Refugee crisis in Europe.

[Monty Burns]

All kinds of phobia in this thread. When the Berlin Wall fell, 15 million refugees entered Germany. They can take a few million even if some of them will cling to a desert ideology. Many whites in the west do too, and many among them still bite their tongue at gays and women.

The question is why ? . If you already have lets say 1 million homophobes in germany . Why Import 1 million more ? Why spend 39 Billion on
These people ? we already know tons of them are economical refugees who should not be in the country to start with . They are just wasting the money that could have been put to good use

Why set up refugee camps in europe when we could have just set them up in syria ?

Transplant muslims will pose a challenge, undoubtedly, but why give up so cowardly? Aren't you a fighter, Monty?


I am a fighter but why shoot yourself in the leg to just post a challenge ? Lets fight for Sweden and Europe to have the best schools in the world , the best healthcare in the world , The most freedom in the world . Lets make sure all of the EU focuses on making the environment much better and having the right rules for our planet

All the billions Europe is wasting on the " refugees " could have done wonders in school programs , integration programs , environmental programs . Imagine what good the 39 billion the germans are spending could have done in the schools and healthcare


As I said before I probably would not stay and fight, if my country was to turn Sharia. In my opinion, flight never really got the credit it deserves.

Question is why should you leave ? Not sure if you ever said what country you are from excitableboy , but I assume you are from a democratical country in the EU ? . Why should your whole family have to leave your country cause some bullies want to change everything ?

Back in school when you saw some poor kid getting bullied did you join in ? did you ignore it ? or did you help the kid getting bullied ?

Why should I leave my home , my country and my democracy , just cause the threat of violence ? or death ?


It's the fighter who defies logic we admire, but really, if I'd want to protect my hypothetical wife and daughter my best bet is to leave. Of course this is all useless speculation. Safe to say I'm not about to stand up to a possessed militia of rapists, however.

What kind of lesson is that for your hypothetical children and wife ? . What about standing up for what is right ? or standing up for your house , your home or your country

If somebody wants your house do you just give it to them ? do you give it to them if they threaten you with violence ?

what if they want your wife and children ? do you give it to them without a fight ?

[Esquivel]

hahaha all kinds of phobia on idiots who read the daily fail. for fucks sake, whoever it is who cites the daily mail: be sure that this right wing tabloid crapload has succeeded in scaremongering. it is owned by someone not much different than donald tramp and is notorious for the bs they are promoting. i am very impressed there are skaters out there who read this crap. get a grip people we are skaters, supposedly lying outside the herd.
but yeah, nike

[Monty Burns]

hahaha all kinds of phobia on idiots who read the daily fail. for fucks sake, whoever it is who cites the daily mail: be sure that this right wing tabloid crapload has succeeded in scaremongering. it is owned by someone not much different than donald tramp and is notorious for the bs they are promoting. i am very impressed there are skaters out there who read this crap. get a grip people we are skaters, supposedly lying outside the herd.
but yeah, nike

Its also one of the biggest media on the internet . And its much easier for me to post story from daily mail , then posting the swedish story and then translating it to english

The german pensioners who are getting attacked on video in the daily mail are not getting less assaulted by refugees in the NY Times

The swedish girl who got murderd by a refugee is not less dead in the NY Times

Its also worth to say that when Swedish media and Swedish police are covering up refugee crimes its Important to have media who are not covering it up .

[Monty Burns]

More good news from germany

Horror at German migrant centre as Syrian father is arrested for attempted murder for throwing his three young children from a first-floor window

A refugee father has been arrested for attempted murder in Germany after allegedly throwing his three children from a window at their emergency accommodation centre.
Police received an emergency call in Lohmar in the west of Germany on Monday from a man who said he saw the children falling one by one from the first-floor window of the asylum seekers centre.
When medics reached the scene they found two of the children with serious injuries and they were both helicoptered to a nearby hospital.
A third child, aged one, was returned to his mother after treatment for light injuries after being kept overnight in hospital for observation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3427696/Horror-German-migrant-centre-Syrian-father-arrested-attempted-murder-throwing-three-young-children-floor-window.html

[Esquivel]

Expand Quote

hahaha all kinds of phobia on idiots who read the daily fail. for fucks sake, whoever it is who cites the daily mail: be sure that this right wing tabloid crapload has succeeded in scaremongering. it is owned by someone not much different than donald tramp and is notorious for the bs they are promoting. i am very impressed there are skaters out there who read this crap. get a grip people we are skaters, supposedly lying outside the herd.
but yeah, nike

[close]

Its also one of the biggest media on the internet . And its much easier for me to post story from daily mail , then posting the swedish story and then translating it to english

The german pensioners who are getting attacked on video in the daily mail are not getting less assaulted by refugees in the NY Times

The swedish girl who got murderd by a refugee is not less dead in the NY Times

Its also worth to say that when Swedish media and Swedish police are covering up refugee crimes its Important to have media who are not covering it up .

I would have thought there are more international news publications, other than the misinforming piece of shit that is the daily fail that cover these issues. Maybe you can't find any that satisfy your expectations on the way the news are presented. By this i mean that you might actually WANT to read that the refugees are causing mayhem and you struggle to find other sources that say so. In any case, even if there are no other publications that fiddle with the issue (which i strongly doubt and cant even be arsed to look for), I would still prefer to not read any news than read fake/altered news. Mind that it doesn't take but a few words put in different places to alter the meaning of a text. Now, if you are looking for sites that present Sweden's issue, just think that there are many other countries that have similar problems with refugees but the DF emphasises on sweden's issues only to justify the horrible decision that your goverment has taken (that has been ridiculed by every person capable of reading and thinking) to strip refugees of their possessions - thus further promoting poverty and theft. Expect articles about Germany soon (if not already out) and even more articles that prepare the ground for other governments to take extreme measures without which the "european peace" would be disturbed.
I believe the ny times are biased too. Why wouldn't they be? are there any newsgroups that are unbiased? in my opinion even the "leftist" sites are full of shit. Fuck, maybe i have lost all hope and am now contradicting myself as to what I said in the first 3-4 lines here but still the DF should close down and whoever works for them should be executed.
Looks like they did some interesting articles on health, cannabis, homosexuals and some other subjects. I would expect their articles that cover the refugee crisis to be of the same quality and legitimacy if not even "better".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail


ok no more rants im out for a sk8about

[excitableboy]

All kinds of phobia in this thread. When the Berlin Wall fell, 15 million refugees entered Germany. They can take a few million even if some of them will cling to a desert ideology. Many whites in the west do too, and many among them still bite their tongue at gays and women.

The question is why ? . If you already have lets say 1 million homophobes in germany . Why Import 1 million more ? Why spend 39 Billion on
These people ? we already know tons of them are economical refugees who should not be in the country to start with . They are just wasting the money that could have been put to good use

Why set up refugee camps in europe when we could have just set them up in syria ?

Transplant muslims will pose a challenge, undoubtedly, but why give up so cowardly? Aren't you a fighter, Monty?


I am a fighter but why shoot yourself in the leg to just post a challenge ? Lets fight for Sweden and Europe to have the best schools in the world , the best healthcare in the world , The most freedom in the world . Lets make sure all of the EU focuses on making the environment much better and having the right rules for our planet

All the billions Europe is wasting on the " refugees " could have done wonders in school programs , integration programs , environmental programs . Imagine what good the 39 billion the germans are spending could have done in the schools and healthcare


As I said before I probably would not stay and fight, if my country was to turn Sharia. In my opinion, flight never really got the credit it deserves.

Question is why should you leave ? Not sure if you ever said what country you are from excitableboy , but I assume you are from a democratical country in the EU ? . Why should your whole family have to leave your country cause some bullies want to change everything ?

Back in school when you saw some poor kid getting bullied did you join in ? did you ignore it ? or did you help the kid getting bullied ?

Why should I leave my home , my country and my democracy , just cause the threat of violence ? or death ?


It's the fighter who defies logic we admire, but really, if I'd want to protect my hypothetical wife and daughter my best bet is to leave. Of course this is all useless speculation. Safe to say I'm not about to stand up to a possessed militia of rapists, however.

What kind of lesson is that for your hypothetical children and wife ? . What about standing up for what is right ? or standing up for your house , your home or your country

If somebody wants your house do you just give it to them ? do you give it to them if they threaten you with violence ?

what if they want your wife and children ? do you give it to them without a fight ?

Please Monty stop asking me to repeat myself.

As I said a number of times now, I think it's the right thing to do. That's why we should, not because we like a challenge. The Berlin wall didn't fall because people got bored with their daily routine and needed a challenge.
   We're not importing anyone, if we were, there wouldn't be tens of thousands of dead people on the bottom of the Mediterranean. For whom I've yet to see a memorial service, by the way. Even if it had been possible for us to set up enough camps in Syria (it was not), those people would have come here anyway. You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees. They need help and are coming to the people best equipped to give it to them. Indeed, we are the nearest people to them who might. Are they really to blame for not standing up to a bunch of rabid dogs backed by filthy rich oil pimps? Never mind Assad and other armies. Doesn't make any sense.
   And why are you riling up my hypothetical wife and children against me? You asked me to consider what I'd do if everything went medieval in my country, so don't give me this shit. If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
   Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario, but in this one you opt to hide behind a gate with your tail between your legs. By doing that, you are also leaving your democracy, can't you see that? You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.

You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal. Go ahead, keep saying it is, posting shitty articles thinking you make some kind of point. We set up camps for thousands of our own in their countries all the time, when we go over there to 'set them free' and whatnot. You seem to have no idea what money and armed forces are capable of. If Sweden or Europe can't muster up the resources to integrate them (and yes, send back non-Syrians etc.), it really is a lowpoint for 'our' culture. So far we are looking pretty reactionary and primitive.

[brycickle]

Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.

at least in austria, some of the bigger refugee camps are run by private companies that get paid by the state (ridiculous amounts, as i might add)..

[Alan]

Why set up refugee camps in europe when we could have just set them up in syria ?

Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach, you just need to google key words. Remember, things are happening outside of Sweden and the DM website, too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ32JykWkAAn61G.jpg


Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees? You keep posting here as if the end of the world (well, Sweden) is around the corner, and asking people if they would fight, but you don't seem to be doing much besides posting links and repeating ignorant bs. Time to start hoarding food and weapons! Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.



And regarding that German subway vid,  this German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false. He also claimed that the attackers left the car and started shoving people on the platform, while the CCTV footage showed that they did not. Police also said that it would have been better to press the emergency button rather than film.

In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything, whereas the SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.

But please, keep taking their articles at face value, I'm sure they're not trying to misinform the public.

[Monty Burns]

For Esquivel

By this i mean that you might actually WANT to read that the refugees are causing mayhem

If you are suggesting that in a thread where Im trying to show you guys how much the current refugee situation is fucking up the EU , then yes I am looking for articles to prove my point . But this is hardly difficult when most days you can find articles in all papers on how they  "behave"

Now, if you are looking for sites that present Sweden's issue, just think that there are many other countries that have similar problems with refugees but the DF emphasises on Sweden's issues only to justify the horrible decision that your government has taken

Sweden was one of the countries who were most positive in taking in the refugees , telling everybody that Sweden can do it and will be fine . But that ended pretty quick . Sweden is there for a shining example how refugee handling and integration is a major fuck up


I believe the ny times are biased too. Why wouldn't they be? are there any newsgroups that are unbiased? in my opinion even the "leftist" sites are full of shit.

Everybody has a agenda , you cant 100% trust any media


for brycickle and Hercules Rockefeller

Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.

Its the same all over Europe I think , The private comparison know the government needs the space so they hike up the prices ALOT


for excitableboy

You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees

What about the Afghans ? the Tunisians ? the Somalis ? the Moroccans ? . I used to have a good friend who used to go visit his family in Kabul each year . In fact you can still fly to Afghanistan for about 400 euros . There is still a issue with the Taliban in Afghanistan but is it big enough to have millions of Afghans in Europe ?

What about the Somalis ? Moroccans ? Tunisians ?


If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
  Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario


Every country that were invaded by the Nazi or the countries supporting the Nazis had rebel groups . Espionage , sabotage , assassinations
The Jewish had support groups for smuggling out jews , for giving weapons , food and other valuables to other Jews  . Swedes volunteered
to the Army in USA , England and Norway . There were small rebel groups helping Danish Jews hide in Sweden

Raoul Wallenberg . He is widely celebrated for saving tens of thousands[5] of Jews in Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian Fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings designated as Swedish territory

Dont give up hope excitableboy , even if you are occupied and all hope is gone , If you are willing to risk your life there is still good you can do

You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.

Sweden is getting fucked by the refugee situation . But its because the refugees we have changed . If there wasnt such a shit situation where Sweden for some reason has to prove we are not anti Muslim , anti refugees . Swedens government and Sweden Police wouldn't have to cover up and lie about that refugee commit crimes in Sweden


You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal.

Swedens 4th or 5th biggest city is about 100 thousand . You dont think a whole new city in Sweden is a big deal ? . If its no big deal why have the Socialist Party ( who rule Sweden ) Lost most of its voters ? why is there talk about a new election ? why is there talk about having the PM leave his position ?

If its no big deal why has the Swedish immigration service said they cant handle it ? if its no big deal why did the PM of Sweden come out in a press conference and say we need to close the border cause we cant handle it anymore ?  Why is the police saying they need 4000 new police to deal with the situation ?

And when ever the military is involved somebody gets shot .



For Alan


Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach,

I know this , but thats not what Im saying . Im saying ALL camps in Syria and Afghanistan and no camps in Europe . I saw the map you posted on the first page And I belive I said I was wrong and thanked you ? 

Anyways some camps close to Syria is not enough, still had 200k refugees coming into Sweden and 1 million into Germany . All camps should be over there


Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees?

I thought we have been doing it for some time now ? greeks forcing boats back . Hungary and other countries throwing up barb wire fences . Women in Germany and Sweden fighting back to not get raped ? Police arresting refugees in all countries for sexual assault , rape , assault , murder , attempt of murder  ?

The swedish refugee worker who got stabbed to death was trying to fight for her life .


Time to start hoarding food and weapons

Im not sure about the food , but
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html

seems like alot of people are taking you up on your advice

Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.

Why not ? If I agree on 90% of the Green Partys platform but not 10% . Does that mean I cant vote on the green party ?
Its still probably higher then I would agree with other parties platform

What if the fighting started mid term ? I cant change who I voted for . So even if there was a war and if the green party was against it
I couldnt change my vote and I would have still voted for the green party

If there was a civil war in Sweden I assume the green party would make up a new platform so neither you or me could say now what the their platform would be


German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything,

So DM was correct ? whats your point ?
 


SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.

Soooo ?  more poor refugees that need germany to keep them safe is attacking german senior citizens and trying to molest german women ?



Oh and Alan . You forgot to answer my last reply to you . Im pretty sure you forgot about it and didnt ignore it . If you need help to find it I can post the link , or just copy paste it with my next post

[excitableboy]

for excitableboy

You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees

What about the Afghans ? the Tunisians ? the Somalis ? the Moroccans ? . I used to have a good friend who used to go visit his family in Kabul each year . In fact you can still fly to Afghanistan for about 400 euros . There is still a issue with the Taliban in Afghanistan but is it big enough to have millions of Afghans in Europe ?

What about the Somalis ? Moroccans ? Tunisians ?

Uhh...try that again. I guess none of the above made sense to you either, at which point you opted to just repeat some nationalities? That is my best guess.

If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
  Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario


Every country that were invaded by the Nazi or the countries supporting the Nazis had rebel groups . Espionage , sabotage , assassinations
The Jewish had support groups for smuggling out jews , for giving weapons , food and other valuables to other Jews  . Swedes volunteered
to the Army in USA , England and Norway . There were small rebel groups helping Danish Jews hide in Sweden

Raoul Wallenberg . He is widely celebrated for saving tens of thousands[5] of Jews in Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian Fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings designated as Swedish territory

Dont give up hope excitableboy , even if you are occupied and all hope is gone , If you are willing to risk your life there is still good you can do

My grandfather was in the resistance. I'm not sure why I mention that but I feel with you I have to offer some kind of genetic qualification if I want anything to register at all. In any case, my point still stands. The few (jews) who are recognized for those deeds are indeed, few. For the obvious reason I already emphasized. But should push come to shove, by all means, try your hand at being a dead hero. To each their own.

You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.

Sweden is getting fucked by the refugee situation . But its because the refugees we have changed . If there wasnt such a shit situation where Sweden for some reason has to prove we are not anti Muslim , anti refugees . Swedens government and Sweden Police wouldn't have to cover up and lie about that refugee commit crimes in Sweden

They had to cover it up, really? You conceded that pretty easily. Why shouldn't refugees rape to keep their peace? What a strange point of view. If there had been reports, the army could have been sooner involved in aiding the police.

You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal.

Swedens 4th or 5th biggest city is about 100 thousand . You dont think a whole new city in Sweden is a big deal ? . If its no big deal why have the Socialist Party ( who rule Sweden ) Lost most of its voters ? why is there talk about a new election ? why is there talk about having the PM leave his position ?

If its no big deal why has the Swedish immigration service said they cant handle it ? if its no big deal why did the PM of Sweden come out in a press conference and say we need to close the border cause we cant handle it anymore ?  Why is the police saying they need 4000 new police to deal with the situation ?

And when ever the military is involved somebody gets shot .

Common folk are going hysterical and politicians dignify it by saying what they want to hear? The socialist party is down in the polls during a time when humanitarian values are under attack? You don't say!
No, it is not really a big deal. Not as big as allowing women to be raped in broad daylight for years on end, anyway. And not as big as thousands of desperate people drowning, or being sent to rot near Calais or wherever they make it, only for the Swedes to return blissfully to their servings of meatballs.

[Monty Burns]

Look  excitableboy I need a day or 2 away from this thread , I spent most the night looking at numbers of incoming refugees , unemployment rates , lack of housing numbers and some short documentaries about Swedish immigration . Im over it for afew days . Ill get back to you

I just moved back to Sweden basicly and Im thinking about moving to another country just cause of the shit storm that is awaiting Sweden


Ill be back later when Alan mans up and answers my 2 last posts he ignored

[Esquivel]

For Esquivel

By this i mean that you might actually WANT to read that the refugees are causing mayhem

If you are suggesting that in a thread where Im trying to show you guys how much the current refugee situation is fucking up the EU , then yes I am looking for articles to prove my point . But this is hardly difficult when most days you can find articles in all papers on how they  "behave"

Now, if you are looking for sites that present Sweden's issue, just think that there are many other countries that have similar problems with refugees but the DF emphasises on Sweden's issues only to justify the horrible decision that your government has taken

Sweden was one of the countries who were most positive in taking in the refugees , telling everybody that Sweden can do it and will be fine . But that ended pretty quick . Sweden is there for a shining example how refugee handling and integration is a major fuck up


I believe the ny times are biased too. Why wouldn't they be? are there any newsgroups that are unbiased? in my opinion even the "leftist" sites are full of shit.

Everybody has a agenda , you cant 100% trust any media


for brycickle and Hercules Rockefeller

Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.

Its the same all over Europe I think , The private comparison know the government needs the space so they hike up the prices ALOT


for excitableboy

You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees

What about the Afghans ? the Tunisians ? the Somalis ? the Moroccans ? . I used to have a good friend who used to go visit his family in Kabul each year . In fact you can still fly to Afghanistan for about 400 euros . There is still a issue with the Taliban in Afghanistan but is it big enough to have millions of Afghans in Europe ?

What about the Somalis ? Moroccans ? Tunisians ?


If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
  Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario


Every country that were invaded by the Nazi or the countries supporting the Nazis had rebel groups . Espionage , sabotage , assassinations
The Jewish had support groups for smuggling out jews , for giving weapons , food and other valuables to other Jews  . Swedes volunteered
to the Army in USA , England and Norway . There were small rebel groups helping Danish Jews hide in Sweden

Raoul Wallenberg . He is widely celebrated for saving tens of thousands[5] of Jews in Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian Fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings designated as Swedish territory

Dont give up hope excitableboy , even if you are occupied and all hope is gone , If you are willing to risk your life there is still good you can do

You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.

Sweden is getting fucked by the refugee situation . But its because the refugees we have changed . If there wasnt such a shit situation where Sweden for some reason has to prove we are not anti Muslim , anti refugees . Swedens government and Sweden Police wouldn't have to cover up and lie about that refugee commit crimes in Sweden


You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal.

Swedens 4th or 5th biggest city is about 100 thousand . You dont think a whole new city in Sweden is a big deal ? . If its no big deal why have the Socialist Party ( who rule Sweden ) Lost most of its voters ? why is there talk about a new election ? why is there talk about having the PM leave his position ?

If its no big deal why has the Swedish immigration service said they cant handle it ? if its no big deal why did the PM of Sweden come out in a press conference and say we need to close the border cause we cant handle it anymore ?  Why is the police saying they need 4000 new police to deal with the situation ?

And when ever the military is involved somebody gets shot .



For Alan


Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach,

I know this , but thats not what Im saying . Im saying ALL camps in Syria and Afghanistan and no camps in Europe . I saw the map you posted on the first page And I belive I said I was wrong and thanked you ?  

Anyways some camps close to Syria is not enough, still had 200k refugees coming into Sweden and 1 million into Germany . All camps should be over there


Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees?

I thought we have been doing it for some time now ? greeks forcing boats back . Hungary and other countries throwing up barb wire fences . Women in Germany and Sweden fighting back to not get raped ? Police arresting refugees in all countries for sexual assault , rape , assault , murder , attempt of murder  ?

The swedish refugee worker who got stabbed to death was trying to fight for her life .


Time to start hoarding food and weapons

Im not sure about the food , but
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html

seems like alot of people are taking you up on your advice

Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.

Why not ? If I agree on 90% of the Green Partys platform but not 10% . Does that mean I cant vote on the green party ?
Its still probably higher then I would agree with other parties platform

What if the fighting started mid term ? I cant change who I voted for . So even if there was a war and if the green party was against it
I couldnt change my vote and I would have still voted for the green party

If there was a civil war in Sweden I assume the green party would make up a new platform so neither you or me could say now what the their platform would be


German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything,

So DM was correct ? whats your point ?
 


SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.

Soooo ?  more poor refugees that need germany to keep them safe is attacking german senior citizens and trying to molest german women ?



Oh and Alan . You forgot to answer my last reply to you . Im pretty sure you forgot about it and didnt ignore it . If you need help to find it I can post the link , or just copy paste it with my next post

and you still choose to cite articles from the daily fail haha

[Tufty]

I think you should ignore him already. Using dailymail repeateadly as a source is a rock bottom.

[Alan]

I'm just glad that there aren't more Montys in this thread and that most people involved are making reasonable arguments.

[excitableboy]

Look  excitableboy I need a day or 2 away from this thread , I spent most the night looking at numbers of incoming refugees , unemployment rates , lack of housing numbers and some short documentaries about Swedish immigration . Im over it for afew days . Ill get back to you

I just moved back to Sweden basicly and Im thinking about moving to another country just cause of the shit storm that is awaiting Sweden


Ill be back later when Alan mans up and answers my 2 last posts he ignored

Sure, I understand. You're like a one-man thinktank over there. Take a few months if you need to.

Then when you come back, we'll see how much of your hysteria is warranted. You would have to be out of Sweden indeed, because from what you are describing I don't think they will still have internet then. I recommend Iceland. It's the most homogeneous country and an awful long swim.

[CigaretteBeer]

[Tufty]

 Damn. Nazis have the same arguments worldwidely. I swear greek nazis had the exact same arguments in Greece when the crisis started and blamed immigrants for everything.

[Tracer]

Why don't you dudes get into politics since you guys have such passion on this... ? Your politicians have betrayed you, so either leave or take them over. Good to see mosque burning starting to grow around Northern Europe. That should carry a reward or some shit, Islam is a death cult

[Xen]

Wouldn't you leave?

[Sleazy]

To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.

[Alan]

concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does.

How did the refugee crisis cause EU citizens to kill people at a concert in Paris? Is that what you're referring to? And what statistics are you talking about? And what do they prove? That a small percentage of the refugees are criminals? So?

Also, not wanting to leave millions of people in a war zone or in overcrowded camps does not make one a "PC freak." Or are you suggesting some kind of "tough love" policy, where the refugees have to learn to survive without international aid or a safe place to live, but are then super thankful for having been taught a valuable life lesson (unless they die first)?

Btw, the refugees too are "innocent people suffering."

Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.

I know. Just look what happened to America when they let in all those poor people.

[Dirtymac]

To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.

this^

[Dirtymac]

Expand Quote

concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does.

[close]

How did the refugee crisis cause EU citizens to kill people at a concert in Paris? Is that what you're referring to? And what statistics are you talking about? And what do they prove? That a small percentage of the refugees are criminals? So?

Also, not wanting to leave millions of people in a war zone or in overcrowded camps does not make one a "PC freak." Or are you suggesting some kind of "tough love" policy, where the refugees have to learn to survive without international aid or a safe place to live, but are then super thankful for having been taught a valuable life lesson (unless they die first)?

Btw, the refugees too are "innocent people suffering."

Expand Quote

Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.

[close]

I know. Just look what happened to America when they let in all those poor people.

who for the most part spoke the same language, shared the same religious beliefs and had the drive and work ethic to make a life for themselves and didn't expect the government to support them...

[Monty Burns]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does.

[close]

How did the refugee crisis cause EU citizens to kill people at a concert in Paris? Is that what you're referring to? And what statistics are you talking about? And what do they prove? That a small percentage of the refugees are criminals? So?

Also, not wanting to leave millions of people in a war zone or in overcrowded camps does not make one a "PC freak." Or are you suggesting some kind of "tough love" policy, where the refugees have to learn to survive without international aid or a safe place to live, but are then super thankful for having been taught a valuable life lesson (unless they die first)?

Btw, the refugees too are "innocent people suffering."

Expand Quote

Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.

[close]

I know. Just look what happened to America when they let in all those poor people.

[close]

who for the most part spoke the same language, shared the same religious beliefs and had the drive and work ethic to make a life for themselves and didn't expect the government to support them...

what year are we talking about here ? when did america let in " these people " ?

[Monty Burns]

Four-fifths of Germans want border controls

The poll, conducted by Initiative Markt- und Sozialforschung (Initiative for Market and Social Research) shows a big turnaround in opinion on the migrant crisis in recent weeks.
Well over half - 59 percent - of respondents thought Chancellor Angela Merkel had been wrong to allow Syrian refugees to travel unhindered to Germany from Hungary.

That was a big turnaround from the last poll on the subject, in which 66 percent of people asked said it had been the right decision to let the Syrians in.

http://www.thelocal.de/20151006/four-fifths-of-germans-want-border-controls

81% of Germans say Merkel has made a mess of the migrant situation as her popularity hits five-year low

Chancellor has dropped 12 points to just 46% in approval poll in one month
88% are in favour of reducing benefits for 'integration-reluctant' refugees
63% say there should be limit to how many asylum seekers are allowed in
Germany saw 1.1 million migrants arrive last year and 91,000 last month

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3431244/81-Germans-say-Merkel-mess-migrant-situation-popularity-hits-five-year-low.html


Germany: over 91,000 asylum-seekers arrived in January

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3431266/Germany-91-000-asylum-seekers-arrived-January.html





And as for Sweden

Socialdemokraterna till 23 procent - den lägsta nivån sedan mätningarna startade för 26 år sedan.

The social Democrats who are in charge of Sweden had over 30% when the election was held . But now thanks to their actions during the refugee crisis have gone down to 23% . The lowest support in 26 years

Moderaterna går framåt med 3,4 procentenheter och får nu 27,2 procent

The Moderate Party has gone up almost 4% and is now getting 27% . Its noted that they were for  free imigration last time they were in charge . The lost the election .  Now they have changed the direction of their refugee politics and are now  on the rise

The Swedish Democrats which have the most hardline politics against the refugee crisis is at almost 19% and the third biggest party in Sweden now . If the Modorate and Swedish Democrats join together they can take over the politics of Sweden

There is alot of talk about holding a new election and not waiting until 2018 , and there is talk about voting on a new budget for Sweden

Sweden Democrats rise in voting %  .  This is in parallel  with the rise of Refugee intake

2002:1.4%
2006:2.9%
2010:5.7%
2014:12.9%
2015:15.8%
2016: 19%

The only really big things that have happend in Sweden since the election of the Social Democrats :

The Swedish foreign  minister banned from israel
The Police Scandals about lying / covering up refugee crimes
The refugee crisis


http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/politik/moderaterna-rycker-ifran-medan-s-rasar/


Migrationsverket släpper sin prognos

140 000 asylsökande, varav 27 000 ensamkommande barn.

Swedish Migration offices (The ones who deal with refugees ) releases its prognosis for 2016

Up to 140 000 asylum seekers , 27 000 which will be children without anyone with them

Noted that these are only the ones seeking asylum . Not the ones entering the country illegally and going under ground

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/migrationsverket-slapper-sin-prognos/



For those that said bombing / military action would have no effect on ISIS

Number of ISIS fighters dropped by 20 per cent in the last year thanks to deaths and desertions, US intelligence report finds

Number of ISIS fighters dropped by 20 per cent in the last year thanks to deaths and desertions, US intelligence report finds
ISIS fighters are defecting and being killed in battle, while flow of new recruits is slowing down, officials claimed in the report Thursday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433006/US-officials-claim-modest-progress-fight-against-ISIS-number-terrorist-fighters-decrease-estimated-25-000-troops.html

[Garth Marenghi]

As this discussion is going nowhere, maybe you should start spamming those links on your facebook page instead.

[Monty Burns]

Hey Alan . You forgot to answer my questions and my replies to your questions . I have to assume that you forgot them . I would hate to think you are too much of a coward to answer them


To reiterate, you asked about personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, then started going on about government contingency plans as if that was what you asked about. Even you can see that there's a discrepancy there.

I asked several question , you are just trying to lump them into one , and claiming it has nothing to do with the thread . I gave several options for you to answer a "what would you do " for you to be open to answer

A fire or a crash are very simple situations

Are they ? how many thousands die every year cause they did stupid things and panicked ? How many thousands die every year cause they stay inside a burning house to try to help people , or who get lost in the house thanks to fire and smoke ?

How many people start even bigger  fires by pouring water on grease and oil fires thinking it will end the fire ?


you didn't ask what we would do if we were in the Syrians' position, but rather what we would do if a war broke out in our country

You refuse to answer the question cause  you would have to imagine your country being in a civil war ?

but you would be ok with imagine your self being Syrian and being at war  ?

You're jumping from topic to topic again.

Am I ?  Countries voting on how to deal with refugees in the thread about  how to deal with refugees is jumping topic ?

The point of this topic is to discuss and debate the refugee crisis in Europe

So yeah ? what you would do if you were in the position of a refugee and votes about the refugee crisis are not relevant to the discussion

Maybe you should post some rules to this thread on what exactly we are allowed to talk about

seeing as you are a high school dropout who's not very bright

You keep bringing that up , how is that relevant to this discussion ?

Me asking a " What would you do if you were in shoes of a syrian " or " what would you do if civil war broke out in your country :
are not relevant in a discution about refugees

But me not wanting to take Spanish or math is relevant in a discussion about refugees  ?

Yes, that is exactly the point of this discussion, minus the shitty Merkel remark. Now that you know, maybe you'll begin to think about making relevant points.

You know maybe I was wrong , maybe the Swedish government and Merkel is watching this thread . Seems like the view on who is a legit refugee and who is not is becoming quite clear. Is there any country who is talking about expanding their refugee intake ?

Seems more like more and more countries are talking about closing up and kick them out . I guess Ice Nine was right ,


Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach,

I know this , but thats not what Im saying . Im saying ALL camps in Syria and Afghanistan and no camps in Europe . I saw the map you posted on the first page And I belive I said I was wrong and thanked you ? 

Anyways some camps close to Syria is not enough, still had 200k refugees coming into Sweden and 1 million into Germany . All camps should be over there


Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees?

I thought we have been doing it for some time now ? greeks forcing boats back . Hungary and other countries throwing up barb wire fences . Women in Germany and Sweden fighting back to not get raped ? Police arresting refugees in all countries for sexual assault , rape , assault , murder , attempt of murder  ?

The swedish refugee worker who got stabbed to death was trying to fight for her life .


Time to start hoarding food and weapons

Im not sure about the food , but
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html

seems like alot of people are taking you up on your advice

Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.

Why not ? If I agree on 90% of the Green Partys platform but not 10% . Does that mean I cant vote on the green party ?
Its still probably higher then I would agree with other parties platform

What if the fighting started mid term ? I cant change who I voted for . So even if there was a war and if the green party was against it
I couldnt change my vote and I would have still voted for the green party

If there was a civil war in Sweden I assume the green party would make up a new platform so neither you or me could say now what the their platform would be


German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything,

So DM was correct ? whats your point ?
 


SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.

Soooo ?  more poor refugees that need germany to keep them safe is attacking german senior citizens and trying to molest german women ?

[Monty Burns]

As this discussion is going nowhere, maybe you should start spamming those links on your facebook page instead.

Posting links with articles showing facts about how the refugee crisis is fucked and how people feel about accepting all these refugees are valid points in this discussion

[Tufty]

To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.

OF course its that. However what are the ideas behind this Ideological stances??? The one is the idea of the supermacist European-American that is more entitled to resources and stealing them from undeveloped nations having to supress them when they dare to ask for a portion of that, using violence and racist propaganda. The other idea is the humanitarian one that says all people should have a portion of the produced wealth that can provide them a decent quality of life, which is totally achievable but you have to disturb some rich folks. Choose a side but when you choose No1 stop wondering why people call you a racist prick or a Nazi.