Mike Sinclair a Douche?

[skate_bored]

also to add: mike is not a douche.  I showed him around with the foundation guys once or twice and my memory really sucks but he bought me a case of beer or gave me some product for the help. i couldnt imagine having that damn job, babysitting a bunch of 20 year old guys. stop for an 30 minutes at the gas station, stop for another 30 minutes at starbucks, somehow decide on the Cracker Barrel for lunch for 2 hours (and if theres a vegan on the team youre fucked!), get back in the van and hopefully you are at the 4pm demo by 9pm. if nick merlino doesnt shit his pants then its a good day!

[b.v.]

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nothing suspect about his reasoning. typically guys local shops carry/supprt the brands that picks up the "home town hero" and he ran into a weird situation that wasnt helping the company.

[close]

agreed, but my point is that there may have been other shops in FL or wherever that picked up Dekline BECAUSE of Gore.  And there may be people that bought Dekline BECAUSE they wanted to support Ben.  And just because it doesn't go through MIA, doesn't mean that he's not helping to increase the brands visibility, and the desire for people to buy them.  So it seems odd to let him go from the team because of that.  But this is just my opinion.  I respect Sinclair for explaining the reasoning behind it.  Just not sure if I entirely agree with it. 

[close]

i agree with you and understand the reasoning at the same time. i think the idea was that his presence in a city, MIA or SF, is supposed to help bring that brand to the limelight in that city. miami and SF have huge skate scenes and if his promotion of the brand isnt even working in the city he skates, it must be a sign of something more being the problem.

But really, what shop in the city has wall space for Dekline?
I am sure FTC had them when Mike York was on, maybe that soured them on the brand.
All I am saying is as A skater their job is keeping people interested in the brand, not being a salesman.
If Ben was in good with a shop, he could try to help build it up, do events,giveaways etc but as A mostly unpid or low paid am/pro, he is touring A lot, and expecting him to single handedly convince the buyer that Dekline should be part of their buy is a bit off.
I understand they're A small skate brand,it falls on many peoples heads to help build the brand but I just think it's a silly main reason for letting someone go.
Small brands like Magenta are gaining steam, talk to the woodshop that makes their boards for confirmation on the amount they sell.
Just makes sense to keep the underground lit. Seems like a missed opportunity to develop A potential market.
 

[work lurk]

it's really interesting hearing first hand about the way the skate industry operates, I personally appreciate it, Mike. It's refreshing getting the truth without all the speculation, hearsay and random rumors that a lot of Slap posters love to make threads about. Skateboarding is a business whether it be corporate or "core" and it seems like a real bummer having to make tough business moves in such a tight knight community that skateboarding is.

[stevedave]

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nothing suspect about his reasoning. typically guys local shops carry/supprt the brands that picks up the "home town hero" and he ran into a weird situation that wasnt helping the company.

[close]

agreed, but my point is that there may have been other shops in FL or wherever that picked up Dekline BECAUSE of Gore.� And there may be people that bought Dekline BECAUSE they wanted to support Ben.� And just because it doesn't go through MIA, doesn't mean that he's not helping to increase the brands visibility, and the desire for people to buy them.� So it seems odd to let him go from the team because of that.� But this is just my opinion.� I respect Sinclair for explaining the reasoning behind it.� Just not sure if I entirely agree with it.�

[close]

i agree with you and understand the reasoning at the same time. i think the idea was that his presence in a city, MIA or SF, is supposed to help bring that brand to the limelight in that city. miami and SF have huge skate scenes and if his promotion of the brand isnt even working in the city he skates, it must be a sign of something more being the problem.

Fully.  but the thing/problem isn't Ben.  SF has a huge skate scene, but you'll notice that the shops in SF carry mostly brands from within the city.  With shoes it's a bit different, but you don't see Tum Yeto products at FTC or Deluxe, etc all that often.  there's pros in sf that dont have their boards in every shop here, but that doesnt mean they shouldn't be on the team.  i guess my point is that it seems strange to let someone go for the lack of support in 1 or 2 cities, when there's PLENTY of other places that DO have support for the brand because of that dude...

[Makaveli]

the ben gore thing probably has more to do with stereo than the bs MIA story. dune has serious pull inside the industry, wouldn't doubt if stereo has something to do with this. sorry mike, but i dont buy you're story. and if i am wrong, and that is the truth, then thats really pathetic of you guys. bc you said you know why his shop doesnt carry your stuff, but he still got dropped as if he could've changed that.

[MisterX]

Question 6: Is Ben Gore off Dekline?

Slap Pals, it saddens me that recently I have had to let Ben Gore go from the Dekline team. Did he get kicked off? Well... not really but yeah he's off the team. I'll break it down the best I can for you all to digest and pick apart. Did I kick Ben off for him switching from Stereo to Magenta? No, I told Ben I would support his switch no matter what brand he ended up on. Did I say that I would like him to stick it out and stay with Stereo instead of going to to Magenta? Yes and this is the reason why. I like Stereo, I always have and probably always will. Stereo has a ton of history, it's a true skateboard company (not that Magenta is not) and it's owned by one of my all time favorite skateboarders Jason Lee. Do I dislike Magenta? No, not at all what so ever. In my opinion it's a safer bet to stick with a company that's been around for two decades when you are a new Pro. Small companies start up everyday and if you ride for a new company and they go under in 6 months, it's really tough to get picked up again as a Pro somewhere else. At the next trade show in two weeks there will be 3-5 new brands, does anyone think all of them will make it? I hope they all do but most likely not all of them will. Do I hope Magenta makes it? Fuck yes I hope they make it! Do I think Magenta will only last 6 months? No I think they will make it happen no matter what, that's what skater owned brands do, they always make it work. So back to Ben, have you seen his nollie flips? They are a thing of beauty.. His skating is so rad to me. I personally picked him for Dekline about four years ago and I gave him more ads than any of his sponsors during his time on Dekline. Ben wore the shoes and really like the shoes we make, we discussed a colorway for him and I back him and his skating 110%. So why is he off? Reason 1: Ben rides for MIA Skateshop and they do not carry Dekline. This is not to bad mouth or to point the finger at MIA at all, they sell what works for them and what the people are influenced by in their area. I personally know the owners of MIA but I would never ask them to carry something that does not work for them, plus I'm not in sales. Ben lives in SF but does not ride for a shop in SF. I don't even think we have a Dekline account in SF to tell you the truth. All of the other current team riders ride for shops that really get behind Dekline and that is honestly what we need to survive. We are a really small brand and every sell we get really makes a difference for us, Dekline paid Ben every month for the past 4 years and promoted him to the fullest yet we can't influence any shop he is down with to carry our product... This is not Ben's fault, this is not MIA's fault, this is not Dekline's fault, this just sucks plain and simple....So what do we do? We have to move on, we have to support the guys who support us. Do any of the guys on this forum asking about Ben and why he's off Dekline have a pair of Dekline's on? I would be super hyped if you did. If you do PM me and I'll send you a new pair if you really have a current pair of Dekline's that you skate in and you back Ben Gore or back Dekline in general. This is the shitty part of being a TM, the team always changes and this change was not performance based. It just comes down to brand and rider support. We supported Ben to the fullest but got no support back. I flow a kid in NYC and he won a gift card from a local contest last week, he told me he went to the shop and bought two pairs of Dekline's even though he gets whatever he wants for free from me anytime. I thought that was the coolest thing the kid could of done for us. That's real support! That's the love we need to make this small skateboarding shoe company work. Ben, we love you and I know you will find a good place my friend. I told Ben I would keep his name on our team list until he finds something that works for him. If any TM's are thinking of putting Ben on their team you should, he's mellow to hang with, he's a fucking ripper and has style for days. Ben, thank you for being a part of Dekline these past four years! I can't tell you how much I would like for you to still be on this tiny little skateboard team. Mike Sinclair 

I had so many pairs of the Shun Mid, and Sixers.  I skated for a shop and was supposed to be on flow when Dekline first started, but ended just buying them all the time because they were great shoes.  I remember the insoles being crazy thick, but then packing in nicely.  Not looking for free shoes, or brown nosing just saying they have always skated really well.  Some of the newer models look good but are hard to find and like someone else mentioned, it's hard to buy shoes online without trying them on sometimes. 

[The Ghost of Lenny Kirk]

I dunno guys, the people who tend to like ben gore probably bought a couple pairs of adidas, gravis' or nikes and dekline is somewhere off the radar, even if we're talking discount bin. they didnt gain much by having him on and didnt lose much either. What it does do is free up cash so they can put someone else on thats a little more down for tum yeto stuff which makes sense if you ask me. Even if he put ben back on right now its not like anybody would rush out to buy a pair of deklines.

[stickman1980]

[Fake Tits]

I remember at the time it happened...

Me - crazy how Ben Gore is off Stereo.

Homie who works for Stereo - really!?!? Where did you hear that?

Me - Slap

Homie - well he wasn't doing much for us anyway.

I never really asked anything else about that whole deal after that.

[oyolar]

Ah yes--because Stereo is a fountain of productivity.

[Fake Tits]

That's why I didn't ask anything else. 

[MFS]

Stereo is just god awful at this point. Dune has pull at dekline because e has been a brand embassadour since like 2008. He got Gore booted straight up. Vanilla fudge sinclair can claim whatever, and this is coming from someone who likes Gore and has had 20+ pairs of deklines and ordered them in a shop as a buyer for years.

Stereo is garbage, magenta on the other hand has almost a full paycheck from me at this point.

[oyolar]

I'm glad Sinclair is down with Magenta considering Soy Panday was sponsored by Dekline for a while when they were starting out and forming an identity.  I remember Dekline was pretty weird for a little while.  It was Gilley, Melcher, Stehr, and Cyril Mountain at first.  The Shiloh Greathouse and Yorkatron were on with Dune and Jason Lee.  Then Soy Panday, Ollie Todd, Adam Dyet, Jason Adams.  I'm probably forgetting people too.  That's an odd pedigree especially because a lot of those people overlapped with one another.

Anyone know what Dekline didn't give out pro models for the longest time?

[waltercronkite]

not backing the call to let go of Gore. i love old stereo and i love jason lee but magenta has a brighter future than stereo does and as an added bonus my stereo board sucked and basically snapped when i stepped on it and magenta boards are amazing so...

not really a fan of tum yeto though thats solely based on the fact that i think Swank is a big giant turd

[Fake Tits]

The stereo board I'm riding has one of the best shapes ever. Still poppy after a fair while too.

And I'm not saying that because it was free.

[Tum Yeto]

Question 7

Toy Machine boards and Foundation boards on Watson and some on Bareback? 

A few years back Toy Machine started using Bareback wood a little more in the line then it sort of trickled into Foundation a bit. Not all Toy Machine and Foundation boards are Bareback and yes we still use and own Watson Mfg. Provost loves Watson so his (8.3) shape is pressed on Watson wood and is available now. Ed loves Watson wood, Duffel only skates Watson wood and a few of the other guys go back and forth sometimes skating Watson and sometimes skating Bareback. If you really want to find out what board is on Watson and that's all you wish to ride call 1 800 TUM YETO and ask the sales department to help you out. All of our sales guys skate, they are all super cool and they can help get your local shop sorted out.

[smokecrack]

fuck you Sinclair. Magenta is str8 flamez.



(ps. dropping Ben Gore was a total bitch move.)

[The Ghost of Lenny Kirk]

We all wanna know how many gay people are in this industry sinclair. Gotta give the people what they wannt!

[Shamalamalon]

the ben gore thing probably has more to do with stereo than the bs MIA story. dune has serious pull inside the industry, wouldn't doubt if stereo has something to do with this. sorry mike, but i dont buy you're story. and if i am wrong, and that is the truth, then thats really pathetic of you guys. bc you said you know why his shop doesnt carry your stuff, but he still got dropped as if he could've changed that.

Yeah, isnt dune on dekline now..? Obviously he had not been repping a shop that carry deklines for the last 4 yrs so why wait so long to pull the trigger. Im not saying he's wrong for what he did, but i think there is some truth to your point. I mean if that shit was such a big deal, you wait a full 4yrs before you kick him off...If that shit really mattered he would have been off after the 4Q results were in on his first year..

[darkslideoftheforce]

For how long was Nick Merlino butthurt over this pretty epic prank call? What was the beef with him and Jon Dickson?

[heckler]

We all wanna know how many gay people are in this industry sinclair. Gotta give the people what they wannt!

Actually, that's just you. No one else really cares.

[The Drew]

For how long was Nick Merlino butthurt over this pretty epic prank call? What was the beef with him and Jon Dickson?

i forgot all about that prank call... legendary stuff

[Makaveli]

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the ben gore thing probably has more to do with stereo than the bs MIA story. dune has serious pull inside the industry, wouldn't doubt if stereo has something to do with this. sorry mike, but i dont buy you're story. and if i am wrong, and that is the truth, then thats really pathetic of you guys. bc you said you know why his shop doesnt carry your stuff, but he still got dropped as if he could've changed that.

[close]

Yeah, isnt dune on dekline now..? Obviously he had not been repping a shop that carry deklines for the last 4 yrs so why wait so long to pull the trigger. Im not saying he's wrong for what he did, but i think there is some truth to your point. I mean if that shit was such a big deal, you wait a full 4yrs before you kick him off...If that shit really mattered he would have been off after the 4Q results were in on his first year..

dune is apparently revamping ipath right now actually, but his influence inside the industry is huge. he reps for a number of brands, idk about dekline anymore, but i think its a safe bet they had something to do with it.

[Hairy Ballsagna]

Attn Industry professionals: Stereo may be Tincan Folklore 90s radness to you, but it's a scientologist kook from a TV show who happens to own a skateboard company to your core demographic.

[Tum Yeto]

Question 9: I don?t understand or believe the Ben Gore situation.

Some of you get the Ben Gore situation some of you just sit back and speculate that there is more to the story. We?ll you are right there is more to this story and l hope this gives you all a clear picture of how big Dekline is and why the decisions like this have to eventually be made. Dekline is two people, myself and Kevin Furtado. Since we have more team riders and 1099 workers IE Filmer, designer etc than employees, I?m sure you can imagine budgets are very tight and like I said before every sale, every supporting shop and every rider counts. Do you know of any other skater owned shoe brands that are this small? I?m sure there are a few but do the ones you know of advertise in the magazines each month, travel, pay their team riders on time every month, send out promo anytime it?s needed and so on? I handle all of the marketing, team, ads, team selection, team kick offs and travel. Kevin handles all of the budgeting, catalogs, visiting the shoe factories and making sure the company stays in the positive. Swank allows us to use Tum Yeto?s sales and shipping since Dekline is under the Tum Yeto umbrella, the company would probably only have 1 rider if we were not able to partner up with Tum Yeto. Ben was someone I personally chose for Dekline. Why did it take so long for him to get let go? Since I picked Ben personally I wanted to make it work as long as I possibly could. In the end there just wasn?t enough support to float Ben a monthly salary any longer. A lot of companies are big enough to do this for many more years, not Dekline. If we had a large budget and could do these type of things it would be nice, I want Ben on Dekline like I said I personally asked him to be on the team and I love and respect his skating no question there at all. Plain and simple, one of our riders just went Pro and we just added a new am this year so the budgets get very very tight when these things happen. Dakota is the am that just went Pro and Active the shop he rides for has asked Dekline for a exclusive color way for their stores to support Dakota and Dekline. This is one example of the support that helps keep us going and we can?t thank Active enough. Blake Carpenter is the am we just added, he is from Florida and the shop he rides for kills it with Dekline. We more than appreciate this type of support and it?s the support we must have to survive. When our team grows our budget does not grow with it, would be nice if it did. Ben Gore was unfortunately one of our Pro riders with the least support so it puts him and I and now all of us in a crappy situation. End of story?..

[Bobby Peru]

Ben lives in SF but does not ride for a shop in SF. I don't even think we have a Dekline account in SF to tell you the truth.

There's a clothing store down the street from FTC called Piper's that carries Dekline, but FTC, DLXSF, and Mission do not.

Sinclair, for some constructive(?) criticism, I've wanted to support Dekline because they're a skater-owned company and have some good looking models as of late (particularly the Tim Tim) but I've never been able to commit because the insoles are too beefy for my taste. This is why the shop I used to work for in Michigan wasn't able to sell them and make more than a couple orders, and I assume why other shops have problems as well, and it's unfortunate that Ben is taking the brunt of these issues.

[oyolar]

Another constructive critique--maybe look into designing a cupsole shoe or two.  If you look at other people's catalogs, there are a few notable cupsoles in there except for Dekline.

I like the Archer and the photos for Bennett's shoes, so I don't think design is your problem.

[Tum Yeto]

Oyolar, we just got in a new cup sole shoe called the Dalton yesterday. I'm super hyped on it! Jaws has a cup sole that we be shown at the Trade Show next week too and I think his shoe rules! It took us a little longer than expected to make a cup sole we were excited about. Hope you back it as much as we do! Thanks for the feedback!

[Tim_Smith]

man this thread is awesome, thank you sinclair for answering these questions, it's tight hearing some inside scoop on things and makes me want to buy some deklines now (I know how hard it is to run a small business and makes me wanna support you guys). I only had one pair but they didn't fit right, I need to find a shop so I can try some on. i always see justin damer wearing them and he makes them look sick!

[poster]

Question 9: I don?t understand or believe the Ben Gore situation.

Did i miss question/answer 8? Mike, are you cheating us?