Indy cross making a comeback?

[10staircoffin]

I always thought the Indy cross was based on the Victoria Cross, the highest military honour across the British empire. Turns out I was well of the mark.

[Mike Oxwelling]

subconsciously letting out their feelings of inadequacy across the boards in their own lives onto the message board of a dead magazine

Name checks out.

[Obijuan91]

Bring the street pirate back.

[SwitchBenihana]

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What's interesting about this topic is there are basically 2 camps:

1. People who REALLY care about the either for or against it. They're mostly confined to this thread and random faceless social media comments no one reads. Both sides are so fervent they're unwilling to listen to anything but their own arguments. No one seems to be winning any debate but who can be the most mad.

2. Everyone else who buys their trucks based on whatever preferences they may have. Indy is the most middle ground truck there is and will remain the most popular until someone comes out with something similar that has enough of a rep and track record to buy. T2 seemed close but the bushings will throw most people off and hearing "it's close to an Indy" most people will just buy the real thing.

[close]

This has the same energy as “I didn’t vote because both parties are equally bad”

I’m very open to having a discussion with someone who can explain to me why bringing back a logo that resembles a Nazi symbol that was taken away during what was essentially the second civil rights movement in the US is being brought back during the descent of fascism. Still waiting.

Also, peoples opinions aren’t just relegated to online comments and niche forums, idk where you got that impression but maybe that’s more reflective of your own outlook. Where I’m at people still talk face to face.

No, it's not remotely close. First of all I've actually posted my own position. I spent ample time trying to understand the history of the symbol overall, came to my own conclusion, and stepped to the side to not try to drown out everyone else. My wife and her family are all individuals that would theoretically be offended by this image, yet one of her brothers proudly wears it as a military medal and has a much more thorough understanding of its history that most amateur art historians on the internet. Doesn't mean their opinions trump anyone else's, just that it's been useful to have a dialogue with people that aren't seething to shit post on one another.

Simply judging by what you've written you're clearly one camp that has concluded it's 100% racist and offensive. No one is going to sway you. You'll keep coming back to arguing on behalf of a group that you're likely not even part of. There are many symbols that have been even more prominently used by hate groups including the Klan and Nazi's, but people are just ignoring those similarities in this case. They'd rather see this as an opportunity to be outspoken and satisfy their own ego and sense of self importance.

Just like the other side is ignoring the fact that it's a pretty valid point that the brand should have at least thought more deeply about this whole matter and spoken publicly about it so at the very fucking least it would seem like they acknowledge the dialogue. Brand history or not sitting there quietly shows a lack of basic maturity and respect while pandering to a segment of skaters that behave essentially just like the jocks and assholes that drive most of us into skating.

[Mallie]

No, it's not remotely close. First of all I've actually posted my own position. I spent ample time trying to understand the history of the symbol overall, came to my own conclusion, and stepped to the side to not try to drown out everyone else. My wife and her family are all individuals that would theoretically be offended by this image, yet one of her brothers proudly wears it as a military medal and has a much more thorough understanding of its history that most amateur art historians on the internet. Doesn't mean their opinions trump anyone else's, just that it's been useful to have a dialogue with people that aren't seething to shit post on one another.

For the umpteenth time - context.

It's not about the origin of the logo/symbol/visual itself, but about what it evokes/represents/conotates.

For example, of course a theoretical Jew or POC would not mind being presented with a symbol/medal reminiscent of an iron cross if it represented service in anti-fascist army etc.

But if they were presented with the same looking cross/symbol that was a dog whistle for neo-fascists and people that they stood against...?

A cross could be "just a cross". Like, pharmacists and ambulance uses "a cross" as a symbol, sure. But if a cross is stylised purposely to evoke connections with certain other controversial insignia and was, on top of that, coopted by a known fascist/racist/hate mongering subsect of people? Well, quack quack...

[Ghost Face]

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No, it's not remotely close. First of all I've actually posted my own position. I spent ample time trying to understand the history of the symbol overall, came to my own conclusion, and stepped to the side to not try to drown out everyone else. My wife and her family are all individuals that would theoretically be offended by this image, yet one of her brothers proudly wears it as a military medal and has a much more thorough understanding of its history that most amateur art historians on the internet. Doesn't mean their opinions trump anyone else's, just that it's been useful to have a dialogue with people that aren't seething to shit post on one another.

[close]

For the umpteenth time - context.

It's not about the origin of the logo/symbol/visual itself, but about what it evokes/represents/conotates.

For example, of course a theoretical Jew or POC would not mind being presented with a symbol/medal reminiscent of an iron cross if it represented service in anti-fascist army etc.

But if they were presented with the same looking cross/symbol that was a dog whistle for neo-fascists and people that they stood against...?

A cross could be "just a cross". Like, pharmacists and ambulance uses "a cross" as a symbol, sure. But if a cross is stylised purposely to evoke connections with certain other controversial insignia and was, on top of that, coopted by a known fascist/racist/hate mongering subsect of people? Well, quack quack...

THIS. It's not about what it was. It's about what it's become. It's not about the shape, it's about it being a bat signal for meathead, rasists.

I bet if the Indy tees were available online 90% of ICE agents would be wearing them under their vests.

[Alberteinstein]

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No, it's not remotely close. First of all I've actually posted my own position. I spent ample time trying to understand the history of the symbol overall, came to my own conclusion, and stepped to the side to not try to drown out everyone else. My wife and her family are all individuals that would theoretically be offended by this image, yet one of her brothers proudly wears it as a military medal and has a much more thorough understanding of its history that most amateur art historians on the internet. Doesn't mean their opinions trump anyone else's, just that it's been useful to have a dialogue with people that aren't seething to shit post on one another.

[close]

For the umpteenth time - context.

It's not about the origin of the logo/symbol/visual itself, but about what it evokes/represents/conotates.

For example, of course a theoretical Jew or POC would not mind being presented with a symbol/medal reminiscent of an iron cross if it represented service in anti-fascist army etc.

But if they were presented with the same looking cross/symbol that was a dog whistle for neo-fascists and people that they stood against...?

A cross could be "just a cross". Like, pharmacists and ambulance uses "a cross" as a symbol, sure. But if a cross is stylised purposely to evoke connections with certain other controversial insignia and was, on top of that, coopted by a known fascist/racist/hate mongering subsect of people? Well, quack quack...

[close]

THIS. It's not about what it was. It's about what it's become. It's not about the shape, it's about it being a bat signal for meathead, rasists.

I bet if the Indy tees were available online 90% of ICE agents would be wearing them under their vests.

Under the shirt of 90% of ice officers

You are truly a fucking moron

[let’s go home]

Bring the street pirate back.

Besides their crappy quality Fourstar was so fucking rad. Can we just talk about Super Champion Funzone instead of all this Indy crosslogo shittery?

[SwitchBenihana]

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No, it's not remotely close. First of all I've actually posted my own position. I spent ample time trying to understand the history of the symbol overall, came to my own conclusion, and stepped to the side to not try to drown out everyone else. My wife and her family are all individuals that would theoretically be offended by this image, yet one of her brothers proudly wears it as a military medal and has a much more thorough understanding of its history that most amateur art historians on the internet. Doesn't mean their opinions trump anyone else's, just that it's been useful to have a dialogue with people that aren't seething to shit post on one another.

[close]

For the umpteenth time - context.

It's not about the origin of the logo/symbol/visual itself, but about what it evokes/represents/conotates.

For example, of course a theoretical Jew or POC would not mind being presented with a symbol/medal reminiscent of an iron cross if it represented service in anti-fascist army etc.

But if they were presented with the same looking cross/symbol that was a dog whistle for neo-fascists and people that they stood against...?

A cross could be "just a cross". Like, pharmacists and ambulance uses "a cross" as a symbol, sure. But if a cross is stylised purposely to evoke connections with certain other controversial insignia and was, on top of that, coopted by a known fascist/racist/hate mongering subsect of people? Well, quack quack...

[close]

THIS. It's not about what it was. It's about what it's become. It's not about the shape, it's about it being a bat signal for meathead, rasists.

I bet if the Indy tees were available online 90% of ICE agents would be wearing them under their vests.

For the umpteenth time it is not recognized as a hate symbol by any law enforcement body on the planet or civil liberties groups like the ADL. It isn't a symbol of any prominent fascist or nationalist group in the United States. Guess what is? The normal cross. Yah it's remotely close to the iron cross that people take issue with, but so are other symbols used for shitty purposes and the non offensive variants aren't banned.

That's the problem with your argument you're making up this cultural relevance for which the only proof is "the people I don't like in skateboarding like it a lot and some people told me biker gangs use it". Do you think Peter Hewitt is stoked so he can slap a symbol on his board to praise strong armed immigration tactics and make it known that he dislikes minorities? Or the bro in the lifted truck is using it to represent whatever their political views may or may not be? Shit, the kids I hated in HS wore those shirts but of the ones I knew the worst was a light Bush-esque Republican and you can't assume they're automatically hardline alt right even if you don't agree with them. There is a difference.

That's where your side lost me eventually. I started out with the same position and conclusion, but when you guys realized (likely subconsciously) that your argument isn't that strong you jumped to extremes just like your opposition.

[Mallie]

For the umpteenth time it is not recognized as a hate symbol by any law enforcement body on the planet

If by "the entire planet" you mean "the USA", then yeah, it's not. In Europe? It is...

There's an entire list of off limits symbols issued by the German authorities so the people would be aware of what constitutes brandishing a hate symbol. And an SS iron cross is one of them.

Now, if you want to go into semantics of "ahhchually, the tips are slightly convex, not concave in the Indy logo", then sure, be my guest. But if you need to go into such minutiae to justify a symbol/logo - it's flawed to begin with.

[AlirezaFirouzja]

Just a regular doctors sign on a street near me. This cross is pretty normal here in Europe, I see it a lot.

Can you please PM me the name and location of this doctor’s office? I’d like to report them for hate speech.

[Democratic Republic Of Mongo]

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For the umpteenth time it is not recognized as a hate symbol by any law enforcement body on the planet

[close]

If by "the entire planet" you mean "the USA", then yeah, it's not. In Europe? It is...

There's an entire list of off limits symbols issued by the German authorities so the people would be aware of what constitutes brandishing a hate symbol. And an SS iron cross is one of them.

Now, if you want to go into semantics of "ahhchually, the tips are slightly convex, not concave in the Indy logo", then sure, be my guest. But if you need to go into such minutiae to justify a symbol/logo - it's flawed to begin with.

That’s crazy bro but it caused no harm for the decades they used it and will continue to be harmless when they bring it back. All the pseudo intellectual babbling about it affects nothing.

[Kielwasser]

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For the umpteenth time it is not recognized as a hate symbol by any law enforcement body on the planet

[close]

If by "the entire planet" you mean "the USA", then yeah, it's not. In Europe? It is...

There's an entire list of off limits symbols issued by the German authorities so the people would be aware of what constitutes brandishing a hate symbol. And an SS iron cross is one of them.

Now, if you want to go into semantics of "ahhchually, the tips are slightly convex, not concave in the Indy logo", then sure, be my guest. But if you need to go into such minutiae to justify a symbol/logo - it's flawed to begin with.

[close]

That’s crazy bro but it caused no harm for the decades they used it and will continue to be harmless when they bring it back. All the pseudo intellectual babbling about it affects nothing.

The symbol and discussion is so charged it's been co-opted by Tim Pool. The logo may have been "harmless" before it was dropped, now it is anything but. Your trivialising babbling doesn't change that.

[Sandwich Marty]

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What's interesting about this topic is there are basically 2 camps:

1. People who REALLY care about the either for or against it. They're mostly confined to this thread and random faceless social media comments no one reads. Both sides are so fervent they're unwilling to listen to anything but their own arguments. No one seems to be winning any debate but who can be the most mad.

2. Everyone else who buys their trucks based on whatever preferences they may have. Indy is the most middle ground truck there is and will remain the most popular until someone comes out with something similar that has enough of a rep and track record to buy. T2 seemed close but the bushings will throw most people off and hearing "it's close to an Indy" most people will just buy the real thing.

[close]

This has the same energy as “I didn’t vote because both parties are equally bad”

I’m very open to having a discussion with someone who can explain to me why bringing back a logo that resembles a Nazi symbol that was taken away during what was essentially the second civil rights movement in the US is being brought back during the descent of fascism. Still waiting.

Also, peoples opinions aren’t just relegated to online comments and niche forums, idk where you got that impression but maybe that’s more reflective of your own outlook. Where I’m at people still talk face to face.

[close]

No, it's not remotely close. First of all I've actually posted my own position. I spent ample time trying to understand the history of the symbol overall, came to my own conclusion, and stepped to the side to not try to drown out everyone else. My wife and her family are all individuals that would theoretically be offended by this image, yet one of her brothers proudly wears it as a military medal and has a much more thorough understanding of its history that most amateur art historians on the internet. Doesn't mean their opinions trump anyone else's, just that it's been useful to have a dialogue with people that aren't seething to shit post on one another.

Simply judging by what you've written you're clearly one camp that has concluded it's 100% racist and offensive. No one is going to sway you. You'll keep coming back to arguing on behalf of a group that you're likely not even part of. There are many symbols that have been even more prominently used by hate groups including the Klan and Nazi's, but people are just ignoring those similarities in this case. They'd rather see this as an opportunity to be outspoken and satisfy their own ego and sense of self importance.

Just like the other side is ignoring the fact that it's a pretty valid point that the brand should have at least thought more deeply about this whole matter and spoken publicly about it so at the very fucking least it would seem like they acknowledge the dialogue. Brand history or not sitting there quietly shows a lack of basic maturity and respect while pandering to a segment of skaters that behave essentially just like the jocks and assholes that drive most of us into skating.

That highlighted part was a pretty loaded sentence, but let me reply as rationally as I can so that no further misinterpretation should occur.

Just to be clear, I like Indy’s, I have multiple sets that I rotate in and out. They were on my first ever real complete back in the 90’s. I’m not just some reactionary out for blood because I hate the brand. I don’t want to boycott them. I’m calling them out on this little platform because it matters to me which direction the brand takes at such a culturally divisive time in US history.

The last fucking thing I’m gonna say about this tired ass subject here (at least until something new develops) is that I’m only upset because of the lack of transparency from Indy knowing that a group of bigots has co-opted the logo to meet their own ideology within the last 4 years. Thats literally it.

Lmk if you guys want me to just delete this thread because so far its only been a shouting match/circle jerk and we have enough of that going on everywhere else these days.

[Tuff Lover]

[MareVitals]

How many times does it have to be explained? It's not the logo or the design intentions behind it, it's the groups associated with it. Tim Pools of the world don't give a shit about the birdman graphic, they want the indy cross.

I'm waiting for Indy to make the official announcement about its return. I'm betting that with everything that has happened recently, the rollout is on ICE.

[Sandwich Marty]

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[close]

How many times does it have to be explained? It's not the logo or the design intentions behind it, it's the groups associated with it. Tim Pools of the world don't give a shit about the birdman graphic, they want the indy cross.

I'm waiting for Indy to make the official announcement about its return. I'm betting that with everything that has happened recently, the rollout is on ICE.

They decided to just go with whatever the fuck this is.

[Sandwich Marty]

[tuesday]

That eagle should have a lawn mower in one of its claws.

[Hefe43]

That eagle should have a lawn mower in one of its claws.

Saving that for the next Rhino collab

[Emo jimmy]

Designed by grok ai

[ok boomer]

Should just use a dilda as a logo. I’d buy

[Sandwich Marty]

Should just use a dilda as a logo. I’d buy

Is that like the venomous Australian version?

[Hefe43]

Should just use a dilda as a logo. I’d buy

Built to grind

[Plan9Customs]

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[close]

How many times does it have to be explained? It's not the logo or the design intentions behind it, it's the groups associated with it. Tim Pools of the world don't give a shit about the birdman graphic, they want the indy cross.

I'm waiting for Indy to make the official announcement about its return. I'm betting that with everything that has happened recently, the rollout is on ICE.

[close]

They decided to just go with whatever the fuck this is.

I literally thought this hat was a fake trolling post.
 I guess they decided to try and get the pRoud Bois to rally around this one. What fucking trade do you use a bat and 10# sledgehammer for?! Guess I’d better axle the last 2 sets I have quick so I’m no longer embarrassed by their shit. I do however, like how the eagle is well, spread eagle! The better to take that bat I guess. 🙄

[GardenSkater77]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsadler

These guys just can’t help themselves.

[Osage]

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[close]

How many times does it have to be explained? It's not the logo or the design intentions behind it, it's the groups associated with it. Tim Pools of the world don't give a shit about the birdman graphic, they want the indy cross.

I'm waiting for Indy to make the official announcement about its return. I'm betting that with everything that has happened recently, the rollout is on ICE.

[close]

They decided to just go with whatever the fuck this is.

[close]

I literally thought this hat was a fake trolling post.
 I guess they decided to try and get the pRoud Bois to rally around this one. What fucking trade do you use a bat and 10# sledgehammer for?! Guess I’d better axle the last 2 sets I have quick so I’m no longer embarrassed by their shit. I do however, like how the eagle is well, spread eagle! The better to take that bat I guess. 🙄

  Well, time for me to try Slappys I guess.

[Hefe43]

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[close]

How many times does it have to be explained? It's not the logo or the design intentions behind it, it's the groups associated with it. Tim Pools of the world don't give a shit about the birdman graphic, they want the indy cross.

I'm waiting for Indy to make the official announcement about its return. I'm betting that with everything that has happened recently, the rollout is on ICE.

[close]

They decided to just go with whatever the fuck this is.

[close]

I literally thought this hat was a fake trolling post.
 I guess they decided to try and get the pRoud Bois to rally around this one. What fucking trade do you use a bat and 10# sledgehammer for?! Guess I’d better axle the last 2 sets I have quick so I’m no longer embarrassed by their shit. I do however, like how the eagle is well, spread eagle! The better to take that bat I guess. 🙄

[close]

  Well, time for me to try Slappys I guess.

you guys know this is a rip of the great seal of the us right? I’m not defending Indy or the cross but I don’t think this one is overly malicious, it’s just dumb.

[Plan9Customs]

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[close]

How many times does it have to be explained? It's not the logo or the design intentions behind it, it's the groups associated with it. Tim Pools of the world don't give a shit about the birdman graphic, they want the indy cross.

I'm waiting for Indy to make the official announcement about its return. I'm betting that with everything that has happened recently, the rollout is on ICE.

[close]

They decided to just go with whatever the fuck this is.

[close]

I literally thought this hat was a fake trolling post.
 I guess they decided to try and get the pRoud Bois to rally around this one. What fucking trade do you use a bat and 10# sledgehammer for?! Guess I’d better axle the last 2 sets I have quick so I’m no longer embarrassed by their shit. I do however, like how the eagle is well, spread eagle! The better to take that bat I guess. 🙄

[close]

  Well, time for me to try Slappys I guess.

[close]

you guys know this is a rip of the great seal of the us right? I’m not defending Indy or the cross but I don’t think this one is overly malicious, it’s just dumb.

I get what they ripped it from BUT the hammer and bat? Tools of the trade? What trade uses a bat? Also black with yellow stitching?
Nah fuck that shit. It’s WAY to close to some white power/pRoud bois shit. Even if it was 100% unintentional, not gonna be giving them another cent so dumb fucks can cosplay white nationalists. Sucks since I’ve been riding them since 86 but shits over now. They’ve shit the bed too many times for me.

[Bupstop]

I don’t really understand that logo either. Feels likes a Ramones rip off to me but what does a bat and sledgehammer have to do with skateboarding?