Author Topic: Jamie vs. Ed  (Read 17641 times)

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jomeara1

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2015, 10:45:04 AM »
I was never religious honestly.  I even went to sunday school when I was little and even at that time I had no interest in it (probably because I just wanted to go home and play n64 all day).  I guess its nice to believe that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell or whatever, but at the end of the day I am just not buying it unless there is physical proof that they exist.  It especially baffles me when people refuse to believe that science actually has proof and records of things (for example- fossil records of dinosaurs), yet they still believe that god just magically put two people named Adam and Eve on the planet. Even though evolution is just a theory, it just makes WAY more sense to me.

But...who am I to say someone shouldn't believe in something.  If it makes them feel better about their place in this world and where they stand in life, then that's perfectly fine.  With the Paris attacks though, I really believe that praying will do absolutely nothing.  Even if you do pray and something good comes out of it, that good thing probably would have happened anyway even if you didn't pray.

ill_Murray

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2015, 11:04:11 AM »
ill murray, can you remind me why you think im a kook

abudabi

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2015, 11:10:18 AM »
almost every person who tries to argue against christianity (or any other religion) doesnt properly understand the idea of faith.
faith is the ultimate excuse and youll lose the argument every time.
just be happy you dont need a crutch, and dont ask them to give up theirs.


abudabi

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2015, 11:17:33 AM »
http://m.christianity.com/1270946/
check this out for a good laugh.

ohhgreenworld

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2015, 11:34:21 AM »

Iceman

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2015, 11:50:06 AM »
i pray that you learn god isn't real.

JB

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2015, 12:09:45 PM »
just be happy you dont need a crutch, and dont ask them to give up theirs.


preach!

Jares

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2015, 12:37:24 PM »
Expand Quote

Interesting point, a few questions arose within my mind while reading this.

Why would the physical processes of the brain, that powers the mind, cancel out the mind's ability to alter and even create physical reality via the ideal?

Isn't Quantum Physics a metaphysical system of science? Dose that make many of the claims and theories of Quantum Physicists false? I've just gotten into the whole quantum physics reality and much of it actually makes me hyped on the possibility of a supreme being or mind, is that an improper interpretation of what Quantum Physics is dealing with?

I enjoy reading myths because they use the language of the imagination to explain things, concepts and even reality itself in a way similar to art, music, plays and so on. Sometimes the explanation is obscure other times pretty plain (it depends on the imagery). Dose the use of this language make the things they are explaining false? Is it the use of this language that makes myths false? Do myths even qualify as being either true of false? Ex. Art is neither true or false.

Isn't the truth relative in a way? It seems to be pretty dependent on one's ability to perceive it isn't it? Is not faith a faculty of reason? Isn't it faith (the assurance of things hoped for and yet to be seen) that part of our reasoning ability that helps us to continue pursuing a matter until we get to the truth of it? 

The reason I say that faith may be a faculty of reason rather than an alternative is because I don't think faith can function properly without reason, I believe it would cease to be faith and mutate into delusion.
[close]

I think you're right that mind is causally efficacious on the material world and mind does create matter (we add to the periodic table).
But, even if true, mind is still dependent on the physical.
The metaphysical question is whether mind explains matter (most religions) or whether matter explains mind (physicalism)

And even if the mind does things in the world - the evidence is overwhelming that matter is fundamental, so religions are not the case.

I don't know the arguments for gods in quantum mechanics. But God has free will - chooses ends then acts.

Quantum mechanics is chance/probabilities, so no will (if everything you did was random, we wouldn't think you were choosing anything)
And general relativity is deterministic, so no freedom

So, I don't think you get God from science, since no physical events are best explained by purposeful acts to some end, but by the absence of purposeful acts (probabilities or determinism)

You're right about myth, but it is taken literally or in some way true by theists. And I'm arguing against them.
Art doesn't usually make propositions, so no truth value. But myth does (Earth was made in such way), so it can have a truth value.

But myth does have other functions than truth claims. 

Faith is often commitment to conclusions despite the evidence. Reason accepts conclusions given the evidence. So I still see a difference.
But I might not understand what you're saying.


Hmmm, Do you think the mind (basically our metaphysic selves) can somehow transcend matter?

Also there is substantial evidence that the mind and how and what we perceive, actually determines how matter behaves. Many quantum scientist have been tripping out that light waves and particles will behave differently depending on how they are observed and that electrons only appear when researchers are looking at them. This kind of leads me to believe that physical and metaphysical reality are just two sides of the same coin. Could that be that the case?

And if so, could the physical world actually be functioning according to an underlying uniform purpose some scientist just can't see as purposeful because they simply don't want to?

As an artist I would have to disagree that art dose not make propositions, its very purpose is to propose something, wether it be profound, absurd or nothing at all. "telling the truth through lies." Which is why its kinda neither but at the same time both. Two things at once, kind of quantum...hmmm
 
So aren't our myths the same? Almost all our television shows, movies, plays, music, video games spring in some shape of form from our collective old mythology. I think our collective mythology may be the exegesis of our collective mind, of who we are, what we are, the gnarly as well as the rad. I kind of see them as the true lies of where we probably came from and where we are probably going in some yet to be determined way.

Maybe religion was a way to utilise those true lies in order to overcome the issues of mind over matter people so desperately needed back when matter was almost mind crushingly dominant. Now that we've had a little while (in the 20th-21 centuries) for some of our minds to breath a little the religion is no longer needed by some though the edifice is quite useful to others, but the problem it tried to solve has only gotten more significant- as of now we are facing the very real possibility of extinction within our lifetime. Though the race is on to beat it, death is still coming for us.

So, is this really the best time for us to be shedding a huge part of what and who we are as a species, especially knowing that the segment of our population that corrupted and continue to corrupt not just religion, but every aspect of human culture for their own selfish and strange desires stand to benefit the most from us doing so?

Can't we just take our religions out of the temples of the corrupt and place them back into the hearts of the enlightened to the benefit of us all?
Or is it too late?

Oops, sorry for not explaining that last point clearly, basically what I was saying is that I think faith may not work properly without reason. I see it more as a commitment to continue gathering evidence for a conclusion yet to be reached. 

Zurg

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2015, 01:46:27 PM »
Quote from: D. Bag  link=topic=88371.msg2405655#msg2405655 date=1447724127
You know what's equally as annoying as those who cram their religion on you at every chance?  Those who can't shut the fuck up about how atheist awesome they are.

It's like arguing about pizza, some people like it, some don't, never gonna get any agreement on this topic.  But, Islam is pretty much like topping that delicious pie with slices of hot dog shit, so it's perfectly understandable to dislike it vehemently.  Can't find anything redeeming about that fucked-up religion, at least other faiths have some degree of charity and what-not, Islam just keeps forcing itself on everyone regardless of what shit it brings with it.

Also, in before some dipshit says "What about the Crusades?!?" or something equally dumb to try and pretend that Christians (as strange as they are) somehow are even remotely close to the cunts who are fucking everything up in the name of some pedophile cocksucker going by the name of Mohammed.

good thing you got in before someone brought up an argument to your point. no need to defend it or anything

Donkey Lips

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2015, 02:47:40 PM »
All the fun of arguing about religion and philosophy with other freshmen in the common room, but none of the student loans.

coneklr

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2015, 03:10:06 PM »
Not that I care either way, but this debate reminded me of this, which always makes me laugh


Gray Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2015, 04:32:45 PM »

Impish sausage is definitely gonna blow up as a euphemism this year

Kanye Omari West

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2015, 08:51:07 PM »
We were killing each other long before organized religion and will be doing so long after it is obsolete. I'm not religious, but people kill each other for multiple reason which can be perceived in-equality, scarcity of resources and thrust for power, religion can be a something that reflects this but it isn't the reason. If we got rid of religion this would just be reflected through other things.

Hit the nail on the fucking head. I tell people this same shit all the time. It's just a crutch. A sensible person can realize that killing has been going on since the dawn of time. Before religion or anything, one thing has been snuffing out another thing. End of story.

tobey

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2015, 08:59:17 PM »
Why pray? You won't get any social media attention then, change your facebook picture to the France colors. Then people will know you're legit

franquietits

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2015, 10:15:27 PM »
Maybe praying  doesn't do anything, but I just saw it as a simple gesture of solidarity and condolence.
Not sure there is anything much that regular people all over the world can do to have real world impact, besides having empathy. It's not such a case where you can just donate to the red cross relief fund or something, like when natural disasters strike. I think I read that a lot of the survivors (might have been non wounded witnesses) of the attack went to see psychologists just from even seeing/being around the massacre.

I guess one of the others things left is just to have discourse on how foreign military presence in the middle east influenced the evolution of Isis & the aftermath issues. Don't know to much on these issues, but I refer to this program a lot in learning:




Matze

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2015, 11:44:17 PM »
I wanna see this amount of replies in the boobs thread.

Shredface

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2015, 04:04:57 AM »
almost every person who tries to argue against christianity (or any other religion) doesnt properly understand the idea of faith.
faith is the ultimate excuse and youll lose the argument every time.
just be happy you dont need a crutch, and dont ask them to give up theirs.


fuck off, the understanding of faith is not exclusive to the religious, we all understand faith, but most intelligent beings also understand that modern religions are bullshit and nothing more than fairy tales. They keep you scared and hateful to people who are different.

GAY

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2015, 09:03:01 AM »
The thing I love about SLAP is that we leave all our other issues at the door, like religion, politics, sexual preferences, and we just focus on skating here.

Wait a minute...

abudabi

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2015, 11:35:26 AM »
Expand Quote
almost every person who tries to argue against christianity (or any other religion) doesnt properly understand the idea of faith.
faith is the ultimate excuse and youll lose the argument every time.
just be happy you dont need a crutch, and dont ask them to give up theirs.


[close]
fuck off, the understanding of faith is not exclusive to the religious, we all understand faith, but most intelligent beings also understand that modern religions are bullshit and nothing more than fairy tales. They keep you scared and hateful to people who are different.
what's funny here is that you try to tell me you understand the idea of faith, and then you tell me that people "understand" that religions are bullshit.
can you tell me what this understanding could possibly be, that it overrides faith's circumvention of every logical argument?

ill answer that (because you probably dont understand the question) : you cant.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 11:40:01 AM by abudabi »

Shredface

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2015, 12:26:28 PM »
Faith and religion are very different things , try a dictionary instead of a bible you dickhead

iwishilivedinfinla

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2015, 12:46:39 PM »
fuck praying

fuck religion

Chicken in a Can

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2015, 01:05:09 PM »
people who say 'fuck religion' have probably never lived through extreme drought that brought about civil wars in the country they were forced to move to.
there are people in this world with no signs of hope, who endure extreme hardships unfathomable by most of us. religion presents hope and a sense of belonging to these people. why wouldn't they accept it when it's presented? especially if it gives them food, shelter, brotherhood, etc.

makes 'em wanna wild out, run up in the white house with the gauge out CLICK CLACK. gimme my shit back...BIOTCH



JB

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2015, 01:07:03 PM »
Not that I care either way, but this debate reminded me of this, which always makes me laugh




"I wont change my mind, 'cause I don't have to, 'cause I'm an American." - Best quote ever. That whole skit is gold.

Hannity

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2015, 02:05:57 PM »
selling fedoras for all of you intellectuals in the thread  :-*

lk130

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2015, 02:08:35 PM »
Your actions telling the future of what happens for you makes heaven or hell
I need Cariuma -Me



yungxmulaxbaby

abudabi

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2015, 02:21:02 PM »
Faith and religion are very different things , try a dictionary instead of a bible you dickhead
do you have any idea what your point is?
edit: to be less of a dick, how does this explain your "understanding" that modern religions are bullshit?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 02:29:25 PM by abudabi »

Shredface

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2015, 03:41:17 PM »
I'm sorry, there is not enough room on the Internet to explain why religion is bullshit to the likes of you . But it starts with clearing your mind of all the garbage you learned from your religion, and seeing the truth , that almost all wars , shit even most violence in the world is about religion and forcing your beliefs onto others. Start there...

Gray Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2015, 04:38:20 PM »

Impish sausage is definitely gonna blow up as a euphemism this year

straight

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2015, 04:42:02 PM »
bet forest wishes this thread was about him

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Re: Jamie vs. Ed
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2015, 07:01:26 PM »
religion is dumb because its just an excuse for people to act how they were going to act anyway. There are good and shitty people in every religion, so it clearly doesn't make somebody a good person- it just gives them a new way to delude themselves into thinking they are good.
As far as prayer starting or ending wars? I've never heard of a war ending or being avoided because of religion. There are probably 100 violent conflicts going on around the world as we speak though. Still, religion is just a salient feature of culture, and war often is the result of cultural clashes- a lot of conflicting values result in hatred between two or more groups, religion is just the easiest thing to point out.
Are you a kook? If you would say this, the answer is “YES”
I quit skating for a time due to piling out