Al Davis on scumbag?

[Atiba Applebum]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

How many times a day do you stroke it to Ben Shapiro?

[labor]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

[close]

How many times a day do you stroke it to Ben Shapiro?

I'm a left wing person who works in the legal domain. The fact that believe the core constitutional criminal legal procedure rights, as provided for by the 6th amendment, are controversial and associate the rights afforded to the accused as being right wing (or anything related a childlike Ben Shapiro), suggests you know nothing of which you speak, including the liberal rights you believe your are advancing.

[Alan]

Funny how these 'reasonable' calls for caution come up only when sexual assault or harassment are involved. Well, that and racist attacks/incidents. Misogyny and racism go hand in hand, I guess.

These guys are more than happy to ignore the fact that the legal system has so many times fucked the victims and that simply talking about rape is traumatic for them. But sure, let's be careful and not jump to any conclusions before (and only if) there is a trial and a verdict.

[JamesFardy]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

[close]

How many times a day do you stroke it to Ben Shapiro?

[close]

I'm a left wing person who works in the legal domain. The fact that believe the core constitutional criminal legal procedure rights, as provided for by the 6th amendment, are controversial and associate the rights afforded to the accused as being right wing (or anything related a childlike Ben Shapiro), suggests you know nothing of which you speak, including the liberal rights you believe your are advancing.

I special.

[Atiba Applebum]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

[close]

How many times a day do you stroke it to Ben Shapiro?

[close]

I'm a left wing person who works in the legal domain. The fact that believe the core constitutional criminal legal procedure rights, as provided for by the 6th amendment, are controversial and associate the rights afforded to the accused as being right wing (or anything related a childlike Ben Shapiro), suggests you know nothing of which you speak, including the liberal rights you believe your are advancing.

More speaking about your auto-fellating, smug debate style than anything left/right wing.   I could sit here and parse your word dumps and show that you are just as guilty of taking out comments to an imagined conclusion and you accuse us of doing.   

What matters is, Converse shared a post where Al Davis praised the strong women in his life.  A woman who wanted to share her personal experience with Al Davis’s treatment of women used that very post to make her (and seven other women’s) point.   Not sure why she has to find some other method or medium to share her experiences to satisfy you, but good luck trying to take down the court of public opinion.  I’m all those men accuse of sexual misdeeds who are completely innocent are indebted to your bravery. 

[urbneathme]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

if you think the american legal system was set up to give black folks the opportunity to avail themselves of rights you have to be the dumbest person on the internet.

once again, fuck you. i genuinely, sincerely hope there are not people, especially women, in your life that depend on you for emotional support.

[labor]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

[close]

How many times a day do you stroke it to Ben Shapiro?

[close]

I'm a left wing person who works in the legal domain. The fact that believe the core constitutional criminal legal procedure rights, as provided for by the 6th amendment, are controversial and associate the rights afforded to the accused as being right wing (or anything related a childlike Ben Shapiro), suggests you know nothing of which you speak, including the liberal rights you believe your are advancing.

[close]

More speaking about your auto-fellating, smug debate style than anything left/right wing.   I could sit here and parse your word dumps and show that you are just as guilty of taking out comments to an imagined conclusion and you accuse us of doing.   

What matters is, Converse shared a post where Al Davis praised the strong women in his life.  A woman who wanted to share her personal experience with Al Davis’s treatment of women used that very post to make her (and seven other women’s) point.   Not sure why she has to find some other method or medium to share her experiences to satisfy you, but good luck trying to take down the court of public opinion.  I’m all those men accuse of sexual misdeeds who are completely innocent are indebted to your bravery.

Putting your thoughtless ad hominem to the side (maybe autofellatio to you but basically talking like an adult in the real word), your still changing the point. At no point do I say this woman should be silenced or she should choose a different medium for expressing her feelings. I made a very minor comment at the beginning about not be conclusive about al’s guilt and letting this play out. The woman and other woman should feel free to speak out as wherever they see fit. The two points don’t stand in contradiction. Chill and maybe let this unwind itself more before you determine someone to be guilty. That shouldn’t be controversial.

To your sarcastic and garbled point about my bravery. Sure, man, whatever. No one is being brave on this board, myself included. But if you spent some more time dealing with people accused of crimes, including drug crimes (I have no experience representing people accused of sex crimes), it might change your opinion on being quick to judgment.

Cheers.

[labor]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

[close]

if you think the american legal system was set up to give black folks the opportunity to avail themselves of rights you have to be the dumbest person on the internet.

once again, fuck you. i genuinely, sincerely hope there are not people, especially women, in your life that depend on you for emotional support.

Why do people who think they are the good guy always do the tough guy internet thing? My points are simple, I understand the legal system well (I’ve represented people related to drug crimes), my points are simply that people should refrain from drawing conclusions immediately. The fact that this is controversial and invites your tough guy internet thing is on you.

[gaunting]

God damn

[bo bice]

labor really put in work to make an ass of himself on this one

[applejuice]

Fuck this really bums me out if it's true, has anyone seen anyone else back up these accusations? She said that she was not the only victim of his.

[applejuice]

The legal system only defends the rich

[urbneathme]

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The original point is you dont know, and I dont know. Which is why a system in which we marshal evidence to buttress claims is used rather than whatever you are putting forward here.

The rush to certitude about what did or did not happen is unhelpful.

[close]

and the rush to ignore this and wait for criminal proceedings that will absolutely never come is the most fucking useless thing you could do

[close]

Im not sure how you can suggest I wish to "ignore it" which is not anything I've said. Im merely encouraging people to withhold judgement against an accused person until you have more than what has been provided. What rights do you think you are providing to anyone - the accuser or the accused by implying that these posts reach a specific conclusion. As you me know, there is both good practical and theoretical reasons for having a system based on providing the accused opportunities to defend themselves as well as accusers to avail themselves or rights. We have a history in which racist mob rule controlled a large swath of the country and did not afford accused relevant means to redress that inequity. The system is flawed but it is better than whatever it is you think you are doing.

[close]

i would say providing the accusers the right to be heard judgement free is important. as you may know, there are good and practical reasons for women and non-men whole-stepping around the law and judicial system for any number of reasons. because you’re clearly ornery, let’s go through some. these women may not believe in imprisonment, which is the end result of a criminal trial. they may not want to have to relive their trauma in front of complete strangers and then have the details of which argued by those strangers. they may not want to have police ignore them or outright deny their ability to press charges. they may not want to hear from police, prosecutors, juries, or lawyers about how it was their fault they were assaulted. they may not want to have years of their lives defined by a criminal trial connected to their trauma. there are a million other reasons too.

this is clearly the recourse these women feel most comfortable with discussing their experiences. they have absolutely zero reason to lie en masse. to imply that they are or to try to cast dispersions on what they’re saying is such small behavior. if you care about al, or community in general, you should want him rehabilitated and not jailed. calling out also means calling in. it’s a moment for his friends, mentors, etc to step up and help him change his behavior to be able to re-enter society as someone that can be trusted and give respect to the people in his life.

i obviously know that you’re just being prickly to be prickly and you don’t care about any of this. so for clarity, fuck you.

[close]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

(2)  "Whole-stepping" around the law may appeal to people, but unfortunately it is not recognized as a legal means of recourse for an accuser, and very importantly for the accused. You seem to have divined the  a whole set of reasons that you believe are good ideas for "whole-stepping" the law. The accusers here, at least thus far, have not suggested this. You are merely speculating their motives, including that they even wish to "whole step" the law.

(3) I have not accused or implied them to be lying or lying en masse. You should be more careful with such accusations. 

(4) I'm not sure you should decide what is best for 'al. He is afforded certain rights under the law, and I dont think you should assume he agrees with your view that he should be "rehabilitated" or anything in regards to these accusations until he says so.

(5) Calling me "ornery' and lying that I suggest these women are lying, and ending this with a "fuck you," is worthless and shows your points are neither sharp nor well anchored. In your quest to string buzzwords together, it would maybe behoove you to learn more about not only the rights of the accused but familiarize yourself with two centuries of extralegal standards in which black men, not afforded rights to protect themselves against accusations, have been tried in the court of public opinion and sentenced to grizzly outcomes. It is one of the strong reasons we have a legal system that affords those accused of crimes to avail themselves of rights.

(6) What stated off as me merely suggesting people, including yourself, should not per se determine an outcome here has resulted in you deciding that Al committed felonies, that he does not deserve any legal rights or evidentiary standard before making that decision, and then inventing a lot ideas about why people are doing what they are doing here - none of which you know. I'll leave for others to determine the strength of your argument, but I would suggest you would not like to meet the justice that you are doling out to others.

[close]

if you think the american legal system was set up to give black folks the opportunity to avail themselves of rights you have to be the dumbest person on the internet.

once again, fuck you. i genuinely, sincerely hope there are not people, especially women, in your life that depend on you for emotional support.

[close]

Why do people who think they are the good guy always do the tough guy internet thing? My points are simple, I understand the legal system well (I’ve represented people related to drug crimes), my points are simply that people should refrain from drawing conclusions immediately. The fact that this is controversial and invites your tough guy internet thing is on you.

not pretending to be tough or good. i would say the fact that you've dedicated your life to the legal system and your insisting upon it being known you've repped drug cases might highlight the fact that you're not able to see the legal system in the brutal light of day. i've got an extraordinary amount of people i love and cherish that have been sexually assaulted and attacked by people like this. frankly, they've been coerced, inappropriately touched or propositioned by people that run this same phony legal jargon nonsense after the fact. if i'm prickly in the hopes of giving women a fair shake in coming to terms with their own traumas i'm perfectly cool with that. i think you if you have a problem with it, you should maybe investigate yourself.

once again, and for clarity, fuck you. please, stay away from women or any other person you may be sexually attracted to until you do the necessary internal work to redefine enthusiastic consent and its implications. within yourself. i do it every time this topic is thrust upon me. it's important work.

[Lou Strux]

(1) The court of law is the forum to be heard free of judgement. People are free to exercise free speech rights, within limits, on any topic. I'd hardly call instagram a "judgement free" zone or to place to not want to "relive their trauma in front of strangers". So Im not sure this makes any sense.

Why you say this? Isn’t court of law where you go specifically FOR judgement?
Also, why a POC like Al Davis should trust US justice system is as questionable as why a victim of sexual assault should depend on same system for justice. Like you mentioned; history.

[Atiba Applebum]

Is it ad hominem if you make fun of a person whilst debating their points?   

[Taraval]

Fuck this really bums me out if it's true, has anyone seen anyone else back up these accusations? She said that she was not the only victim of his.

Not necessarily these accusations but i can say this has happened in my crew.

He hit on my friends gf at a bar, saw my friend and proceeded to still mack

He caresses random girls ears in tenderloin bars and whispers sketchy shit

When i was 18 and had a 17 year old friend who wasnt really a skater but was just a girl that knew of skating, he sent her DMs to hit him up and kick it when he must of been between 34-36.

I always tripped out when i went to sf in my twenties but then i realized those fools would go to our college parties or kickbacks when there were no younger than 28 (the old guard of GX as in Yonnie and Al). I dont live there anymore so i kind of forgot about all that.

Im gonna be pretty honest, i know he gets a lot of love on SLAP but my old group in sf is hyped hes not skating and in the spotlight often. Dudes a bummer to even think about.

And i know a lot of you guys bring up legalities and the trivial-ness of instagram posts and their legitimacy, but I’ll just say from firsthand experience dude sucks as a person and even if he hasnt done anything that could face a court of law, i believe ive heard enough personal anecdotes from different people that have stories of him being a shit person to form an opinion. 


In terms of retroactive justice, if i knew what was the right way to approach it i would tell you. But I’ll admit when i dont, so i am not going to pretend like i do.

[applejuice]

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Fuck this really bums me out if it's true, has anyone seen anyone else back up these accusations? She said that she was not the only victim of his.

[close]

Not necessarily these accusations but i can say this has happened in my crew.

He hit on my friends gf at a bar, saw my friend and proceeded to still mack

He caresses random girls ears in tenderloin bars and whispers sketchy shit

When i was 18 and had a 17 year old friend who wasnt really a skater but was just a girl that knew of skating, he sent her DMs to hit him up and kick it when he must of been between 34-36.

I always tripped out when i went to sf in my twenties but then i realized those fools would go to our college parties or kickbacks when there were no younger than 28 (the old guard of GX as in Yonnie and Al). I dont live there anymore so i kind of forgot about all that.

Im gonna be pretty honest, i know he gets a lot of love on SLAP but my old group in sf is hyped hes not skating and in the spotlight often. Dudes a bummer to even think about.

And i know a lot of you guys bring up legalities and the trivial-ness of instagram posts and their legitimacy, but I’ll just say from firsthand experience dude sucks as a person and even if he hasnt done anything that could face a court of law, i believe ive heard enough personal anecdotes from different people that have stories of him being a shit person to form an opinion. 


In terms of retroactive justice, if i knew what was the right way to approach it i would tell you. But I’ll admit when i dont, so i am not going to pretend like i do.

Damn definitely sounds like a scummy dude

[notmikerusczyk]

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You'd think going to the police would be the right move but rapists very rarely face any sort of consequence for their actions legally. Some people don't realize they've been raped or abused until years later after any sort of "evidence" is gone. Can't say what she SHOULD do since I'm not in her shoes but gathering info and having it set and prepared for the ensuing scrutiny she's going to face would be a good idea.

[close]

I've never been raped but i reckon id know right away as i was penetrated

well you're a fucking idiot

[Noble Experiment]

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Fuck this really bums me out if it's true, has anyone seen anyone else back up these accusations? She said that she was not the only victim of his.

[close]

Not necessarily these accusations but i can say this has happened in my crew.

He hit on my friends gf at a bar, saw my friend and proceeded to still mack

He caresses random girls ears in tenderloin bars and whispers sketchy shit

When i was 18 and had a 17 year old friend who wasnt really a skater but was just a girl that knew of skating, he sent her DMs to hit him up and kick it when he must of been between 34-36.

I always tripped out when i went to sf in my twenties but then i realized those fools would go to our college parties or kickbacks when there were no younger than 28 (the old guard of GX as in Yonnie and Al). I dont live there anymore so i kind of forgot about all that.

Im gonna be pretty honest, i know he gets a lot of love on SLAP but my old group in sf is hyped hes not skating and in the spotlight often. Dudes a bummer to even think about.

And i know a lot of you guys bring up legalities and the trivial-ness of instagram posts and their legitimacy, but I’ll just say from firsthand experience dude sucks as a person and even if he hasnt done anything that could face a court of law, i believe ive heard enough personal anecdotes from different people that have stories of him being a shit person to form an opinion. 


In terms of retroactive justice, if i knew what was the right way to approach it i would tell you. But I’ll admit when i dont, so i am not going to pretend like i do.

[Circaskater420]

I will wait for further information before forming an opinion

[Croquet temper]

Funny how these 'reasonable' calls for caution come up only when sexual assault or harassment are involved. Well, that and racist attacks/incidents. Misogyny and racism go hand in hand, I guess.

These guys are more than happy to ignore the fact that the legal system has so many times fucked the victims and that simply talking about rape is traumatic for them. But sure, let's be careful and not jump to any conclusions before (and only if) there is a trial and a verdict.

You raped me. You are going to jail.

[Freelancevagrant]

Before some of y’all start (or continue) chirping about how they want to hear both sides, they don’t believe the victim(s), or making hella offensive jokes about rape and minimizing the trauma it causes; let’s take a few minutes and realize how fucking insensitive and irresponsible that is.

If you don’t believe what’s being said I implore you to go over the file I will link, and if you’re too lazy to do that I will post a few highlights.

For what it’s worth, these facts are coming from The National Sexual Violence Resource Center.

The majority of sexual assaults, an estimated 63 percent, are never reported to the police (Rennison, 2002). The prevalence of false reporting cases of sexual violence is low (Lisak, Gardinier, Nicksa, & Cote, 2010), yet when survivors come forward, many face scrutiny or encounter barriers. For example, when an assault is reported, survivors may feel that their victimization has been redefined and even distorted by those who investigate, process, and categorize cases.

Understanding victim behavior
and its social context is critical to understanding the obstacles victims face in reporting. Incorrect ideas about rape, known as rape myths, are culturally ingrained. “Determining whether rapes are ‘real’ is intensely entangled in rape myths that blame victims, excuse rapists, and erroneously support that false rape claims are a common problem” (Belknap, 2010, P. 1335)

An unfounded report is a case that is investigated and found to be false or baseless. The ‘unfounded’ classification is often confused with false allegations, in part because the definitions may seem similar. For example, unfounded cases include those that law enforcement believes do not meet the legal criteria for rape. It does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from the legal perspective, in that jurisdiction, the case does not meet the legal criteria, or it is “baseless.”

False report
A false report is a reported crime to a law enforcement agency that an investigation factually proves never occurred.

Baseless report
A baseless report is one in which it is determined that the incident does not meet the elements of the crime, but is presumed truthful.

Research shows that rates of false reporting
are frequently inflated, in part because of inconsistent definitions and protocols, or a weak understanding of sexual assault. Misconceptions about false reporting rates have direct, negative consequences and can contribute to why many victims don’t report sexual assaults (Lisak et al., 2010).

Sources:

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

[Jackoffnun]

Bonita Applebaum. You lost. Take your L, and go home. Your cape is showing.

[IpathCats]

The fact that people can't recognize aspects of both of these arguments as valid, hurts my brain/heart. This is an incredibly nuanced issue, women need to be heard and protected from these creeps, but at the same time we can't have a fucking unruly witch-hunt based on words alone. Have some fucking empathy, and try to think about the downsides of your preferred course of action. Both "solutions" right now have the potential to absolutely destroy perfectly good people, and that's wrong. Rapists should not go free, false accusations should have real consequences. Women should feel safe and confident in their ability to report this horrible shit and it be taken care of. Men should feel safe and confident in their innocence if they have done nothing to jeopardize it. Stop acting like you've got this shit figured out, because we clearly DON'T.

[RichardBarkley]

The fact that people can't recognize aspects of both of these arguments as valid, hurts my brain/heart. This is an incredibly nuanced issue, women need to be heard and protected from these creeps, but at the same time we can't have a fucking unruly witch-hunt based on words alone. Have some fucking empathy, and try to think about the downsides of your preferred course of action. Both "solutions" right now have the potential to absolutely destroy perfectly good people, and that's wrong. Rapists should not go free, false accusations should have real consequences. Women should feel safe and confident in their ability to report this horrible shit and it be taken care of. Men should feel safe and confident in their innocence if they have done nothing to jeopardize it. Stop acting like you've got this shit figured out, because we clearly DON'T.

This stuff gets so polarizing on here, nice to see someone who can see the merits of every side.

[sometimeperhaps]

The fact that people can't recognize aspects of both of these arguments as valid, hurts my brain/heart. This is an incredibly nuanced issue, women need to be heard and protected from these creeps, but at the same time we can't have a fucking unruly witch-hunt based on words alone. Have some fucking empathy, and try to think about the downsides of your preferred course of action. Both "solutions" right now have the potential to absolutely destroy perfectly good people, and that's wrong. Rapists should not go free, false accusations should have real consequences. Women should feel safe and confident in their ability to report this horrible shit and it be taken care of. Men should feel safe and confident in their innocence if they have done nothing to jeopardize it. Stop acting like you've got this shit figured out, because we clearly DON'T.

This.

[cky enthusiast]

the sooner people admit the system is broken we can start to work on changing it- pretending that IG/social media is a valid method for dispensing justice, esp something as sensitive and nuanced as sexual assault is just as dumb as thinking the legal system as it stands will dispense anything resembling unbiased judgement, both in regards to sexuality as well as the history of race in this country.

trying to pretend it’s an either/or dichotomy is incredibly foolish.

fuck anyone who ever disrespects a woman.

[IpathCats]

the sooner people admit the system is broken we can start to work on changing it- pretending that IG/social media is a valid method for dispensing justice, esp something as sensitive and nuanced as sexual assault is just as dumb as thinking the legal system as it stands will dispense anything resembling unbiased judgement, both in regards to sexuality as well as the history of race in this country.

trying to pretend it’s an either/or dichotomy is incredibly foolish.

fuck anyone who ever disrespects a woman.

Nah dog, fuck nuance and grey area. I just want to pick a side and fight until nothing gets solved and we're all a lot angrier.

[labor]

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The fact that people can't recognize aspects of both of these arguments as valid, hurts my brain/heart. This is an incredibly nuanced issue, women need to be heard and protected from these creeps, but at the same time we can't have a fucking unruly witch-hunt based on words alone. Have some fucking empathy, and try to think about the downsides of your preferred course of action. Both "solutions" right now have the potential to absolutely destroy perfectly good people, and that's wrong. Rapists should not go free, false accusations should have real consequences. Women should feel safe and confident in their ability to report this horrible shit and it be taken care of. Men should feel safe and confident in their innocence if they have done nothing to jeopardize it. Stop acting like you've got this shit figured out, because we clearly DON'T.

[close]

This.

This

[RichardBarkley]

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The fact that people can't recognize aspects of both of these arguments as valid, hurts my brain/heart. This is an incredibly nuanced issue, women need to be heard and protected from these creeps, but at the same time we can't have a fucking unruly witch-hunt based on words alone. Have some fucking empathy, and try to think about the downsides of your preferred course of action. Both "solutions" right now have the potential to absolutely destroy perfectly good people, and that's wrong. Rapists should not go free, false accusations should have real consequences. Women should feel safe and confident in their ability to report this horrible shit and it be taken care of. Men should feel safe and confident in their innocence if they have done nothing to jeopardize it. Stop acting like you've got this shit figured out, because we clearly DON'T.

[close]

This.

[close]

This

This