Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock

[Get the strap]

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don't want to speculate but want to answer a few things--

in a hung jury the state has the option to retry the criminal case. its expensive and rare.  what i have seen after hung juries are no contest or Alfred pleas ("look i'm not saying i'm guilty i'm saying you have enough evidence to convict me") on an amended lesser included offense, with a time served component. its just as likely the gov could drop it entirely on may 13 and move on to the next fight.   

a civil case is for monetary damages, you don't go to jail if you can't pay.  we don't have debters prison in america. the action is not not brought by the state its brought by the injured party. damages would include past present and future medical treatment, as well as lost earning capacity. its a lower standard than criminal (beyond a reasonable doubt v. preponderance of the evidence).  However, you cant bleed a stone.  Could they win a huge monetary victory against Mr. Vieria -- absolutely. but it would only be empiric. the lien on Mr. Jensen's medical care is most likely well over any thing jessie has in liquid or any assets he presently owns.  it really wouldnt make sense unless it was for revenge and most civil attorneys don't take revenge cases.


ill happily answer general questions.

[close]

What do you think about the "self defense against a security guard?" "Defending yourself while trespassing against security" ? That's what Vieira's lawyer was telling the press so I'd assume that was the main argument in court.

Couple things I thought about: The picture with Jensen out of surgery, his eyes, nose, and mouth don't look bruised or swollen, so maybe he wasn't even hit by the skaters, or was softly hit and it didn't bruise...thus the argument his injury was caused by the fall and not the skaters?

The other thing is didn't Love Park or other plazas have undercover cops posing as people or security etc? You could maybe see that in the streets. Cops going undercover as security, maybe.

[close]

unless you're armed security inside a bank I don't think you're really expected to "do anything" except ask them to leave and then call the police. This was trespassing by the skaters, not a robbery/burglary attempt or anything that was putting innocent people in danger. Unlike police, the security does not have a duty to engage beyond asking them to leave.

Non-answer is still an answer, thanks @tortfeasor

Any type of 911 emergency, firefighter or paramedics or police, that's not the job of a security guard, whom probably signs and agrees to all this of what they can and can't do. I hope nothing else happens with this case, time to move on.

[nooky]

Lets hope the security guards nationwide see this and remember they are not cops and do not have the authority of cops. Shame he had to get his head fucked to learn this.

hey look, another painfully stupid take on this bullshit!

would you feel comfortable telling the family of the security guard this?

[papo]

Lets hope the security guards nationwide see this and remember they are not cops and do not have the authority of cops. Shame he had to get his head fucked to learn this.

Lets hope we dont get shot because dipshit Jesse decided to bash someones head in.

You sound crazy right now.

[halitosis]

I'm not saying this is the case at black rock....but some "security gaurds" are in fact real police officers.

Its the case at my job.    They don't look like uniformed police with their differing school campus uniforms...but they have guns and are indeed city police officers.

Good thing to know about at any spot when you think "they can't do anything".

[arrbee]

I'm not saying this is the case at black rock....but some "security gaurds" are in fact real police officers.

Its the case at my job.    They don't look like uniformed police with their differing school campus uniforms...but they have guns and are indeed city police officers.

Good thing to know about at any spot when you think "they can't do anything".

Can confirm, got ran out of a college, they chased us an pulled guns on us. Turned out this particular college campus police are state troopers assigned to the college.

That was probably the last time I talked shit to any security guard. It isn't worth it.

[breakingthewaves]

one for the legal experts here. in a case like this where i'm assuming there were no procedural problems (ie mistrial by hung jury), under what circumstances might the state try it again? for instance is it more likely in a murder trial? might they offer a more lenient deal to avoid a trial? and when would they drop the charges altogether?

[arrbee]

I'm not one of the legal experts and I have no data to back me up. But I am under the assumption it would be extremely hard to retry after a mistrial and it turn out any other way besides another mistrial or acquittal

[rapscallion]

My take on the uncut video, not looking good though...

THIS VIDEO IS PURE SPECULATION AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AS FACT

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=lYzA_1546919390

I spent over 15 minutes looking for this to brush up and it's deleted. Screw you man.

[tortfeasor]

one for the legal experts here. in a case like this where i'm assuming there were no procedural problems (ie mistrial by hung jury), under what circumstances might the state try it again? for instance is it more likely in a murder trial? might they offer a more lenient deal to avoid a trial? and when would they drop the charges altogether?

Pretty much any homicide or heinous sex crime they look into retrying. If they chose not to retry (or try the case at all which happens a lot in the lower courts) they file a nolle prosequi which dismisses the charges gives them right to bring it back out if something changes down the line (i.e. a new witness comes forward). there is also a DWOP (dismissed without prejudice) which has a similar effect but is requested by the defendant (could mean a million things like the Gov. does not want to file a nolle pros but cant get a necessary witness to come to court or on a drug case the evidence was suppressed).

Before i mentioned "no contest" (sometimes called nolo contedre)  and Alford pleas -- that's not a "guilty" plea but its an adjudication and firmly closes the book on a case.  both sides call this a victory.  Time served its pretty much self explanatory.  that's why you sometimes see sentences of "215 days HOC deemed served." You may also get offers of a guilty on an amended lesser included offence ("ABDW" is a lesser included of "ABDW causing serious bodily injury") with a split sentence (3 years State Prison, 18 months to serve, balance suspended over five years). 

when i was a student ADA in law school (i did not have the right temperament to make a career out it)  i never really got to see how the sausage was made for the superior court stuff but based on what ive experenced doing defense i would speculate that They drop the charges after consulting with the family of the alleged vic (who may not want to go through the stress of trial again), they don't have the resources or time to dedicate to another trial, and to some extent whether or not or they think the Defendant is a danger to the community or likely to reoffend.

 

[stevedave]

theres a case in SF that happened in 2016, where film producer Kevin Epps shot someone who was in his house.  He was arrested and charges were dropped pretty quickly.  TODAY they arrested him again for the same crime.  Obviously, something changed where they now feel as if they have a better reason to charge him and take him to trial on a murder charge.

[halitosis]

theres a case in SF that happened in 2016, where film producer Kevin Epps shot someone who was in his house.  He was arrested and charges were dropped pretty quickly.  TODAY they arrested him again for the same crime.  Obviously, something changed where they now feel as if they have a better reason to charge him and take him to trial on a murder charge.

Usually this ablity to retry and not have it be "double jeopardy" is based on malicious intent to hide evidence.   And it has to be compelling evidence.

It's not easy to retry a case....someone already mentioned how this doesn't stop a civil case from proceeding.

[stevedave]

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theres a case in SF that happened in 2016, where film producer Kevin Epps shot someone who was in his house.  He was arrested and charges were dropped pretty quickly.  TODAY they arrested him again for the same crime.  Obviously, something changed where they now feel as if they have a better reason to charge him and take him to trial on a murder charge.

[close]

Usually this ablity to retry and not have it be "double jeopardy" is based on malicious intent to hide evidence.   And it has to be compelling evidence.

It's not easy to retry a case....someone already mentioned how this doesn't stop a civil case from proceeding.

The Kevin Epps case that I was referencing isn't a retrial, as it never went to trial in the first place.  It's just taken them years to get what they must feel is sufficient enough to proceed with charges.  Wasn't trying to compare to Jesse's case, was just pointing out that it happened 2 years ago and he's finally being charged, as people were inquiring about legal stuff.

[Abyss1]

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one for the legal experts here. in a case like this where i'm assuming there were no procedural problems (ie mistrial by hung jury), under what circumstances might the state try it again? for instance is it more likely in a murder trial? might they offer a more lenient deal to avoid a trial? and when would they drop the charges altogether?

[close]

Pretty much any homicide or heinous sex crime they look into retrying. If they chose not to retry (or try the case at all which happens a lot in the lower courts) they file a nolle prosequi which dismisses the charges gives them right to bring it back out if something changes down the line (i.e. a new witness comes forward). there is also a DWOP (dismissed without prejudice) which has a similar effect but is requested by the defendant (could mean a million things like the Gov. does not want to file a nolle pros but cant get a necessary witness to come to court or on a drug case the evidence was suppressed).

Before i mentioned "no contest" (sometimes called nolo contedre)  and Alford pleas -- that's not a "guilty" plea but its an adjudication and firmly closes the book on a case.  both sides call this a victory.  Time served its pretty much self explanatory.  that's why you sometimes see sentences of "215 days HOC deemed served." You may also get offers of a guilty on an amended lesser included offence ("ABDW" is a lesser included of "ABDW causing serious bodily injury") with a split sentence (3 years State Prison, 18 months to serve, balance suspended over five years). 

when i was a student ADA in law school (i did not have the right temperament to make a career out it)  i never really got to see how the sausage was made for the superior court stuff but based on what ive experenced doing defense i would speculate that They drop the charges after consulting with the family of the alleged vic (who may not want to go through the stress of trial again), they don't have the resources or time to dedicate to another trial, and to some extent whether or not or they think the Defendant is a danger to the community or likely to reoffend.

 

How many people do this kind of work Pro-bono, That staircase doc on Netflix showed a guy who had his whole life account wiped out and the lawyer almost didn't want to take his re-trial but ended up doing it for free knowing that he could afford anyone

[jakeumms]

I will say from personal experience it's not as easy as you'd expect to get someone to take your civil suit pro bono as you may have thought. I had to get a lawyer to represent me against a driver's insurance co and my own health insurance co and I had to go out of town to find one that would do it for the relatively small amount they were likely to get in the settlement.  All the tv guys who are supposedly in your corner were not in my corner.

[Cool Ceith]

I will say from personal experience it's not as easy as you'd expect to get someone to take your civil suit pro bono as you may have thought. I had to get a lawyer to represent me against a driver's insurance co and my own health insurance co and I had to go out of town to find one that would do it for the relatively small amount they were likely to get in the settlement.  All the tv guys who are supposedly in your corner were not in my corner.

Did you call Saul tho?

[Googan Christmas]

I’m not a legal expert, but if the tail end of a law and order is on when I’m flipping the channels, sometimes I’ll watch the next three or four of those shits.  My expertise says they won’t try him again and the prosecutor is getting his head chewed off by the DA, which sucks cause no one understands what he’s dealing with at home (wife leaving cause he’s working too much).

[shannamal]

this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

[Corky Thatcher]

this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

Will you tell me what happened so i don't have to read it?

[Fred Savage]

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this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

[close]

Will you tell me what happened so i don't have to read it?

It started with some straight up snitching and now after some months of people that don’t know anything telling you what’s what they have decided that the local news paper is the best source of info. Go figure.

[Mickey Knox]

I’m not a legal expert, but if the tail end of a law and order is on when I’m flipping the channels, sometimes I’ll watch the next three or four of those shits.  My expertise says they won’t try him again and the prosecutor is getting his head chewed off by the DA, which sucks cause no one understands what he’s dealing with at home (wife leaving cause he’s working too much).

So good

[gaseous clay]

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this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

[close]

Will you tell me what happened so i don't have to read it?

AVAILBLE NOW!!!!

Shalom

[papo]

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this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

[close]

Will you tell me what happened so i don't have to read it?

[close]

AVAILBLE NOW!!!!

first you dig up some old thread of mine that nobody cared with some bullshit, now you designed some book cover? What’s wrong with you? 😂😂

[CHONGO]

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Lets hope the security guards nationwide see this and remember they are not cops and do not have the authority of cops. Shame he had to get his head fucked to learn this.

[close]

Lets hope we dont get shot because dipshit Jesse decided to bash someones head in.

You sound crazy right now.

Wow you sound like such a fucking idiot.

[Trickflip]

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this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

[close]

Will you tell me what happened so i don't have to read it?

[close]

AVAILBLE NOW!!!!

[close]

[Switch_fsflip_noseslide]

The moral to all of this : if you get kicked out of a spot, just leave and come back at a better time.

It bugs me when people kook it by going to spots at the wrong time. A lot of spots have obvious windows of opportunity, like sundays or at night, when you will go unnoticed. Each time the cops are called or there is a confrontation with security leads the spot closer to its demise. Even the bustiest spots have that hour when security is on lunch. Be stealth and respectful, and leave the spot how it looked when you got there.

But when thrasher or sponsors are paying you to get shit done, maybe these pros feel obligated to or else they won't be able to "shoot their shot". ...idk just a thought but, I prefer to come back another time. But I have no dealines. Saying that, still doesn't give you the right so. Nevermind

[Switch_fsflip_noseslide]

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count this one as a win for skateboarding, with all the shitty stuff that has been happening lately this is so awesome!

[close]

This is the most garbage take.

For sure bad take. Kind of jock mentality. "Well we won the game woo! I don't care how many people I beat up and bloodied along the way. We won. Yes!"
We're supposed to leave the spots beat up and bloody, not people

[shannamal]

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this thread has fucking sucked from start to finish.

[close]

Will you tell me what happened so i don't have to read it?

[close]

AVAILBLE NOW!!!!

[close]

first you dig up some old thread of mine that nobody cared with some bullshit, now you designed some book cover? What’s wrong with you? 😂😂

[close]

Hardly "dug up". It's been quite active since the mistrial. Someone made a joke about the previous requests for someone to summarize it so they didn't have to read it all, which is kind of ironic because the basis of so much of these 55+ pages is people who didn't bother to read any of it before posting. Anyhoo, I thought it was funny, so I made a book cover. You have nothing to add, so you post some more dumb shit. You strike me as the kind  of guy who sits on the wall at the park and gives people tips they didn't ask for about tricks you can't even do.

"you just gotta scoop your foot more. i'd show you, but i got hurt the other day and i'm taking it easy today"

[arewedeadyet]

https://abc7news.com/sf-judge-declares-mistrial-in-skateboard-attack-on-security-guard/5289629/

[retiredpornstar]

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one for the legal experts here. in a case like this where i'm assuming there were no procedural problems (ie mistrial by hung jury), under what circumstances might the state try it again? for instance is it more likely in a murder trial? might they offer a more lenient deal to avoid a trial? and when would they drop the charges altogether?

[close]

Pretty much any homicide or heinous sex crime they look into retrying. If they chose not to retry (or try the case at all which happens a lot in the lower courts) they file a nolle prosequi which dismisses the charges gives them right to bring it back out if something changes down the line (i.e. a new witness comes forward). there is also a DWOP (dismissed without prejudice) which has a similar effect but is requested by the defendant (could mean a million things like the Gov. does not want to file a nolle pros but cant get a necessary witness to come to court or on a drug case the evidence was suppressed).

Before i mentioned "no contest" (sometimes called nolo contedre)  and Alford pleas -- that's not a "guilty" plea but its an adjudication and firmly closes the book on a case.  both sides call this a victory.  Time served its pretty much self explanatory.  that's why you sometimes see sentences of "215 days HOC deemed served." You may also get offers of a guilty on an amended lesser included offence ("ABDW" is a lesser included of "ABDW causing serious bodily injury") with a split sentence (3 years State Prison, 18 months to serve, balance suspended over five years). 

when i was a student ADA in law school (i did not have the right temperament to make a career out it)  i never really got to see how the sausage was made for the superior court stuff but based on what ive experenced doing defense i would speculate that They drop the charges after consulting with the family of the alleged vic (who may not want to go through the stress of trial again), they don't have the resources or time to dedicate to another trial, and to some extent whether or not or they think the Defendant is a danger to the community or likely to reoffend.

 

Yo my guy right here is smart as fuck

[tortfeasor]

thanks retiredpornstar.  when the first skateboarder sex tape comes out i'm sure you will be able to provide some great context as well.

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one for the legal experts here. in a case like this where i'm assuming there were no procedural problems (ie mistrial by hung jury), under what circumstances might the state try it again? for instance is it more likely in a murder trial? might they offer a more lenient deal to avoid a trial? and when would they drop the charges altogether?

[close]

Pretty much any homicide or heinous sex crime they look into retrying. If they chose not to retry (or try the case at all which happens a lot in the lower courts) they file a nolle prosequi which dismisses the charges gives them right to bring it back out if something changes down the line (i.e. a new witness comes forward). there is also a DWOP (dismissed without prejudice) which has a similar effect but is requested by the defendant (could mean a million things like the Gov. does not want to file a nolle pros but cant get a necessary witness to come to court or on a drug case the evidence was suppressed).

Before i mentioned "no contest" (sometimes called nolo contedre)  and Alford pleas -- that's not a "guilty" plea but its an adjudication and firmly closes the book on a case.  both sides call this a victory.  Time served its pretty much self explanatory.  that's why you sometimes see sentences of "215 days HOC deemed served." You may also get offers of a guilty on an amended lesser included offence ("ABDW" is a lesser included of "ABDW causing serious bodily injury") with a split sentence (3 years State Prison, 18 months to serve, balance suspended over five years). 

when i was a student ADA in law school (i did not have the right temperament to make a career out it)  i never really got to see how the sausage was made for the superior court stuff but based on what ive experenced doing defense i would speculate that They drop the charges after consulting with the family of the alleged vic (who may not want to go through the stress of trial again), they don't have the resources or time to dedicate to another trial, and to some extent whether or not or they think the Defendant is a danger to the community or likely to reoffend.

 

[close]

How many people do this kind of work Pro-bono, That staircase doc on Netflix showed a guy who had his whole life account wiped out and the lawyer almost didn't want to take his re-trial but ended up doing it for free knowing that he could afford anyone

it really depends on the case--- personally, in the past, if i've carry a case that far and something like this happened i'm walking back up the hill and trying it again. Its nearly impossible not to get emotionally attached to (some) cases.  you spend so much time with these people, you meet their family, you know all their emotional and personal problems so you want to do right by them.  You also invested so much effort and through and given so much it feels wrong to just walk away from.  But im also a sucker, there are some attorneys who can just close a file and walk away forever no second thoughts.  I would also say that i get a call from a stranger asking for free trial work-- i probably would not take it.  I've only done 4 probono criminal cases and they were because it was young people who i sincerely felt bad for.  just kids dealt a really bad hand.