separate category for trans athletes.
but having gone on that girl's instagram, she's kind of dogshit at skating. no idea how she even got second

[IpathCats]

to an extent i agree that in strength-based sports there should be a separate category for trans athletes.
but having gone on that girl's instagram, she's kind of dogshit at skating. no idea how she even got second

Why?

What is a strength based sport? Do you mean combat sports?

[cynical cow]

"trans division" thing seems to just reinforce the idea that trans people aren't ~real~ women/men/etc. Also feel like a person shouldn't have to out themselves as trans just because some fucking dweebs don't want to lose to them. It's all just weird othering bs. The solution is that if someone is afraid that a trans person might smoke them in a comp - the transphobe can sit the fuck out.

amen.

[RoaryMcTwang]

I learned from the Pappallardo article that Red Bull has a senior sports manager named Erich Dummer.

I wonder why the “women can’t really skate like men can because they’re weaker” thing (which is always implied whenever the trans “problem” pops up) is still being discussed while in another thread on the same page a 14 year old girl back lips a 16 stair handrail, various girls of similar age do fat 540s in bowls, and tiny eight year old boys do handrail NBDs. Debate over.

[Mean salto]

I learned from the Pappallardo article that Red Bull has a senior sports manager named Erich Dummer.

I wonder why the “women can’t really skate like men can because they’re weaker” thing (which is always implied whenever the trans “problem” pops up) is still being discussed while in another thread on the same page a 14 year old girl back lips a 16 stair handrail, various girls of similar age do fat 540s in bowls, and tiny eight year old boys do handrail NBDs. Debate over.

Because dumb. This threads gone 20+ pages more than necessary.

[somefucker]

to an extent i agree that in strength-based sports there should be a separate category for trans athletes.
but having gone on that girl's instagram, she's kind of dogshit at skating. no idea how she even got second

do explain

[butterballs for jerry]

I learned from the Pappallardo article that Red Bull has a senior sports manager named Erich Dummer.

I wonder why the “women can’t really skate like men can because they’re weaker” thing (which is always implied whenever the trans “problem” pops up) is still being discussed while in another thread on the same page a 14 year old girl back lips a 16 stair handrail, various girls of similar age do fat 540s in bowls, and tiny eight year old boys do handrail NBDs. Debate over.

When in the history of debates, arguments, or conversations has saying "debate over" ever actually ended a debate, argument, or conversation?  It's just going to piss people off and make them dig in to their position.

[fulltechnicalskizzy]

the thing about skating is whoever is having the most fun (with the lowest bone density) wins 

[phlap]

OK, lady, you win. No trans people are allowed to compete in anything, ever.

Oh, and the official Red Bull Genital Inspectors will need you to drop your trousers before they'll let you skate. Standard procedure.

[OldSkater]

I learned from the Pappallardo article that Red Bull has a senior sports manager named Erich Dummer.

I wonder why the “women can’t really skate like men can because they’re weaker” thing (which is always implied whenever the trans “problem” pops up) is still being discussed while in another thread on the same page a 14 year old girl back lips a 16 stair handrail, various girls of similar age do fat 540s in bowls, and tiny eight year old boys do handrail NBDs. Debate over.

I think the reason why the level of skating is higher for men, is because there are probably 50 times as many male skaters as there are female skaters.

This is a similar problem in chess, people assume female chess players are just not as good, when really its just the natural result of VASTLY more dudes playing the game, making up a bigger pool of talent to pull from.

I expect as more skaters of the other gender get into it, that gap will diminish.

[ouricecreammachineisdown]

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"trans division" thing seems to just reinforce the idea that trans people aren't ~real~ women/men/etc. Also feel like a person shouldn't have to out themselves as trans just because some fucking dweebs don't want to lose to them. It's all just weird othering bs. The solution is that if someone is afraid that a trans person might smoke them in a comp - the transphobe can sit the fuck out.

[close]

amen.

That's basically what they did with alternative skateboarding in X games. Individuals with special needs still doing their thing and competing. A lot of people are making way more out of this than it really is. Everybody is a "real" person. Nobody isn't saying that there's a reason why cisgender adult men pop their tricks higher versus female counterparts. If we can put the virtue signaling on hold for 2 seconds a lot of the bullshit would subside. Everybody is welcome to enjoy and congregate in skateboarding but competition is where more rules and restrictions involved.

[kinjjibo]

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"trans division" thing seems to just reinforce the idea that trans people aren't ~real~ women/men/etc. Also feel like a person shouldn't have to out themselves as trans just because some fucking dweebs don't want to lose to them. It's all just weird othering bs. The solution is that if someone is afraid that a trans person might smoke them in a comp - the transphobe can sit the fuck out.

[close]

amen.

[close]

That's basically what they did with alternative skateboarding in X games. Individuals with special needs still doing their thing and competing. A lot of people are making way more out of this than it really is. Everybody is a "real" person. Nobody isn't saying that there's a reason why cisgender adult men pop their tricks higher versus female counterparts. If we can put the virtue signaling on hold for 2 seconds a lot of the bullshit would subside. Everybody is welcome to enjoy and congregate in skateboarding but competition is where more rules and restrictions involved.

You're right. I suggest we have separate divisions not just for dividing cis and trans people, but also for height, weight, shoe size, hair length, deck size, years you've been skating, the number of boards you can ollie, maybe even a division where everyone that has the same best trick can compete against each other. We need to have rules and restrictions like you said. How good you are is irrelevant. We have to make sure it's a completely level playing field for every skateboarder because we don't want to have someone who can pop higher than someone else being called out online by someone with less pop.

[aŕáâäćăĺ]

Pants size division would be kind of sick though.