that first-hand account was tops. thank you for sharing with us eranka.
I was under the impression that the USSR was also anti-semitic, based on Marx's "On the Jewish Question" and the "incompatibility" of the "jewish chosen people" and communism? it's been years since i read that so please correct me if that's wrong.
To follow OBF's tangent, Despacito was a #1 hit in Spanish (fuck the J.Bible version tho) from Puerto Rico, whose sovereignty and US membership is a topic for a whole new discussion. So maybe that is a similar sitch?
I don't know the relationship between Maghreb arabs and Palestinians, you've mentioned ending relationships bc of this issue, what were those discussions like? what were their goals? did u manage to have a discussion like this one? I am definitely not trying to diminish the struggles of different peoples, but could this enmity in France come from differences in opportunity? Israelis struggling have the opportunity to move to Israel (which they might or might not consider "home"), but Palestinians are trying to find safety and opportunities all over the world (again, whether it's "home" or not). Chile has the largest population of Palestinians outside of the Middle East (six digits). We even have a professional futbol team called Palestino. I didn't grow up in the capital, so I only have a faint idea of the dynamics there. A random instance I remember was waiting at a traffic light when a homeless man biking around with a "Free Palestine" flag crossed the street, and the dude in the driver's seat of the car next to me got out just to yell insults at him.
I guess what I'm getting at is: where do Palestinians find respite? Could a stance supporting Israel be taken as support for the Israeli government, at least in France? The conflict being "imported" into France could also be related to previous posts' reference to the West's peoples realizing that their nations were the ones fucking up everything abroad, and stances changing based on that?
Finally, what's your take on Palestine's right to exist?
well ....usually no real discussion over the subject, it just gets too heated to speak rationnally. And most of the time, my argument was with white French guys that supported the Palestinian cause so blindly if fell into antisemitism. For instance, like I said, one of my childhood friends started saying he wanted to burn synagogues (that guy is not too stable but still, I was really shocked when he said that). The latest exemple was the drummer in one of the bands I play in: he's Belgian-Moroccan and started saying one night "well Jews have exagerated the Holocaust and they used it to found Israel and oppress Arabs". I cowardly just changed subject cause it's hard enough to get along musically without bringing politics into it. The problem is that these conversations start about Israel but quite often it gets into "the Jews".
A main fault line in France is how you view Dieudonné: French comedian, half-white half-black, who started his career with a Jewish partner. After splitting from that partner, he later started spewing a lot of anti-jewish rethoric (not anti-Israel, mind: anti-jewish) and going into politics. He actually became friends with the Le Pen family: founders of the Front National/Rassemblement National, the French extreme right. Yeah, I know, it makes no sense. Anyways Dieudonné has a lot of support in the french "banlieue". And I stopped talking to quite a few friends that support him and post his shit constantly on social media. To give you an idea, Dieudonné accuses Jews of being responsible for the slave trade and is constantly pitting people against one another.
could this enmity in France come from differences in opportunity?
Yes. Arabs suffer from racism in France, probably more than anyone. But Israel has got nothing to do with it....The conflict being imported into France of course has to do with France's colonial past, so everything gets mixed up, it's a complicated situation. It just irks me so much when people act like "the west" is the only imperial power. The debate gets way oversimplified. For instance, the berbers are the original inhabitants of the maghreb, from before the arab conquest. It's a big population of about 30 millions in Algeria and Morocco and lot of them still feel like they are being colonized by Arabs and don't have the same rights. It took them 50 years of struggle after independance to see their langage (tamazigh) recognized officially by the state.
Finally and as I said before, I do not support everything Israel does, I just think there should be room for a Jewish state. And like Eranka, I think a 2-state solution is the best hope. btw Eranka, thanks again for your explanation of the situation. Especially the political climate in Israel. The sad thing is, it sounds similar to France or even the US and UK: social media has made people more polarized and extreme. Everybody follows their own media, each with its own bias and accuses the others of fake news....The French left is pretty much in the same state as the israeli left apparently: the different parties refuse to form a coalition amongst themselves and so remain in the minority.
PS: really hope to visit Chile one day! My bio father was from Chile.
Topic: Israel's right to exist (Read 14373 times)