2016 Presidential election

[Tufty]

The problem with Sanders is that he is a social democrat. Capitalism and economy GLOBALLY can't afford social democracy. I mean even Europe is trying to abolish social state and become like America. No it's not because america is a possitive role model, its because profit rates have fallen for capitalists and dont want to pay for social state anymore. There is no way out without violence. There will be either world war to reset economy or war against the rich (civil wars). Social democrats historically despised violence and tried to convince rich people to pay, but that never worked in a declining economy.

[Eric ricks]

The problem with Sanders is that he is a social democrat. Capitalism and economy GLOBALLY can't afford social democracy. I mean even Europe is trying to abolish social state and become like America. No it's not because america is a possitive role model, its because profit rates have fallen for capitalists and dont want to pay for social state anymore. There is no way out without violence. There will be either world war to reset economy or war against the rich (civil wars). Social democrats historically despised violence and tried to convince rich people to pay, but that never worked in a declining economy.

Truth

[brycickle]

Speaking of Bernie rallies, he did one here in Lincoln, NE. They couldn't fit most of the people that showed up into the venue. Bernie proceeded to hold a rally outside for those who couldn't get in, then went inside for your regularly scheduled program.

[Sleazy]

it's true bernie has be extremely dedicated to good causes and actively presuing them for a long time but what has he actually gotten done? i think he's too far left to get anything really done. the good thing about him and trump though is that they are helping bring in ideas that other people are afraid to and they are helping steer the conversation and policies. obama is way less liberal than bernie and i'd argue still got a lot of his ideas off the ground but he still couldn't get everything done and what did get done got watered down. there's no way that bernies policies would make it.

he'll be a great vp though...

[brycickle]

the good thing about him and trump

There is nothing good about Drumpf, other than the destruction/implosion of the republican party.

[Sleazy]

Calling out bush and republicans on Iraq war seems good to me. Making the Republican Party implode by talking honestly about their policies is good. Calling out policing the world as an impractical and bad idea is good. Suggesting that Saudi, Iraq and others should pay for the military protection we offer is good. Don't let the hair and asshole personality fool you, guys surfacing some good ideas just like sanders.

[Tufty]

Expand Quote

the good thing about him and trump

[close]

There is nothing good about Drumpf, other than the destruction/implosion of the republican party.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-abortion-women-punishment_us_56fc2a99e4b083f5c606880d


Forward to the past...

[Casey Jones]

This is sad, but I don't want any of these people to be our president. Bernie lives in a fantasy world to me, and has no plan on how he can accomplish half the shit he says he wants to do, while I do think he believes in good causes. Hilary is a lying sack of shit that will say anything to get people on her side. Trump is an egotistical, misogynistic maniac who will drive our country into the ground and/or cause countries to bomb us within 1 month of taking office. Cruz is just annoying as hell and lies a ton too, not to mention has fucking annoying religious views that will make Christians be the only people that matter in this country again. Marco Rubio has no chance, Kasich seems like a good dude, even though I identify heavily as a democrat. But he doesn't stand a chance and he is not presidential material at all. Seems weak af.

I just can't imagine any of these people being the face of our nation. There's always been someone I was really into in the past. One or two.

It's really frustrating. All the brilliant people who live in this country, and these are the clowns that bubbled up somehow to run for president. 

Oh well.

[excitableboy]

This is sad, but I don't want any of these people to be our president. Bernie lives in a fantasy world to me, and has no plan on how he can accomplish half the shit he says he wants to do, while I do think he believes in good causes. Hilary is a lying sack of shit that will say anything to get people on her side. Trump is an egotistical, misogynistic maniac who will drive our country into the ground and/or cause countries to bomb us within 1 month of taking office. Cruz is just annoying as hell and lies a ton too, not to mention has fucking annoying religious views that will make Christians be the only people that matter in this country again. Marco Rubio has no chance, Kasich seems like a good dude, even though I identify heavily as a democrat. But he doesn't stand a chance and he is not presidential material at all. Seems weak af.

I just can't imagine any of these people being the face of our nation. There's always been someone I was really into in the past. One or two.

It's really frustrating. All the brilliant people who live in this country, and these are the clowns that bubbled up somehow to run for president. 

Oh well.

I agree that Sanders will probably have a hard time transforming his ideas into policy. But wouldn't you say this is the failure of American politics, rather than his? The Overton Window in American politics is just regular. It's unbelievably wide in some places (Trump, who only benefits from boasting about antisocial ideas), frustratingly narrow in others (Sanders, who always has to apologize for suggesting social ideas for a society). It's not like his solutions aren't commonplace in most of the civilized world.

Calling out bush and republicans on Iraq war seems good to me. Making the Republican Party implode by talking honestly about their policies is good. Calling out policing the world as an impractical and bad idea is good. Suggesting that Saudi, Iraq and others should pay for the military protection we offer is good. Don't let the hair and asshole personality fool you, guys surfacing some good ideas just like sanders.

It's pure expediency on his part though. Like the hair, his principles are disingenuous. Also, those sheiks pay dearly for that protection already.

[Main]

I repeat...voting doesn't matter. Politicians do not care about you, even if their rehearsed speeches say otherwise. This entire country...the world as a whole is upheld by nothing but corruption and lies. Throw religion in there and boy things are looking fantastic for our future. The future is in fact, fucked. Go out and skate, enjoy your time before the shit show really hits the fan. Also, please stop having children. That is all.

[Grampa]

You sound very informed as well as enlightened. I look forward to your inevitable descent into conspiracy theories and Alex Jones worship. With enough hard work, you'll soon be able to pepper your well thought out arguments with words like "puppet", and "false flag".

Are you one of those people who thinks the world is going to end in our lifetime?

[Main]

You sound very informed as well as enlightened. I look forward to your inevitable descent into conspiracy theories and Alex Jones worship. With enough hard work, you'll soon be able to pepper your well thought out arguments with words like "puppet", and "false flag".

Are you one of those people who thinks the world is going to end in our lifetime?

Haha, I predicted someone would come along and accuse me of following Alex Jones. No thanks, I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories. I have no idea when humans will wipe each other out completely, or when the next incurable super virus will come along and depopulate, but I think it's safe to say the earth will be here to heal itself after we die off.

If you're from The States and believe that we need government authority and terrorist organizations like the FBI and CIA to keep us safe at night, you're in for a rude awakening.

[Sleazy]

Damn sounds like it sucks to be you. I'm over here enjoying this great economy, cheap gas and healthcare and looking forward to Clinton 2.0, the sanders edition.

[Iceman]

devil's advocate: are you guys saying our votes matter, despite the electoral college and citizen's united? are you guys saying politicians do it for the public, not because of their payouts? are you guys saying corruption and lies aren't rampant in the world? are you guys saying religion is a positive force despite the rampant discrimination and incalculable numbers of deaths, historically? are you guys saying the future is looking bright? are you guys saying you shouldn't enjoy yourselves while you're alive? are you guys saying we should continue to increase the population in an already overpopulated world? are you guys saying....that is all.

[weedpop]

What the fuck are you talking about? Everyone knows that politicians are spineless and self-interested but that doesn't mean your vote has zero influence on the political process. The reason candidates take all that money in the first place is to pay campaign managers and marketers to get people like you to vote for them. Political change is always possible, but not if everyone just throws in the towel and reverts to easy nihlism and materialism.

If you're from The States and believe that we need government authority and terrorist organizations like the FBI and CIA to keep us safe at night, you're in for a rude awakening.

You should try going to a place that doesn't suffer the oppressive burden of government authority and see how safe it actually is...

[Sleazy]

Thread needs more weedpop

[Main]

God forbid I challenge the status quo, it makes me a conspiracy theorist or nihilist according to many. My point is voting is always choosing the lesser of two evils, you're still choosing evil at the end of the day. Anarchism is really the only thing that will ever work. Please google misconceptions of Anarchism before you reply with an emotionally driven immature response. Thanks.

[ben shraider]

God forbid I challenge the status quo, it makes me a conspiracy theorist or nihilist according to many. My point is voting is always choosing the lesser of two evils, you're still choosing evil at the end of the day. Anarchism is really the only thing that will ever work. Please google misconceptions of Anarchism before you reply with an emotionally driven immature response. Thanks.

Nothing will ever ''work''. And that's not something you should be depressed about.

[Tufty]

Damn sounds like it sucks to be you. I'm over here enjoying this great economy, cheap gas and healthcare and looking forward to Clinton 2.0, the sanders edition.

Granted that you are a professional programmer you have the misconseption that economy is great. No its not great, the economy is not only for the tech literate. Also an economy that does not rely heavily on industry/manufacturing is a failed one that floats on bubbles and that software engineering fad is a bubble too. The US and Europe have undermined their economies with all that outsourcing and I think they are in panic now because they realised what they have done. Mark my words, new global recession by the end of 2017, will uncover these.

God forbid I challenge the status quo, it makes me a conspiracy theorist or nihilist according to many. My point is voting is always choosing the lesser of two evils, you're still choosing evil at the end of the day. Anarchism is really the only thing that will ever work. Please google misconceptions of Anarchism before you reply with an emotionally driven immature response. Thanks.

 Anarchism works when you are an angry teenager and dont know shit. Anarchists except Kropotkin maybe are just nonsense noise of clueless angry teenagers.  

[Iceman]

disagree with main's solution, but he has a healthy level of skepticism. rather humorous that only a half of one of my questions was addressed, and it was met with rage and dismissive assumption.

[Main]

Anarchism is not synonymous with Anarchy. This is probably the most common misconception about anarchism.
Anarchy is a system in which there's no government whatsoever. There are no rules or laws to adhere to. There's no authority to answer to and no accountability. It is quite frankly, a chaotic and outdated, not to mention non-feasible idea.

Anarchism is a totally different concept.
Anarchism is the rejection of certain rules that have been enforced by society. It doesn't venture into the extreme like Anarchy. It is the advocating of a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups. Such a system isn't devoid of any supervision. It is quite simply a belief which states that all forms of governmental authority are unnecessary and undesirable as they do more harm than good.

Nothing will ever work perfectly, but Anarchism is the closest we will get to harmony. We just need to wipe religious extremists off the earth and start taking care of each other on a needs basis.

[Tufty]

Anarchism is not synonymous with Anarchy. This is probably the most common misconception about anarchism.
Anarchy is a system in which there's no government whatsoever. There are no rules or laws to adhere to. There's no authority to answer to and no accountability. It is quite frankly, a chaotic and outdated, not to mention non-feasible idea.

Anarchism is a totally different concept.
Anarchism is the rejection of certain rules that have been enforced by society. It doesn't venture into the extreme like Anarchy. It is the advocating of a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups. Such a system isn't devoid of any supervision. It is quite simply a belief which states that all forms of governmental authority are unnecessary and undesirable as they do more harm than good.

Nothing will ever work perfectly, but Anarchism is the closest we will get to harmony. We just need to wipe religious extremists off the earth and start taking care of each other on a needs basis.

I ve read at least one book from any prominent anarchist (Bakunin, Kropotkin, Malatesta, Proudhon and more I cant rember). I know what anarchist godfathers preached and I find it immature, anti-scientific and naive. Forms of government are necessary even in post-revolution because you have to oppress the rich who want to take back their position in society. I find it stupid that Anarchy is something that is considered independently from communism (The only anarchist that addressed this is kropotkin). Communists are long-term anarchists, they argue that they have to preserve a totalitarian socialist-state of workers that oppresses the rich and their lakeys until they are so powerless against workers that they cant revert the socialist system to capitalism. Communist theory speaks about a social state that will be self-abolished when there will be no threat against socialism, in order to proceed in a communist utopia (which is what anarchist want too).

  Of course that is not an easy task because people are programmed from their birth to think within the box the system provides them, falsely making them believe that this is human nature(most dipshit argument ever).

[Main]

Anarchism is different than Communism. One is run by the people and the other is run by a dictatorship that tells you how to think and feel. What's immature and irresponsible is billions of people putting their lives in the hands of a rich elite to make laws that are mainly there to serve the ruling class. Big decisions are made every day through means of bribery, and bills filled with thousands of words have the main agenda strategically placed within them to be passed under the radar to serve the rich.

Humans will always kill each even without government. We will never live in perfect harmony, but Anarchism is the closest we can get. Capitalism is exploitation and enslavement, period. Even all the Christians walking around this country can't see how it goes against the teachings of Jesus.

[Eric ricks]

Anarchism is good on paper.

But not with 7 billion people on earth and major cities.

There has to be some sort of "order".

Ughhh, the older I get the more I just wanna live off the grid at my cabin

[Sleazy]

Expand Quote

Damn sounds like it sucks to be you. I'm over here enjoying this great economy, cheap gas and healthcare and looking forward to Clinton 2.0, the sanders edition.

[close]

Granted that you are a professional programmer you have the misconseption that economy is great. No its not great, the economy is not only for the tech literate. Also an economy that does not rely heavily on industry/manufacturing is a failed one that floats on bubbles and that software engineering fad is a bubble too. The US and Europe have undermined their economies with all that outsourcing and I think they are in panic now because they realised what they have done. Mark my words, new global recession by the end of 2017, will uncover these.

if you build software you've have built something tangible. it's a product like any other and it's also an asset like any other product so i'm not sure how you are getting this bubble idea. it's not fake value like stock trading or real estate speculation.

if outsourcing is a concern for you then you better work on your hustle. the hardest part of software just like any kind of construction is communication and buidling the right thing. so if you could imagine getting contractors to do landscaping at your house but only being able to communicate through the phone with people who don't live where you live, who don't speak your language as a first language and who've never been in a yard like the one you want then you could imagine that's not going to come out that good. sure you might have one local guy managing a team of illegals (or offshore in the analogy) but the trick is to be that one local guy who is always needed to interface with the customers. if you're a worker bee with no hustle then yeah, you better save some money.

as for the economy, where are you getting your numbers? the dow industrial and s&p are both kicking all kinds of ass and employment is way down and that's coming off the biggest recession in over a hundered years. shits on fire and it's not just the nasdaq.

[Tufty]

 Well you may be coding for a profession but your economic knowledge is non-existant. Coding is not always creating a "tangible product". The economy is divided in sectors.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_sector_of_the_economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_sector_of_the_economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertiary_sector_of_the_economy

 It is widely accepted from political economists that an economy that doesnt have a strong Primary and more importantly a strong Secondary sector is a problematic one. Most of coding is not part of manufacturing or industry but part of the tertiary_sector (web apps, mobile apps, tertiary sector's digital infrastructure (banks, hotels etc) and much more). The service sector does not create new value out of materials or livestock so it is just taking value from the other two sectors, because people need services. So if you have a bloated tertiary sector and not a strong primary and secondary sector there is no value to be extracted so economy crumbles. The internet bubble we are witnessing is just recycling less and less money in a crippled economy, it doesnt create new value. If primary and secondary sector crumble facebook, google, airbnb and uber will crumble as well. The opposite would never happen. Guess what we have done, we are outsourcing our primary and secondary sector and we are left with a bloated tertiary sector.

 Nice graphs really. I would challenge you to look up equally nice graphs from 2007 when a few economists would warn about the incoming recession and  would get ostracized. In 2016 those economists are even more and even mainstream economists especially the keynesian ones are very concerned. The recessions have taught us one nice pattern, that before the actual economic slump, there is a decline in investment. That decline has happened the last few months and we are expecting the new global recession at the end of 2017 at least.

 People who are in the tech sector are often detached by the big picture I see it with colleagues. However you cant be that disillusioned to not understand that the Trump and Sanders effect are connected with the shitty situation of economy.

 

[brycickle]

Damn sounds like it sucks to be you. I'm over here enjoying this great economy, cheap gas and healthcare and looking forward to Clinton 2.0, the sanders edition.

THANKS OBAMA!!!

God forbid I challenge the status quo,

Considering that less than half of the electorate show up to vote in even their local elections, I wouldn't necessarily call voting the "status quo".

[Sleazy]

anyone see paul ryan's state of politics talk? thought it was pretty good. be interesting if he can back it up as speaker while getting ready for his 2020 bid.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?407141-1/house-speaker-paul-ryan-remarks-state-american-politics+

[Sleazy]

Well you may be coding for a profession but your economic knowledge is non-existant. Coding is not always creating a "tangible product". The economy is divided in sectors.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_sector_of_the_economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_sector_of_the_economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertiary_sector_of_the_economy

 It is widely accepted from political economists that an economy that doesnt have a strong Primary and more importantly a strong Secondary sector is a problematic one. Most of coding is not part of manufacturing or industry but part of the tertiary_sector (web apps, mobile apps, tertiary sector's digital infrastructure (banks, hotels etc) and much more). The service sector does not create new value out of materials or livestock so it is just taking value from the other two sectors, because people need services. So if you have a bloated tertiary sector and not a strong primary and secondary sector there is no value to be extracted so economy crumbles. The internet bubble we are witnessing is just recycling less and less money in a crippled economy, it doesnt create new value. If primary and secondary sector crumble facebook, google, airbnb and uber will crumble as well. The opposite would never happen. Guess what we have done, we are outsourcing our primary and secondary sector and we are left with a bloated tertiary sector.

 Nice graphs really. I would challenge you to look up equally nice graphs from 2007 when a few economists would warn about the incoming recession and  would get ostracized. In 2016 those economists are even more and even mainstream economists especially the keynesian ones are very concerned. The recessions have taught us one nice pattern, that before the actual economic slump, there is a decline in investment. That decline has happened the last few months and we are expecting the new global recession at the end of 2017 at least.

 People who are in the tech sector are often detached by the big picture I see it with colleagues. However you cant be that disillusioned to not understand that the Trump and Sanders effect are connected with the shitty situation of economy.

software is a product or asset depending on if it's sold or used. the service side comes from maintenace on released software. if you are selling software outside of your country then you are increasing it's circular flow, it's GDP and imports to exports ratio. it's no different than music, film or any other intangible product.

hate this fucking thread. . sleazy so pompous it's gross

whatever man, i'm the only one in this thread not being negative. and you insult like a 12 year old girl.

[Tufty]

software is a product or asset depending on if it's sold or used. the service side comes from maintenace on released software. if you are selling software outside of your country then you are increasing it's circular flow, it's GDP and imports to exports ratio. it's no different than music, film or any other intangible product.

Dude just make an effort to read the articles from wikipedia you will get some education.  Films, music and art fall into the category of services. Software is more complicated but web apps, mobile apps and software that caters service sector (banks, government etc) are services. Firmware on eectronics is for sure into manufacturing sector