Author Topic: Refugee crisis in Europe.  (Read 66867 times)

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Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #240 on: January 26, 2016, 06:15:47 AM »
It is really inhuman that these people have to go on foot every time they approach the borders of a european state because governments won't help them... 






ChuckRamone

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #241 on: January 26, 2016, 06:54:18 AM »

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #242 on: January 26, 2016, 06:58:14 AM »
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regardless of DM's reputation, the fact is that they are merely posting the news that originated from sweden. It is vital for everyone to accept that there will be a certain percentage of "bad apples" among the refugees and deal with them accordingly
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Not all refugees are sweet hearts and great people, thats obvious. But we cannot refuse to help them because of some stupid fucks between them. Stupid/bad people exist everywere, not just between refugees like Monty tries to paint.
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Sums it up pretty much.


Monty i'd wanna have  a constructive debate but after reading all threads related to this I can see you're ONLY willing to see the bad examples and not willing to factor in all other refugees.  You've choose your side and no matter what you're not gonna back down (common theme i've seen in social media debates/battles). Nothing personal but there many Europeans PALS who are stating  in these threads "yes there some fucked up refugees while the rest are okay".

Before the mass influx of refugees from the Iraq / syrian war I was more for helping refugees , and having a discution about how many refugees europe and sweden should take . But all I see now is a huge refugee problems thats going to destroy parts of EU and Sweden .

This is causing massive support to right wing and extreme right wing parties , the schengen agreement is probably going to die , borders are back up . Goverments are falling to pieces . And as failing as integration was before this crisis , its going to get even worse 

fulfillthedream

you are right . I dont really see any argument that would change my mind on this subject . I used to be pretty open about accepting refugees . They need help , But after seeing what happens when you do help them . I really dont think we should help them by letting them into the EU . We should help them stay in their own countries . Military intervention and aid programs

I decided awhile ago not to post more in this thread , its not going anywhere , but seeing all those headlines in the span of 1 day really pissed me off , so I posted


Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind .  Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ?  Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?

About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water .  I dont see tufty making threads about that

Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #243 on: January 26, 2016, 07:48:31 AM »


Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind .  Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ?  Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?

About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water .  I dont see tufty making threads about that


  Well I am not mother Teressa and you should stop using bullshit "arguments" that are popular within fascist groups if you dont wanna be called out the "N" word. I only post whatever I like, however I get a pleasure from posting things that agitate racist cunts. Life is not the bubble europe made for you and I will post even things that disturb you and you cant justify without coming out like a douche. Life is not about our miserable existance and what pleases us deal with it.

 I cant justify the situation in Europe and I wont try to like you do. I am ashamed of western civilization and its hypocrisy, you just try to preserve it even by covertly telling me  to shut the fuck up. I am ashamed of people like you. Fuck you!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 08:13:56 AM by Tufty »

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #244 on: January 26, 2016, 08:13:07 AM »
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Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind .  Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ?  Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?

About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water .  I dont see tufty making threads about that

[close]

  Well I am not mother Teressa and you should stop using bullshit "arguments" that are popular within fascist groups if you dont wanna be called out the "N" word. I only post whatever I like, however I get a pleasure from posting things that agitate racist cunts.

 I cant justify the situation in Europe and I wont try to like you do. I am ashamed of western civilization and its hypocrisy, you just try to preserve it even by covertly telling me  to shut the fuck up. I am ashamed of people like you. Fuck you!

You know , I dont like you , but now atleast I understand you

You hate yourself . You are ashamed of western civilization and what you think is hypocrisy , and yet you want to join it , you want to the join and work for the big powerful corporations . In a way its kinda impressive . I could never betray myself and my beliefs like that

No wonder you lash out at people with insults , everyday must be hell for you

Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #245 on: January 26, 2016, 08:28:33 AM »
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Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind .  Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ?  Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?

About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water .  I dont see tufty making threads about that

[close]

  Well I am not mother Teressa and you should stop using bullshit "arguments" that are popular within fascist groups if you dont wanna be called out the "N" word. I only post whatever I like, however I get a pleasure from posting things that agitate racist cunts.

 I cant justify the situation in Europe and I wont try to like you do. I am ashamed of western civilization and its hypocrisy, you just try to preserve it even by covertly telling me  to shut the fuck up. I am ashamed of people like you. Fuck you!
[close]

You know , I dont like you , but now atleast I understand you

You hate yourself . You are ashamed of western civilization and what you think is hypocrisy , and yet you want to join it , you want to the join and work for the big powerful corporations . In a way its kinda impressive . I could never betray myself and my beliefs like that

No wonder you lash out at people with insults , everyday must be hell for you

 Well I wont go into self destructing mode and self-suffering just so idiots like you can tell me that I live upon my beliefs. Frankly you dont have a clue about my beliefs, as you cant/dont want to understand far simpler things. I am clear about this topic in real confessions thread and if you cant accept/comprehend this I dont give a fuck.

 West is the best thing there is but is it a good thing? NO!!!!  Everyone wants a piece of it. No doubt!!! However West is far from what it markets to be and besides that it is my home. I dont hate myself, I hate people around me that think like you and cater this mess. I have people I love and they would hate you too.  

 I really wish I am wrong but our beloved EUrope turns into something new. Sadly something worse and dark. I cant really love people that cater this transformation and sure it doesnt make me happy, as we are talking about friends, family and innocent people who will suffer. If that doesnt infuriate you, you are a piece of shit. I am sure you are.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 08:38:20 AM by Tufty »

posguy

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #246 on: January 26, 2016, 09:01:50 AM »
Even though you may be a part of the western culture, you're still allowed to dislike it and it's affects on the world. There were germans who hated what their country was doing and didn't agree with the war. You should read more if you think the west isn't hypocritical in it's dealings with the rest of the world.

Tufty

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excitableboy

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #248 on: January 26, 2016, 02:05:17 PM »


you are right . I dont really see any argument that would change my mind on this subject . I used to be pretty open about accepting refugees . They need help , But after seeing what happens when you do help them . I really dont think we should help them by letting them into the EU . We should help them stay in their own countries . Military intervention and aid programs


Ok, I'll give it one more go. Like Skatan said, there are bad apples everywhere. But I understand what you are afraid of.

Not a single Arabic country makes the top 100 in the Gender Gap Index. And it's true that in Islamic countries the statistics on rape are off the charts (over 99% of women in Egypt have been sexually assaulted at least once in their life). It actually is pretty likely that, in that respect, there are more bad apples among the refugees than there are among 'us'. Much the same is true of Latin-America, by the way, but we shouldn't be afraid to acknowledge this about the places people are fleeing from.

But we also shouldn't let that undermine the values which western civilization is, supposedly, built on. For all our hypocrisy and greed, our states' inability and/or reluctance to withstand corporate influence and so on, those European states still are some of the best places to live in, especially in terms of human rights and equality.

Values which we are now hoarding. Countries are taking refugees' money under the embarrassingly flimsy pretext of having them pay for their accommodation. A child can figure out these confiscations won't make a dent, that it is just an uninspired measure to appease disgruntled Danes and Germans. Refugees have to wait three years to reunite their families? It's symbolic politics at its worst, and you might as well call it bullying. But it functions in detracting from the reality, that we are going to have to cooperate as European countries, and throw a shitload of money at this, because it is worth that to us. The same way Sweden doesn't do life sentencing, because it gives people the benefit of the doubt, the opportunity to better themselves. We aim for rehabilitation rather than condemnation, and grant human rights to everyone. If those are indeed our values.

How else do you see this play out? The refugees will come. We have started intervening, sent our militaries, but the influx continues and will continue for some time. So they'll go elsewhere, becoming even more marginalized than they already were. People will look back on this moment in time, and what will they see? Thousands of desperate people came into the continent, thousands more died en route. We put up barracks and fed, clothed and washed them. Educated their children where we could. Then some of them got violent and we went,

Fuck this shit. Here's the plan: close the gate. Drone their deserts and let Dubai take the fuckers. We'll keep the ones we already have in the barracks for a few more years, until eventually we have to let them stay, what with all their children becoming practically native here. By then the public will empathise with them because it'll be heartwarming to them how well they speak our language. It'll blow over.

Is that a good look for our enlightened western civilization?

Esquivel

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #249 on: January 27, 2016, 03:07:06 AM »
in very few words:

western civilization has been built and further on has flourished through the exploitation of poor countries. This is written in all history books. Refugees entering Europe and europeans complaining over this?


ha


ha


ha

man up, biatch
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Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #250 on: January 27, 2016, 04:13:55 PM »
Frontex admited after greek government that sealing the sea border with turkey is impossible and this happened...



Another solution is this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12119799/Greece-threatened-with-expulsion-from-Schengen-free-movement-zone.html

EU is already a bad joke.

Mouth

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #251 on: January 27, 2016, 04:24:41 PM »
That's what you get for blackmailing Europe when you're already dead weight.
'No Mouth, you have a negative rep because you are a fan of growing your wealth off of the backs of low paid workers and brag about having bodyguards. You literally kook people for doing charity in South East Asia. Don't deny it.'

Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #252 on: January 27, 2016, 05:16:22 PM »
 Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.

iKobrakai

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #253 on: January 28, 2016, 03:08:33 AM »

Hercules Rockefeller

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #254 on: January 28, 2016, 03:28:11 AM »
Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.

if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.

Esquivel

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #255 on: January 28, 2016, 04:09:05 AM »
The one and only solution is to shut down all weapon factories and confiscate their assets and get rid of any kind of army. By ending war globally a lot of people (especially of the Donald Gump orientation) would get pissed off but this would stop all the misery. As time goes past, refugees will integrate with the locals and no more refugees will be produced as the world will be in peace. If certain countries are in need for oil and general resources of any kind they should then be able to either extract oil in their own premises or buy these resources instead of bombing the fuck out of innocent people in the name of liberation/freedom. I am pretty sure that the majority of weapons used in terrorist operations come from countries with the biggest "terrorism" problems. This is fair in my opinion. Not a good thing, just very fair.

#supplyanddemand

or vice versa

#demandandsupply
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Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #256 on: January 28, 2016, 04:42:55 AM »
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
[close]

if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.

Day by day people in Greece change their position towards EU. In the summer 60/40 was roughly the percentage of pro-EU/Anti-EU greeks, even though 62% voted for NO in the referendum about the bail out (the government chose to follow the YES after the European blackmail which was called a coup by media worldwide) which clearly entailed the danger of getting kicked out of EU and Eurozone. I am pretty sure that after all these months the situation is more Anti-EU than ever by a vast majority. I am pretty sure that the average greek will rather eat stones for the rest of their lives than have blood on their hands. However the government cant imagine themselves outside EU and the opposition is the neoliberal-far right of Mitsotakis that is favoured by European media and EU political circles. Anyway I think that the existence of EU is on a countdown anyway, another crisis is going to happen and there are at least 7 countries (among them France) that are in deep shit economically-wise like Greece waiting to blow up, Greece was the weakest and blew up first.

We are living in a period of transformation and thats where monsters like Nazis get born. That's a good book I bought Yesterday  and is relevant on the matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Transformation_(book)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 05:19:33 AM by Tufty »

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #257 on: January 28, 2016, 08:17:42 AM »
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
[close]

if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.

Think about that for a second . Lets say 10 refugees landed on your door step . Can you take responsibility for them ? make sure they get to school , get health care , medical and dental care . They get food and clothes . Make sure they learn Austrian  , find a job for them

Do you have room for 10 of them ? can you have any kind of life with 10 syrians living in your place .  What if 1 of them is a rapist . Can you justify taking in 10 refugees if 1 of them is gonna rape your mother , or stab your father ?

Is it worth saving 10 people if one of them will stab your father to death ?  . I mean the other 9 are innocent people right .

I see that example around here alot . Theres always afew bad apples right

You think the parents or sisters and brothers of the swedish girl who got stabbed to death gives a shit that not all of them are bad apples ? Im pretty sure they would let him die , maybe 100 or 1000 refugees die if it would stop their kid dying

iKobrakai

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #258 on: January 28, 2016, 09:23:14 AM »
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
[close]

if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.
[close]

Make sure they learn Austrian 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Austria Obscure much?

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #259 on: January 28, 2016, 09:24:59 AM »
Montys problem is solved:

http://www.thelocal.se/20160128/sweden-to-hire-planes-to-send-back-80000-migrants

Solved and solved . Thats 80000 people who didnt have to be here to start with and 80000 people who took up spots for REAL refugees who needed to be here . Not to mention the millions , maybe billions we spent on them and will spend on them to get them back to where they come from .

Money sweden could have used for infrastructure , healthcare , schools , youth programs and intergration programs for refugees

Sweden also has a problem with telling people they are being deported in afew months , and then having these people dissaper in sweden


Its in swedish so ill give a cliff note

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20 refugees in Sweden riot and trash their refugee centre . Destroying furniture , doors , throwing furniture out of windows . Staff locked themselves into a room to escape threats of violence and fearing for their lives

http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/storbrak-pa-hem-for-ensamkommande/


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Man carrying two guns and a copy of the Koran hidden in a bag is arrested at Euro Disney in Paris

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421261/Man-carrying-two-guns-arrested-police-DisneyLand-Paris.html


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Volunteer who claimed a migrant had dropped dead outside Berlin registration centre after waiting outside for days admits he LIED in a bid to win sympathy for asylum seekers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421029/Volunteer-claimed-migrant-dropped-dead-outside-Berlin-registration-centre-waiting-outside-days-admits-LIED-bid-win-sympathy-asylum-seekers.html

Frank

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #260 on: January 28, 2016, 10:11:04 AM »
monty, i always liked you and your most of the time down to earth approach to social and political topics, although i often couldnt agree, but...

assuming that amongst 10 random people of another nationality or race there must at least be one rapist among them is, in fact, racist.

that said, would you take in 10 random fellow swedes? i mean sweden apparently has a really high sex crime rate. of course, this is all due to influx of muslim men, duh...

http://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-countries-with-maximum-rape-crimes/

you should just admit outright that you're at least a little racist, because there's no denying anymore. not even shaming you for it, but you come up with the lamest, most played out, paranoid right wing thoughts, i#m almost thinking you started trolling in the last few weeks. this and calling the cops from over sweden because a wannabe artists smashes lobster tanks in ny... i wonder what you could achieve in your immediate surroundings in do-goodery if you took the same time talking to actual refugees about what they've seen, what they want to live like in sweden, get into a dialogue, you know.

maybe you did that, maybe not, but whatever, stop masking your ludicrous fantasy stories about what couldawoulda happen as something like the stand of a concerned citizen. it's at least very reactionary, and your last post about hypothetical rapists among hypothetical groups of syrians that you fear will rape your mom/sister/gf/any woman in your surroundings shows how backwards you think about this subject. if you would fear violence against woman in general, you already had plenty of reasons to be afraid about rape in sweden before, but i bet you never were. all of a sudden, you are tho. you are a reactionary racist.

EDIT: again, evidenced by your last post, hastily providing links to stories about young muslim men that plot terror acts and vandalize, yet there is no context given by you or any opinion as to why you think this happens. for the record, i think your country especially and my own did a lot wrong in taking in that many refugees, but i don't blame their failures on the refugees coming here. they are here, now we will have to deal with them, like it or not.

good for you then that your countries leaders seem to share the same concerns, tho it is up to you how you act towards people, be it with general distrust or a more welcoming, optimistic approach. i know that the whole thing is a logistical disaster, but i will not suddenly start to assume every refugee or migrant from north african or arabic states is a terroristor rapist.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 10:58:12 AM by Frank »

iKobrakai

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #261 on: January 28, 2016, 10:36:46 AM »
I´ve been following this thread from day one and still dont understand Montys stand:

1) Are all or just some muslims the main problem?
2) Are all or just some refugees the main problem?
3) Some arbitrary combination of above?




Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #262 on: January 28, 2016, 11:14:32 AM »
 
I�ve been following this thread from day one and still dont understand Montys stand:

1) Are all or just some muslims the main problem?
2) Are all or just some refugees the main problem?
3) Some arbitrary combination of above?

He is just an afraid human being. He is afraid of the changes happening around him and he wants to be left alone. He is not emotionally willing or/and mentally capable of fully understanding what's wrong. He is very affected by the elites propaganda that is everywhere around us and  falls into the pitfalls they create so that the weaker turn against each other. He is afraid of going against someone more powerful than him so he resorts in blaming those under him to feel better.He just wants to be left alone in his peace and he wont bother supporting genocides for his cause. He functions with survival insticts and not logical thought. A fine soil for fascism. The average European citizen...
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 11:16:46 AM by Tufty »

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #263 on: January 28, 2016, 11:27:33 AM »
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monty, i always liked you and your most of the time down to earth approach to social and political topics, although i often couldnt agree, but...

You know I hope this doesnt change . Just cause Im against mass immigration of refugees doesnt mean my other views , and trying to be as nice to people as possible changes

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assuming that amongst 10 random people of another nationality or race there must at least be one rapist among them is, in fact, racist.  that said, would you take in 10 random fellow swedes? i mean sweden apparently has a really high sex crime rate. of course, this is all due to influx of muslim men, duh...

2 things about that , Ive had a very busy day and Im exhausted . I asked a question to Herc , not everybody ells . And I picked the number 10 cause its more close to what would fit in a house . Not the exact number of refugees that are actually coming to europe or actual crime statistics .

Im not sure why Sweden has this high sexual assault / Rape statistics . Growing up we got excellent school information about violence and sexual assault on women. And we had a strong feminist political views and so on .

I want to read more about it but Im having huge problems finding information who is committing these assults on women . How many % is committed by Swedes ? how many by foreign born people ?  and so on

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you should just admit outright that you're at least a little racist, because there's no denying anymore. not even shaming you for it, but you come up with the lamest, most played out, paranoid right wing thoughts, i#m almost thinking you started trolling in the last few weeks. this and calling the cops from over sweden because a wannabe artists smashes lobster tanks in ny... i wonder what you could achieve in your immediate surroundings in do-goodery if you took the same time talking to actual refugees about what they've seen, what they want to live like in sweden, get into a dialogue, you know.

How racist on the racist scale am I ? and against who ? . I never called the cops on Shawn Powers . People assumed I did but if you read through the thread you can see I never did . I was asking somebody to do it . Now this is cause I work in the restaurant business and I would be fucking pissed if I showed up at my work places and the windows were smashed . Adding the animal cruility is just a bonus to add to that asshole

And my do goodery reflects on things that happen every day in life . I would list things , but Alan would come out of the woodworks and accuse me of using "friend" arguments and making up things about my personal life

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maybe you did that, maybe not, but whatever, stop masking your ludicrous fantasy stories about what couldawoulda happen as something like the stand of a concerned citizen. it's at least very reactionary, and your last post about hypothetical rapists among hypothetical groups of syrians that you fear will rape your mom/sister/gf/any woman in your surroundings shows how backwards you think about this subject. if you would fear violence against woman in general, you already had plenty of reasons to be afraid about rape in sweden before, but i bet you never were. all of a sudden, you are tho. you are a reactionary racist.

Have we had rape threads come up on SLAP before ?  If I saw it Im sure I would have chimed in and talked about the shitty situation in Sweden . From the sounds of what you are saying , its

 " hey sweden already is a shit hole were everybody rapes , so who cares if you let more rapists in"  .

Im actually embarrassed of Sweden , I dont think we should be a country to let refugees in when we cant even protect the women who are in the country right now . Ive made the point before

If we cant protect the refugees , and give them a good life then whats the point of letting them in . We have had problems with finding housing for Swedish people . finding jobs and school for swedish people . Keeping swedish people safe

then why let in more people ?


As for Racism

Quote
Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person's social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics.

Explain to me how Im racist ? . Europe and Europen vaulues are not a Race .  Christian , Atheists and Mulslims are not a race
Mass influx of Refugees is not a race .

Give me a specific example of me being racist and Ill adress it .


Frank

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #264 on: January 28, 2016, 02:17:17 PM »
monty i still know you're capable of reasonable thinking, and calling you a racist may have been harsh. but the emotional responses and examples of how shit could go wrong are as far fetched and fear induced as the horror scenarios the far right currently tries to implement in all our heads.

good point with the racist scale tho, i'd like to revise my former statement and say you dont want to be a racist and you probably even have antiracist ideals, but you say the same shit racists say. its debatable how values and religion relate to racism, but they sure often can act as catalyst for it, other times they might even help to overcome it to an extent. you talked about syrians tho, entering your home abusing your family in the worst way imaginable. you didnt talk about their presumed values or socialisation at all. it was just syrians.

and to sweden as rape capital no2, thats just another chartlist, it might even be fake. even if it is true, that would be no reason to become paranoid about ie my gf if she'd be in sweden because rapes dont just happen all the time in broad daylight in public. sometimes crazy shit like this happens and it happens everywhere in the fucking world obviously with or without refugees so why single them out for that criteria?

i'm not afraid that they rape around. but i'm afraid that they have to live in camps for a long time under poor conditions and slowly become a subsociety that is more antagonist to western society in general. i am also afraid of the people with the mob mentality that display open disregard for the refugees and think its rad when a boat sinks. theres suddenly a lot of assholes finding it funny to comment on a sunken boat with jokes like 'thats ok, we got plenty enough'. normal people become cruel fucks over this and this makes me paranoid.

of course a lot of bad shit comes to light, because refugees now get focused by police and the people, they are under watch. they are poor, no jobs, no home, of course some of them have to become criminals. they should be treated as any criminal if caught by police. right now with things like seizing their stuff when they come in like in denmark, the first signal we give them is that they are untrustworthy and not welcome. we force them to start poorer than they are and a lot of politicians now want them to be punished harder than regular citizens, like we did under hitler with jewish people back before WWII. that's a bigger step backwards on the civilatory scale for europe already imo than the refugees could ever have produced on their own efforts to destroy us culturally or whatever.

the question is if you give in and get swept away in the populist wave. i know people like you that i can respect for their articulate opinions, even when i disagree with them, but i see some of them lose their shit right now and i am wondering why that is the case. imo a lot of the things you assume are rather worst case scenarios and the problem is if a lot of people think the worst is about to happen, then tension rises and with it violent conflict because people overreact on all sides. i think the right thing to do at the moment just as a european citizen is to calm the fuck down and not give in to hate speech and really make their mind up as to why this shit happens in the first place, then we are already several steps ahead of our governments. obviously our governments and the eu are not capable of handling the situation right. but i don't think we will be able to integrate those that will stay, and a lot of them will, if they are primarily seen as a threat and get punished and shunned.

however i think you undersell yourself and you are maybe overly emotionalized right now, as a lot of people are, and i think you are smarter than bringing up stuff like that weird 1000 dead refugees for the life of the little girl trade. that is the kind overly emotionalized bullshit statement i mean. this trade is fantasy, also imo anyone wishing for a trade like that, even after experiencing something like that, is insane and a savage. i know you would never pull the trigger on 100 refugees alone, even if your family was severley attacked by one, because im sure you consider yourself a much more civilized person than that.

im super tired too, so ill stop here. i will check back in a few days and a response or more discussion is most welcome.

peace

Alan

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #265 on: January 28, 2016, 02:30:50 PM »
Monty, since you called me out, let me reiterate. In the best case scenario, you're a xenophobe. But I think that your views on the refugees fit this description of race and racism:

"The term 'race' is commonly understood as a way to group people by ethnicity, nationality, skin colour and ancestry as well cultural background and practices. While many people think of 'race' as a biological category there is no biological basis for the division of people along these lines, rather the term is socio-cultural construct used to differentiate, and to privilege, different groups of people."

"Racism refers to the dislike, unfair treatment, harassment or vilification of another person or group of people on the basis of perceived difference and a belief that one group is inherently superior to another."

http://www.monash.edu.au/social-justice/cultural-inclusion/what-is-racism.html














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He's got his 8-track playin' really fuckin' loud

Alan

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #266 on: January 28, 2016, 02:42:22 PM »
It's also pretty interesting how Monty (not a racist) never posts these types of links

https://www.rt.com/news/321220-arson-attacks-polarize-sweden/

http://www.euronews.com/2015/10/29/sweden-to-hide-refugee-centres-after-several-attacks/

But I get it, the attacks weren't against Swedes, so it doesn't really matter, because it's all about

Quote
Keeping swedish people safe

and the rest can die, while Monty's

Quote
trying to be as nice to people as possible
Hosin' out the cab of his pickup truck
He's got his 8-track playin' really fuckin' loud

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #267 on: January 28, 2016, 03:39:52 PM »
Quote
It's also pretty interesting how Monty (not a racist) never posts these types of links

I might not have posted links . But Ive mentioned multiple times the Extreme right is on the rise , And there has been attacks on Refugee centres . Ive also said multiple times that Sweden is pretty damn racist Along with rest of the Nordic countries

Not posting links to swedish people setting fire to refugee camps makes me a racist ? I think your definition of what a racist is abit broad


Quote
and the rest can die, while Monty's trying to be as nice to people as possible

Is this really the situation ? they will die ? If Sweden doesnt take them they die ? .

When have you ever seen me do anything bad ? evil ? commit a crime ? . how does  giving my opinion on a skateboarding forum effect anything on this refugee situation . You already know who I voted for this election . And you can easily see how that party was backing the refugees in the start .

I donate a decent amount of money to medecins sans frontieres every month , and Ive been doing it since 2009 I belive . They do work all over Syria , Afghanistan and a bunch of other places

I pay taxes in Sweden which takes care of the refugees in Sweden

You make it sound as Im out throwing rocks at refugees . While my taxes and my donations have prob done more for the Refugees then yours and Tuftys

Quote
http://www.monash.edu.au/social-justice/cultural-inclusion/what-is-racism.html

whos Monash ? they made the statement of " what is racism "  but no link to for example merriam-webster ?

merriam-webster is however referenced when they explain what  "privilege" is

Quote
Webster's dictionary defines "privilege"

Is their definition the official explanation of the word ? or their take on the word ? Why do they reference a dictionary
to explain what privilege is and why not when they explain what racism is ?

merriam-webster

Quote
Full Definition of racism

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

racial prejudice or discrimination

and  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/

Quote
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one�s own race is superior:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races

Ive lived in 4 continents , and about 10 countries , Ive visited even more . Ive been a immigrant , Ive been a minority . Tufty Im not scared of change or people of any race or any country . I doubt you have lived in any other country then Greece  or had the courage to leave your home and set up in a new country with a different language , different laws and different systems


What country are you in Alan ?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 04:06:26 PM by Monty Burns »

Tufty

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #268 on: January 28, 2016, 03:54:15 PM »
THat's what you understand when I talk about change? Oh god...

Monty Burns

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Re: Refugee crisis in Europe.
« Reply #269 on: January 28, 2016, 04:20:36 PM »
THat's what you understand when I talk about change? Oh god...

He is just an afraid human being.

Somebody who is afraid doesnt challenge himself . I do challenge myself

He is afraid of the changes happening around him and he wants to be left alone

My whole life has changes , from family life , living situations , jobs and so on . And Ive always been involved with team sports and jobs where you have to be very social


 He is not emotionally willing or/and mentally capable of fully understanding what's wrong


Says you , who dont agree with me . Easy to make the case " he doesnt agree with me so he is wrong and dumb

He is very affected by the elites propaganda that is everywhere

The swedish elite is against mass refugee  ?  who ? name names of companies , persons or political parties that are the social elite


He is afraid of going against someone more powerful than him so he resorts in blaming those under him to feel better.

Afraid of who ? the swedish goverment ? who is more powerful then me ? and are you suggesting refugees are under me ?
Isnt that kind of classist ? racist  ? fascists ? Nazi ?

what am I suposed to feel better about ? who says I feel bad about anything ? My life is fucking awesome

survival insticts and not logical thought.

Isnt survial instincts logical though ?  Fight or flight , and animals natural instincts are logical

If my survival instinct is to get out of a  empty house that is on fire , isnt that logical thought ?