KADER is a TRAITOR (change my mind)

[Burt Ward]

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White people get really upset when young black men try and better their situation.

[close]

Nah nah nah gonna stop you right there. Were not playing the fucking race card just because no one else has yet...Sorry not sorry.

[close]

Interesting. It's not really all that different than the NBA. They put rules in place to "force" young black men to go to college before going to the NBA and getting potentially big money contracts, in the name of what exactly? In baseball, a much more "white" sport, one can and often does enter the professional ranks immediately out of high school. Same with hockey. Why is that? Why is it far more acceptable for white young men to make money over their non-white counterparts?

[close]

It's not a race thing. EVERY basketball player is required to go to college before joining the NBA, regardless of race.  It just so happens that black guys are just better at basketball. They didn't start that rule to punish black players.

Baseball is roughly half white. The other half is comprised of mostly hispanic/black/asian players. A lot of the best players in the league are black, hispanic, or asian. Also, you can be drafted out of high school, but it generally takes 4-5+ years to make it to the major leagues anyways. You spend a lot of time in the minors not making a ton of money.

Hockey is very white. That's true, but the best players in the NHL make less than half of what the best players in the NFL/NBA/MLB make.

[close]

lol "it just so happens to disproportionately affect black people because they are the ones that tend to move on to the NBA and thus in line to make millions."

How odd. Well, at least we know it has no connection at all to the deeply rooted systemic racism and prejudice which permeates nearly every facet of our culture.

Thank god.

[close]

How is it racist if it affects EVERYONE that wants to play in the NBA? The rule would still exist if the NBA suddenly became disproportionately white.

People really need to stop looking for racism where it doesn't exist.

[close]

He’s saying that sometimes a general rule will be put in place if it predominantly effects black people. Which I agree does happen sometimes, but he’s full of shit on this when you consider that the NFL is full of predominantly black players and you can try out for it.

[close]

The rule wasn't put in place in order to hold black people back. It was put in place as an attempt to ensure that these kids (of all races) get some semblance of a real education before they are handed millions of dollars to participate in a career that may only last a few years.

Is it a coincidence that a very large percentage of players that never attended college are now essentially flat broke because they had nothing to fall back on when their sports career was over? I think not.

I would bet anyone that the ex-players who are now broke wished they would have been forced to go college first.

If it were racist, wouldn't the white establishment want to keep black people uneducated?

[Shalom Iginla]

I thought NBA didn't require college. Is that a new rule?

[DanTheDoucher]

I thought NBA didn't require college. Is that a new rule?

No. It's been in place since 2005 I believe.

[50mm]

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White people get really upset when young black men try and better their situation.

[close]

Nah nah nah gonna stop you right there. Were not playing the fucking race card just because no one else has yet...Sorry not sorry.

[close]

Interesting. It's not really all that different than the NBA. They put rules in place to "force" young black men to go to college before going to the NBA and getting potentially big money contracts, in the name of what exactly? In baseball, a much more "white" sport, one can and often does enter the professional ranks immediately out of high school. Same with hockey. Why is that? Why is it far more acceptable for white young men to make money over their non-white counterparts?

[close]

It's not a race thing. EVERY basketball player is required to go to college before joining the NBA, regardless of race.  It just so happens that black guys are just better at basketball. They didn't start that rule to punish black players.

Baseball is roughly half white. The other half is comprised of mostly hispanic/black/asian players. A lot of the best players in the league are black, hispanic, or asian. Also, you can be drafted out of high school, but it generally takes 4-5+ years to make it to the major leagues anyways. You spend a lot of time in the minors not making a ton of money.

Hockey is very white. That's true, but the best players in the NHL make less than half of what the best players in the NFL/NBA/MLB make.

[close]

lol "it just so happens to disproportionately affect black people because they are the ones that tend to move on to the NBA and thus in line to make millions."

How odd. Well, at least we know it has no connection at all to the deeply rooted systemic racism and prejudice which permeates nearly every facet of our culture.

Thank god.

[close]

How is it racist if it affects EVERYONE that wants to play in the NBA? The rule would still exist if the NBA suddenly became disproportionately white.

People really need to stop looking for racism where it doesn't exist.

[close]

He’s saying that sometimes a general rule will be put in place if it predominantly effects black people. Which I agree does happen sometimes, but he’s full of shit on this when you consider that the NFL is full of predominantly black players and you can try out for it.

[close]

The rule wasn't put in place in order to hold black people back. It was put in place as an attempt to ensure that these kids (of all races) get some semblance of a real education before they are handed millions of dollars to participate in a career that may only last a few years.

Is it a coincidence that a very large percentage of players that never attended college are now essentially flat broke because they had nothing to fall back on when their sports career was over? I think not.

I would bet anyone that the ex-players who are now broke wished they would have been forced to go college first.

Yeah I’m on the same side of this argument as you I’m just saying that it can happen in other areas of every day life. Rules put in place that effect everyone if they are especially harsh on a certain group. So I get what his argument was but I don’t believe that that’s what is actually happening here. Just trying to show I understand it happens.

[HugeBodBoyle]

The NBA is unique in this because their players union lobbied successfully for guaranteed contracts, so you get your money no matter what. Whereas the NFL, which is its own weird set of really odd mandingo fighting issues, does not have such a contract structure so, if you're a running back and you blow out your knee in game 1 of your first season, too fucking bad.

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Ergo...the rule.

[50mm]

The NBA is unique in this because their players union lobbied successfully for guaranteed contracts, so you get your money no matter what. Whereas the NFL, which is its own weird set of really odd mandingo fighting issues, does not have such a contract structure so, if you're a running back and you blow out your knee in game 1 of your first season, too fucking bad.

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Ergo...the rule.

The way you explained it seems to me like the rules are in place specifically to protect the NCAA and not specifically to target black athletes. It again reminds me of the WWE. They were scouting Brock Lesnar in Olympic style wrestling they wanted to sign him but insisted he finish school before they made a deal even though he didn’t want to go to school. Their talent relations guy (Good Ol Jr) spoke about it recently and about how they prefer college educated wrestlers because of the widely known effects higher education has on many people, how the carry themselves, the effect it has on decision making etc.

[HugeBodBoyle]

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The NBA is unique in this because their players union lobbied successfully for guaranteed contracts, so you get your money no matter what. Whereas the NFL, which is its own weird set of really odd mandingo fighting issues, does not have such a contract structure so, if you're a running back and you blow out your knee in game 1 of your first season, too fucking bad.

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Ergo...the rule.

[close]

The way you explained it seems to me like the rules are in place specifically to protect the NCAA and not specifically to target black athletes. It again reminds me of the WWE. They were scouting Brock Lesnar in Olympic style wrestling they wanted to sign him but insisted he finish school before they made a deal even though he didn’t want to go to school. Their talent relations guy (Good Ol Jr) spoke about it recently and about how they prefer college educated wrestlers because of the widely known effects higher education has on many people, how the carry themselves, the effect it has on decision making etc.

Exploiting black labor to enrich already wealthy people has been done before.

[50mm]

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The NBA is unique in this because their players union lobbied successfully for guaranteed contracts, so you get your money no matter what. Whereas the NFL, which is its own weird set of really odd mandingo fighting issues, does not have such a contract structure so, if you're a running back and you blow out your knee in game 1 of your first season, too fucking bad.

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Ergo...the rule.

[close]

The way you explained it seems to me like the rules are in place specifically to protect the NCAA and not specifically to target black athletes. It again reminds me of the WWE. They were scouting Brock Lesnar in Olympic style wrestling they wanted to sign him but insisted he finish school before they made a deal even though he didn’t want to go to school. Their talent relations guy (Good Ol Jr) spoke about it recently and about how they prefer college educated wrestlers because of the widely known effects higher education has on many people, how the carry themselves, the effect it has on decision making etc.

[close]

Exploiting black labor to enrich already wealthy people has been done before.

Not arguing that at all but sports Organizations are notorious for treating their players like shit. There’s players strikes and shit like that in every major sport because of this kind of thing. I mean some guys don’t get to go straight to the NBA but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a ton of players of black players getting paid that ARE in the NBA. It’s not like every team has the payroll to just hire every body that has NBA level skills either. So I don’t see what it really does to keep black players specially locked out. Black players still dominate the NBA and probably always will. And as long as basketball is popular they are gonna get paid a ton.

They don’t have to pay a ton of money to NCAA players and that’s all that matters. Triple A baseball players don’t make any money either. If one dude doesn’t go to college and then never gets to go to the NBA, it’s not like there isn’t a thousand other dudes in line who will.

[TheLurper]

They don’t have to pay a ton of money to NCAA players and that’s all that matters. Triple A baseball players don’t make any money either. If one dude doesn’t go to college and then never gets to go to the NBA, it’s not like there isn’t a thousand other dudes in line who will.

Forbes and Mother Jones both did articles on minor league baseball wages.

Starting wages in single A baseball is $1,100 per month (during the season) and $2,150 for AAA. However, some of the AAA players are doing pretty awesome since the mean average is 10K per month.

Also, I'm curious how many of these players have scholarships and play at universities as well. Does the NCAA allow baseball players to play in private leagues during the summer, if they play the regular season at school?


Finally, since we are super far off topic anyway, I'd like to see NCAA basketball leave the university altogether and just become minor league basketball OR I'd like to see all the coaches become unpaid "amateurs" as well. There is no reason the highest paid state employee is often some stupid coach, especially since most of the D-I schools lose money on their sports programs, hell, most lose money just on their "money making sport." (Also the point of university is the education not the sports.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2018/03/26/the-fragile-economics-between-mlb-the-minors-and-the-minimum-wage-exemption/#79b8f56f3c21
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/baseball-broshuis-minor-league-wage-income/

[50mm]

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They don’t have to pay a ton of money to NCAA players and that’s all that matters. Triple A baseball players don’t make any money either. If one dude doesn’t go to college and then never gets to go to the NBA, it’s not like there isn’t a thousand other dudes in line who will.

[close]

Forbes and Mother Jones both did articles on minor league baseball wages.

Starting wages in single A baseball is $1,100 per month (during the season) and $2,150 for AAA. However, some of the AAA players are doing pretty awesome since the mean average is 10K per month.

I wonder if that 10k includes anyone playing in the AAA when they calculated it. You have a bunch of MLB guys in there when they come back from injuries or need to work on something. I remember Manny Ramirez was in there when I was watching a lot. He was either coming back from an injury or it was after he disgraced us and got popped for roids. But at the time I believe he had the highest ever baseball contract. He was destroying in AAA but that was probably right before he got busted.

I texted so much shit talking to my boss because Dodgers beat the Angels one night. Then I woke up to him blowing up my phone laughing because Manny was all over the news the next morning for steroids. Such a walk of shame coming in.

[links, pics, and quotes]

P.S. I remember reaching 600 posts the other day, but I'm back to 600 again. What happened here? Was there a thread that recently got deleted?

Man who deleted the alva thread.. Wack

[Shalom Iginla]

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I thought NBA didn't require college. Is that a new rule?

[close]

No. It's been in place since 2005 I believe.

Makes sense, that's about the time I stopped giving a shit about basketball.

[itsyourdad]

damn sick thread, crazy about kader tho

[shitsandwich]

The NBA is unique in this because their players union lobbied successfully for guaranteed contracts, so you get your money no matter what. Whereas the NFL, which is its own weird set of really odd mandingo fighting issues, does not have such a contract structure so, if you're a running back and you blow out your knee in game 1 of your first season, too fucking bad.

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Ergo...the rule.

Sounds like you made a great point about how the NCAA would suffer if NBA allowed people straight out of high school. Isn’t it more just coincidental that the majority of people are black?

[Putaslocas]

Guys..its simple...some of you are cool with him jumping sponsors to make his money and some of you are bummed hes not staying loyal..thats the discussion..not race. Yall digging too deep.

[50mm]

What if he just likes those brands, he's young, young kids like Supreme not RVCA. Lot's of people skate ventures these days, nobody was skating those when I was skating so maybe that's what he likes. Emerica to Vans, well the Boss did it too, and he's one of the most respected players in the game. If Emerica isn't doing well, and Vans is doing extremely well it might be worth it to just jump. Kids aren't wearing Emerica's out there either by the way. I did happen to see some kid wearing some nice Reynolds G6's about a week ago in the grocery store. It was also the first time I saw crazy track marks tracing every part of every vein on someone, he was with his parents, who were paying for a handle of vodka with change. But I've seen 30 pairs of vans since then.

[lampshade]

I thought NBA didn't require college. Is that a new rule?

No.  College is not required, a player just has to be one year apart from their graduating class.  A lot of players have been making money in Europe (Spain, France, etc.) for a year, then going to the NBA.  It is a strange rule.

[Pissedoff30y/oskatedad]

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The only move that would bum me out would be of Baker. I really don’t see the FA move happening like some of yall do.

[close]

Much rather my boss be, The Boss, than Dill for god damn sure.

[DanTheDoucher]

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Literally nothing you have said here makes the rule racist.

[DanTheDoucher]

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The NBA is unique in this because their players union lobbied successfully for guaranteed contracts, so you get your money no matter what. Whereas the NFL, which is its own weird set of really odd mandingo fighting issues, does not have such a contract structure so, if you're a running back and you blow out your knee in game 1 of your first season, too fucking bad.

It's racist because in just about any other profession (other than the NFL because of literal concerns for the physical safety of the human body, maybe) you could conceivably become an earning professional straight out of high school if you are skilled enough. Why do they insist on making people go to one year of college? To learn life skills? No. It is because if these dudes could go get paid right outta high school, then they would. And then people would lose interest in collegiate basketball, which by and large makes its millions off of the labor of an unpaid, largely black workforce. If the "good" players are going straight to the NBA, the product of the NCAA suffers.

Ergo...the rule.

[close]

The way you explained it seems to me like the rules are in place specifically to protect the NCAA and not specifically to target black athletes. It again reminds me of the WWE. They were scouting Brock Lesnar in Olympic style wrestling they wanted to sign him but insisted he finish school before they made a deal even though he didn’t want to go to school. Their talent relations guy (Good Ol Jr) spoke about it recently and about how they prefer college educated wrestlers because of the widely known effects higher education has on many people, how the carry themselves, the effect it has on decision making etc.

[close]

Exploiting black labor to enrich already wealthy people has been done before.

Yeah it was called slavery. I have a very hard time comparing slavery to paying someone $20 million a year to toss a ball into a net.

You are being so ridiculous at this point that it seems like you are trolling.

[DanTheDoucher]

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I thought NBA didn't require college. Is that a new rule?

[close]

No. It's been in place since 2005 I believe.

[close]

Makes sense, that's about the time I stopped giving a shit about basketball.

I have never given a shit about basketball, but that's probably because Pittsburgh doesn't have an NBA team.

[DanTheDoucher]

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I thought NBA didn't require college. Is that a new rule?

[close]

No.  College is not required, a player just has to be one year apart from their graduating class.  A lot of players have been making money in Europe (Spain, France, etc.) for a year, then going to the NBA.  It is a strange rule.

Yes, this is actually true. The best high school players are better off going to college for a year though. Better competition and they get a year of college credits under their belt.

[50mm]

I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

[DanTheDoucher]

I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

Where are you from? Seattle?

[50mm]

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I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

[close]

Where are you from? Seattle?

Palm Springs. Probably won’t happen because this place always says they are gonna do some shit like this and it never happens. Not enough people here outside of winter anyways, and the ones that are here are elderly. I can drive a little over an hour and see an AHL team though. Which I should do in the next couple months. I just hate driving into the city.

[DanTheDoucher]

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I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

[close]

Where are you from? Seattle?

[close]

Palm Springs. Probably won’t happen because this place always says they are gonna do some shit like this and it never happens. Not enough people here outside of winter anyways, and the ones that are here are elderly. I can drive a little over an hour and see an AHL team though. Which I should do in the next couple months. I just hate driving into the city.

Is that California or Florida? If it's Florida, the last thing you guys need is another NHL team.

[os89]

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I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

[close]

Where are you from? Seattle?

[close]

Palm Springs. Probably won’t happen because this place always says they are gonna do some shit like this and it never happens. Not enough people here outside of winter anyways, and the ones that are here are elderly. I can drive a little over an hour and see an AHL team though. Which I should do in the next couple months. I just hate driving into the city.

[close]

Is that California or Florida? If it's Florida, the last thing you guys need is another NHL team.

He says no one there outside of winter and the elderly so Im guessing Florida.

[50mm]

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I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

[close]

Where are you from? Seattle?

[close]

Palm Springs. Probably won’t happen because this place always says they are gonna do some shit like this and it never happens. Not enough people here outside of winter anyways, and the ones that are here are elderly. I can drive a little over an hour and see an AHL team though. Which I should do in the next couple months. I just hate driving into the city.

[close]

Is that California or Florida? If it's Florida, the last thing you guys need is another NHL team.

[close]

He says no one there outside of winter and the elderly so Im guessing Florida.

Nope. California. It’s the same deal. I was actually looking at population yesterday for some reason and we are around 800,000 in winter and like 200,000 in summer.

People just fucking flood in here in winter, lots of rich people. This place isn’t made for that so it’s a nightmare.

[Ocelot]

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They don’t have to pay a ton of money to NCAA players and that’s all that matters. Triple A baseball players don’t make any money either. If one dude doesn’t go to college and then never gets to go to the NBA, it’s not like there isn’t a thousand other dudes in line who will.

[close]

Forbes and Mother Jones both did articles on minor league baseball wages.

Starting wages in single A baseball is $1,100 per month (during the season) and $2,150 for AAA. However, some of the AAA players are doing pretty awesome since the mean average is 10K per month.

Also, I'm curious how many of these players have scholarships and play at universities as well. Does the NCAA allow baseball players to play in private leagues during the summer, if they play the regular season at school?


Finally, since we are super far off topic anyway, I'd like to see NCAA basketball leave the university altogether and just become minor league basketball OR I'd like to see all the coaches become unpaid "amateurs" as well. There is no reason the highest paid state employee is often some stupid coach, especially since most of the D-I schools lose money on their sports programs, hell, most lose money just on their "money making sport." (Also the point of university is the education not the sports.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2018/03/26/the-fragile-economics-between-mlb-the-minors-and-the-minimum-wage-exemption/#79b8f56f3c21
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/baseball-broshuis-minor-league-wage-income/

ouch

[os89]

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I need to watch more Hockey. I like it a lot but I never put enough effort into watching sports. Besides baseball post season. Need to stop fucking around and use more free tv apps at home.

We have a Mario Lemieux golf jersey thing in a casino out here from when he did a celebrity game out here. That’s as close as it gets. But as I write this I just remembered they are supposedly building a hockey arena out here and have already filed trademarks for an NHL expansion team so that would be sick.

[close]

Where are you from? Seattle?

[close]

Palm Springs. Probably won’t happen because this place always says they are gonna do some shit like this and it never happens. Not enough people here outside of winter anyways, and the ones that are here are elderly. I can drive a little over an hour and see an AHL team though. Which I should do in the next couple months. I just hate driving into the city.

[close]

Is that California or Florida? If it's Florida, the last thing you guys need is another NHL team.

[close]

He says no one there outside of winter and the elderly so Im guessing Florida.

[close]

Nope. California. It’s the same deal. I was actually looking at population yesterday for some reason and we are around 800,000 in winter and like 200,000 in summer.

People just fucking flood in here in winter, lots of rich people. This place isn’t made for that so it’s a nightmare.

Haha well I'll be god damned