Dwindle - Made in China wood

[baaaaaaguette]

this isn't even true anymore in terms of quality. and i was the biggest dwindle hater. they also been making boards in china for like two decades. same with ps stix, maybe not as long. the wood is fine. just face the facts that a chinese factory can pump out boards that are on par with american decks. making a skateboard deck isn't that hard after all. expect to see more local board presses that take shares from american ones because the word is spreading that there are more options out there than bbs or ps.

you would need to prove first how dwindle even puts margins over quality. maybe they are convinced they really have the best boards. they constantly say so. even if they had better margins than other manufacturers, that says nothing about the quality of the product. your whole logic about the correlation of quality and margins is flawed, because there are more factors at play.

dwindle is not a small garage operation, it's an extreme sport conglomerate at this point. holding a major corp like them to realness standards like this is kind of ridiculous and ineffective. just vote with your dollar and don't buy their boards, if you dislike them anyways you'll miss nothing, so no one loses.

your post reads more like you have something against other people than americans making skateboards under the assumption that they can't be good or that anything produced in china is trash, whereas most stuff that is nowadays produced in the usa in my experience is also trash, especially the food, unless it's something high priced. to me made in usa is not a seal of quality, not anymore than made in china.same with made in germany as it means nothing anymore more like the og meaning of "beware, german copy". we mostly export thousands of tons of cheap pork that's barely surviving of meds into asia and cars and luxury goods to the usa, asia and rich oil states. still it's all fucking crap nowadays. the bitter truth is that a collectivist society like china will inevitably outpace individualist societies like the whole west in a game of competitive and economic mass production. not only will do they do the work cheaper, they will also do it better after a while because they don't stop until they streamlined the shit out of it.

Thank you frank. Of course some salty goblins kooked me because how dare I state the obvious fact a lot of Chinese nationals resent the west after getting constantly antagonized by the media circus. I didn’t really detail anything, my bad.
The fucking Australian MP literally said they would wage war against China, and like half of articles written on this try to justify him lol, shoutout to the OG in this thread busting out the underlying sinophobia of the “Everything made by China sucks” mentality

[S.]

Whatever. Just try them out yourself. They are great for two weeks. After that they fall apart quickly. Maybe they use great glue, but the wood isn‘t all that good?

[FrozenIndustries]

Current board got waterlogged on my rainy bike ride home today. Went into the stack of previously skated boards, mostly BBS with a couple PS and one Crail. Of all of them, the crail still feels the snappiest even after having sat in my basement since the early fall. Skated 3 or 4 in the past year and all of them perform on par with or better than the boards from North American woodshops that Ive skated.

OPs protectionist concern-trolling aside.

[Escooter]

Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[Paco Supreme]

This might be a wood shop thread question? But it works here.

Seeing how euro boards are often different from those state side, is an R7 in London the same as an R7 in the US?

[Sativa Lung]

Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[Woodshop]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[Sativa Lung]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

You've made me mostly obsolete but I still check in from time to time and helping/educating/busting skate marketing myths is something I think is important if we want to actually be informed consumers.

[Woodshop]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[close]

You've made me mostly obsolete but I still check in from time to time and helping/educating/busting skate marketing myths is something I think is important if we want to actually be informed consumers.

Ha never!

Maybe I do post a bit too often though, or just too quick to jump on things, but I have definitely seen and heard some interesting things on here from you and many other people, which makes this place so good if you really want to go deep into skate product - at least Shoes & Gear anyway.

I would always rather have multiple perspectives on anything as well, not just the first guy to jump on the REPLY button.

[Tale Crab]

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Expand Quote

Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.

[Woodshop]

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Expand Quote

Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[close]

BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.

It is all down to personal preference.

Once I would have been happy on PS Stix boards, but when the shapes changed and tails got smaller, I had to find something that worked better for me.

I still have a few PS Stix boards set up as normal riders and cruisers, but after finding the most comfortable concave and shapes and being able to get a whole lot of them from BBS, there is no going back.

Maybe more people I know ride BBS than any other single woodshop, but that is not to say that there are other boards out there that don't work better for some people and I would definitely recommend standing on a lot of different woodshop boards before making any decisions, for anyone buying a board.

[Sativa Lung]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[close]

BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.

PS wood is ideal old man wood as long as you didn't get too fat in your 30s. Snappy, light, and they tend to have much mellower tails than other woodshops. They don't last as long as some other mfg but I very rarely skate a board to death before getting bored of it.

I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.

[rocklobster]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[close]

BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.

[close]

I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.

Interesting take on deck flexibility and stiffness, makes sense why some decks that are extremely stiff (DSM Resin-7) can feel dead for much of their lifespan.

I don't like decks that are day 1- stiff, 3 sessions in is where I find it has broken in sufficiently and sessions 4-8 is where it has the right amount of shittiness.

[Ok]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[close]

BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.

[close]

PS wood is ideal old man wood as long as you didn't get too fat in your 30s. Snappy, light, and they tend to have much mellower tails than other woodshops. They don't last as long as some other mfg but I very rarely skate a board to death before getting bored of it.

I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.

PS is my fave woodshop.
What bfrd said: the flex is actually really nice.
A good PS board is the best board.
I really don’t care for bbs these days, which is kinda wild to me, in that I remember the early days of kayo and thinking that those boards were noticeably nicer than most of what I had ridden.

On topic, I ride crail boards, because of shape/dimensions, and like the wood. It’s not as ‘exciting’ as a great PS board, or as long lasting as some others, but the shape and size is what I want and it lasts more than long enough. 

[Frank]

omg i hate ps stix.

legit never had one i liked.

feel soggy after three seshs, weird shapes, don't like how they flex. they feel dead to me brand new. unless i broke the deck prematurely, which was very often the case with ps(usually i'd break them after 3 weeks and i never break boards, i wear them out) i would retire my ps stix decks after one or two weeks out of sheer frustration.

i haven't bought one in 3 or 4 years. i'd go with china dwindle over wherever ps any day. i was thinking i just kept getting bad ps boards like i was unlucky. but after so many misses i decided they don't work for me/are just straight up bad imo.

straigh up joyless wood.

[ridethegutter]

I have skated several creature decks recently and haven’t had any issues. They last way longer than the soggy ps stix decks I skated.

[Woodshop]

Dwindle definitely seems the "stiffest" boards out there in the international market. 

I say that because some smaller woodshops are said to be that or more, but if they don't do many boards, or most never get to other places, most people will never know what they are like.


The funny thing is some people want that super stiff feeling, but others do not, which is why there are a number of people with positive things to say and others with negative things, about Dwindle or any woodshops for that matter.


It is good to have options though.

[j....soy.....]

Overall though, the quality on most of the mid to high end stuff coming out of china: crail/dwindle is good.  There’s just certain properties on the boards which some people like/dislike.  The construction is consistent and can handle the numbers which the bigger brands demand which is prolly why they use them…..

[spicysk8rboi]

palace have been some of my favorite boards, let a friend have my old one after a month, he skated it for another 2 weeks no issues. ps stix fucking suck

[Tale Crab]

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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?

[close]

It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.

The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.

As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.

[close]

BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!

I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.

[close]

BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.

[close]

PS wood is ideal old man wood as long as you didn't get too fat in your 30s. Snappy, light, and they tend to have much mellower tails than other woodshops. They don't last as long as some other mfg but I very rarely skate a board to death before getting bored of it.

I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.

[close]

PS is my fave woodshop.
What bfrd said: the flex is actually really nice.
A good PS board is the best board.
I really don’t care for bbs these days, which is kinda wild to me, in that I remember the early days of kayo and thinking that those boards were noticeably nicer than most of what I had ridden.

On topic, I ride crail boards, because of shape/dimensions, and like the wood. It’s not as ‘exciting’ as a great PS board, or as long lasting as some others, but the shape and size is what I want and it lasts more than long enough.

I completely agree with both. I'm well into my 30s and a fresh PS board is my safe place. This might have to do with riding about a dozen Flip boards in a row 15 years ago when they were the only 8.25" that was readily available locally. I believe some of them were from their stint in China, but I don't remember completely hating them either.
As mentioned before, they just have a light feel to them, even though the scale didn't always agree with the few that I measured against BBS boards of a similar size. Part of this might have to do with how PS rounds the edges more, leaving them feeling thinner.
But what I like about them the most is the slightly flexy snap, that the others just don't have. With a fresh PS board it can sound like a crack of a whip, whereas for BBS it's a thick clunk. Even the way the boards give in and twist a little when setting up for a 360 flip just feels perfect.

I've been riding BBS boards for the past year as I wasn't able to find any PS pressed to my liking. I just don't get along with the steep nose on the mold that Quasi, WKND, GX1000 and most use these days. Anything from 8.25" to 8.375" on a mellow mold, long enough nose and tail and wheelbase over 14.25" just hasn't hit my radar. The BBS boards have felt alright for the most part except for one that was the soggiest I can remember ever having. After three sessions it was just gone and like a wet noodle. I set up another one just like it and the difference was night and day.

I did try a Crail board and while the wood felt decent, I ended up giving it away because the short tail and steeper kicks just felt off. Having been plagued with injuries the last several years I just don't have time for anything that doesn't feel right. I wouldn't mind trying Dwindle, but as they don't really offer anything with mellow kicks or wheelbases over 14.25", I don't even have to look.

[skool]

Another fan of PS decks and others with some flex to them.

R7s are well made but they haven't got the feel of a more flexible press; I'm not as connected to the board when they're too stiff.

Once you get used to a bit of flex and work out the timing its helps suck tricks up to your feet, and with less effort.

[DefyGravityGuy]

....
I've been riding BBS boards for the past year as I wasn't able to find any PS pressed to my liking. I just don't get along with the steep nose on the mold that Quasi, WKND, GX1000 and most use these days. Anything from 8.25" to 8.375" on a mellow mold, long enough nose and tail and wheelbase over 14.25" just hasn't hit my radar. The BBS boards have felt alright for the most part except for one that was the soggiest I can remember ever having. After three sessions it was just gone and like a wet noodle. I set up another one just like it and the difference was night and day.

I did try a Crail board and while the wood felt decent, I ended up giving it away because the short tail and steeper kicks just felt off. Having been plagued with injuries the last several years I just don't have time for anything that doesn't feel right. I wouldn't mind trying Dwindle, but as they don't really offer anything with mellow kicks or wheelbases over 14.25", I don't even have to look.

Well, depending on how willing you are to size up and ride a directional board, Madness has got you covered: https://www.basementskate.com.au/madness-skateboard-deck-oil-slick-8.5/#tab_description
Only 8.5 at it's widest but it tapers a bit. tail 6.56" and nose 6.69" with 14.5 wb.

[Sativa Lung]

Another fan of PS decks and others with some flex to them.

R7s are well made but they haven't got the feel of a more flexible press; I'm not as connected to the board when they're too stiff.

Once you get used to a bit of flex and work out the timing its helps suck tricks up to your feet, and with less effort.

Yep. That's basically my experience. I HATED ps when I started skating again and wouldn't buy anything except Pennswood and bbs, but I got a WKND deck with a huge nose super cheap on Zumiez closeout and it totally changed my mind. At first I was just skating (and not particularly enjoying) it because the nose helped me get some snap on my toe flick but as the session went on I think I slowed down enough to match the timing and it was like the board suddenly had a spring in the tail. It also helps that the general mold design philosophy is closer to what I like - short, mellow tail/big steep nose/flatter shape with less spoon. It's not necessarily more functional or anything though, just a preference thing.

I actually set my foot up slightly different on PS boards, I move down the tail a little bit so I'm pressing more towards the bottom of the curve and thus hitting the ground a little faster. That seems to help me work out the timing. I still have to adjust when I switch but it's more of a twenty minute thing now and by the time my old legs warm up I'm usually pretty acclimated.

I guess my take is that PS wood is more misunderstood than anything. It's not for everyone, but don't be afraid to try something different. You might like it.