Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock

[art hellman]

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seeing the GX raw footage would tell us:

-what led up to the incident
-what words were exchanged
-who all was there and which ones were the actual assaulters
-whether he was hit with a fist or a skateboard
-whether he hit his head on the ground
-the immediate aftermath


Black Rock has been skated for 25+ years(especially the last few) and it said he has been a security guard there for 10 years -- surely he was a known entity

[close]

That raw footage is deleted and the hard drive thrown in the ocean. You think he's holding that with how serious this is?

[close]

his defense attorney has referenced it multiple times claiming it exonerates him and intends to submit it as evidence

where are you getting this information re: the defense attorney? 

[tkp]

Nice to see you changing your stance on it with further evidence, but please don't pretend like you didn't come on here playing the what-if game when you assumed how the guard approached the skateboarders. You attempted to show the guard as the aggressor with the "if he had worked there for 10 years dealing with skateboarders, do you really think he would've been calm and cool" bullshit. You absolutely had a motive.

I should have clarified my motive comment as it was more towards the person who said I was posting on here to promote / attempt to revive a brand, which is not the case.

When I look at how you and others will interpret it, I agree with your conclusion and apologize for not clarifying it. In that case yes, I had a motive to present the side that maybe the guard had a role in the escalation.

Looking back at following this, I've learned to not make any assumptions until presented full evidence because everyone has different experiences in life and will pull off of those situations to form a judgement about the parties involved in an incident.

I hope people on all sides of the issue are looking at this to prevent it from happening again.

[fongool]

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seeing the GX raw footage would tell us:

-what led up to the incident
-what words were exchanged
-who all was there and which ones were the actual assaulters
-whether he was hit with a fist or a skateboard
-whether he hit his head on the ground
-the immediate aftermath


Black Rock has been skated for 25+ years(especially the last few) and it said he has been a security guard there for 10 years -- surely he was a known entity

[close]

That raw footage is deleted and the hard drive thrown in the ocean. You think he's holding that with how serious this is?

[close]

his defense attorney has referenced it multiple times claiming it exonerates him and intends to submit it as evidence

[close]

where are you getting this information re: the defense attorney?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Security-guard-left-with-brain-injury-after-fight-13509942.php

"But Doug Rappaport, Vieira’s defense attorney, said in court Friday that he has evidence that proves his client was defending himself in the incident.

Video taken by a skateboarder from inside the fracas, he said, shows another man initially striking Jansen, who fell to the ground. Jansen then got up and started throwing punches at Vieira, Rappaport said.

Vieira defended himself, first swinging his skateboard toward Jansen before the two exchanged punches and Jansen fell to the ground unconscious, Rappaport said.

“Jesse was only defending himself here,” he said. “The security guard fell to the ground and hit his head,” he said. “It’s tragic for everybody. But for the second video, an innocent kid would be doing a lot of time.”"

He's essentially saying someone else in the crew hit the security guard first.

[Jim and Dan]

Holy shit, Jesse Vieira is so fucked! He'll be going to jail for a couple of years...

No bail? Christ, they give bail to murderers & child-molesters for christ-sakes, that's some serious shit.

Don't fucking hit people with skateboards in today's hyper-vigilant law enforcement day-&-age, didn't he ever watch 'Kids'? I mean, did they really fear for their lives? Punch him with your fucking hands & avoid serious assault charges, unless Jesse is a 5th degree blackbelt & his hands are registered lethal weapons; in that case it doesn't matter. 

[feedmeseymour]

quotes from a post on that security guard forum.

If I was the guard, I'd do the required minimum like post a sign, then kick back and enjoy the show, and maybe HOPE a skater falls and cracks his head open. Film it for MY YouTube $$$. Figure out a way for an air-horn to blast or blinding light to happen, just as they enter a tricky stunt.

https://youtu.be/H6DqWP733F4?t=38

If the skateboarders are regulars at the post after biz hours, invite over a few Pitbull owners of a certain demographic, of which their are many in 'Frisco.

Another angle, which would be tricky but could be powerful, is enlist a chick with a camera to get the "professional skater"s name and address, then sue him for "damages" to the property

[Jerkstore]

An interesting aspect of the story is that they took him to ER at General Hospital, which has a policy that states they don't accept any type of medical insurance (but that shit ain't free). This allows them to charge whatever they want for services, without being constrained by pre-negotiated deals between insurers and the hospital. This likely made the bill be orders of magnitude higher than it needed to be.

Jesus, no wonder people jump out of ambulances

[DCLOVE]

Damn I forgot about this thread till someone mentioned the delatorre thing in the Louie thread. It really did turn out to be GX. That’s crazy. This whole thing sad.

[weregoingunion]

a tragic

[potpie]

The uncut video kinda gives you a better perspective of the whole thing:

I'm assuming Jesse is the one in the black hoodie with the white tee sticking out. He came after the fact. There was somebody else that initially pushed him to the ground. The first person was a goofy skater (Might have been Delatorre) that got his board taken away first. As he was trying to take his board back it looked like he either pushed him to the ground or Dan might have fell from letting go of the board. Then Jesse came out of nowhere to punch him as he was getting up but kinda looked like he missed. Dan then came right at him to grab him and Jesse's first reaction is to swing his board toward his head. Dan still has a hold on Jesse and Jesse then either shoves or punches himself off of him. That's when he falls then hits his head on the floor and is out cold. I wish i could see the rest, according to somebody here they mentioned that someone stayed behind to call for help. If that's the case id like to see that unless all they did was run away.

it looks like whoever shoves him reaches down and picks their board off the ground to dan's right side

[DannyDee]

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An interesting aspect of the story is that they took him to ER at General Hospital, which has a policy that states they don't accept any type of medical insurance (but that shit ain't free). This allows them to charge whatever they want for services, without being constrained by pre-negotiated deals between insurers and the hospital. This likely made the bill be orders of magnitude higher than it needed to be.

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Jesus, no wonder people jump out of ambulances

I always find that shit fucked. Like, when you hear of school shootings, and they pledge to cover the medical bills. Like, what the fuck, the person gets shot and now is in crippling debt unless charities step in?

[HugeBodBoyle]

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An interesting aspect of the story is that they took him to ER at General Hospital, which has a policy that states they don't accept any type of medical insurance (but that shit ain't free). This allows them to charge whatever they want for services, without being constrained by pre-negotiated deals between insurers and the hospital. This likely made the bill be orders of magnitude higher than it needed to be.

[close]

Jesus, no wonder people jump out of ambulances

AN AMBULANCE? IN THIS ECONOMY?

*leaps*

[Get the strap]

Some skaters writing some positive comments:

https://www.gofundme.com/friends-of-dan-jansen

Anybody know when the trial resumes?

[roba]

fuckin thrasher is donating money to skaters' gofundme projects, i'm hoping they'll donate to dan's as well, i mean gx has a strong thrasher connection so why wouldn't they?

[KRKD1]

Damn fucked for everyone involved. Specially dude just doing his job. Bad look for GX nd Jesse for sure. Self defense clearly a crock of shit in this scenario. You got to have legitimate and justifiable concern for your life, that just ain't whats happening here and you ain't gonna convince no judge or jury otherwise.

But shit dudes idk about California but in Illinois that's mob action and a Felony sentene here. Makes you wonder who all has ended up being charged and or investigated as suspects at the moment. The scenes a bit different out here but if this same scenario happened downtown chi or even in the brubs they'd get all of em up on some serious charges Simply for associating together in the vicinity of dude getting fucked up so badly.

     Sec. 25-1. Mob action.
    (a) A person commits mob action when he or she engages in any of the following:
        (1) the knowing or reckless use of force or violence
    disturbing the public peace by 2 or more persons acting together and without authority of law;

 (3) A participant in a mob action that by violence
       inflicts injury to the person or property of another commits a Class 4 felony

[billy.pepperidge]

Fish are breathing a sigh of relief.
Props on Kalis, big drop and it's not his mess.

[Battery Aziz]

Fish are breathing a sigh of relief.
Props on Kalis, big drop and it's not his mess.

Just saw that Kalis donated $500 right now. Good on him

[DannyDee]

fuckin thrasher is donating money to skaters' gofundme projects, i'm hoping they'll donate to dan's as well, i mean gx has a strong thrasher connection so why wouldn't they?

Because I bet Thrasher is scared shitless of their potential liability in a civil case (They promote GX's content, they are executive producers on their projects, it can be argued Gershall was filming for them at the time this happened). You have to think any personal injury lawyer worth anything is going to go after them, because they have way more money than Jesse Vieira.

[DannyDee]

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Fish are breathing a sigh of relief.
Props on Kalis, big drop and it's not his mess.

[close]

Just saw that Kalis donated $500 right now. Good on him

DGKalis proving again why he's one of the best dudes in the industry.

[Chapingro]

DGKalis showing people what the right move is. GX is a bunch of moooaaaarrrrks. Not to mention how they ripped off a latina artists design for their MUNI logo. Wack sauce.

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Fish are breathing a sigh of relief.
Props on Kalis, big drop and it's not his mess.

[close]

Just saw that Kalis donated $500 right now. Good on him

[close]

DGKalis proving again why he's one of the best dudes in the industry.

[Alan]

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An interesting aspect of the story is that they took him to ER at General Hospital, which has a policy that states they don't accept any type of medical insurance (but that shit ain't free). This allows them to charge whatever they want for services, without being constrained by pre-negotiated deals between insurers and the hospital. This likely made the bill be orders of magnitude higher than it needed to be.

[close]

Jesus, no wonder people jump out of ambulances

[close]

AN AMBULANCE? IN THIS ECONOMY?

*leaps*

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er-bills-zuckerberg-san-francisco-general-hospital

Tech will save the world.

[weregoingunion]

DGKalis showing people what the right move is. GX is a bunch of moooaaaarrrrks. Not to mention how they ripped off a latina artists design for their MUNI logo. Wack sauce.

their YAMO stickers too. but seems as though some sort of agreement has happened between cecilia & ryan

[colt cannon lunchbox]

Has everyone started to realise that GX isn't all that cool? I couldn't make it past 5 minutes into their latest video. Hill bombs aren't that exciting... and I've never liked watching people skate house spots.

[SIMPLY]

I'd love to hear what agreement Ryan and Cecilia came to about the Muni bus ripoff, because that one was pretty wack

[nasalcrilltobackpaddle]

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I have gotten shit for this and a few days ago I saw security video footage that showed the guard making the first attack

[close]

I feel the need to clarify what I see as a common misunderstanding. The security role is to guard ( defend ) the property with which your assigned to. If, in doing so, a person (or group of people) physically prevent you from doing so ( moving your barriers ) in an aggressive manner you are legally justified to reflect that level of aggression via the use of force continuum. If you are alone and are working against an assumed group of 7 ( because they were all working in unison as skateboarders ) you are typically justified in making the first "attack" because it's being done defensively by virtue of your role and the circumstances, in this case.

[close]

verbal non-compliance only warrants soft touch(garner vs Tennessee) I had thought he told them to leave, they wouldn’t, they moved barriers and he made first physical contact.

"In practice, however, the Garner case has had less impact on state-level police practices than originally may have been anticipated. This is because Garner, and a subsequent case, Graham v. Connor, 490 US 386 (1989), established that the reasonableness of an officer's use of force, whether against a fleeing suspect or otherwise, is to be determined from the perspective of the officer under the circumstances that were apparent to him or her at the time. As the Graham court made clear, this deferential standard prevents most second-guessing of an officer's judgment about use of force. Indeed, it may be that Garner's legacy is not so much one of changing the use of deadly force by police as it is of eliding use of force policies and practices by shifting them from the statutory to the customary."



Maybe you should read the entire wikipedia article next time, dummy

[cynical cow]

I wish I was able to donate more. That's awesome Kalis just dropped $500. I didn't realize the severity of his injury until today when I saw his gofundme. Horrible.

[ShyLow]

Has everyone started to realise that GX isn't all that cool? I couldn't make it past 5 minutes into their latest video. Hill bombs aren't that exciting... and I've never liked watching people skate house spots.

Maybe skateboard videos aren't your thing

[GeorgeCostanza]

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Filming homeless people is played out as fuck and pretty exploitative.

[close]

What? While filming street people certainly has the *potential* to be exploitative, it is not inherently so. Skateboarding is a street activity and is intertwined with street culture, of which homeless populations are a huge part of. Pretty much every time I skate in an urban environment I interact with street dwellers...it’s just documenting your environment. Christ, Ocean Howell basically wrote his fucking dissertation on the subject.

In fact I would say most of the time skate videos actually function as one of the only mediums in which homeless populations are provided with any visibility whatsoever. You’re talking about basically the most vulnerable and neglected populations which most people don’t even acknowledge as human, whereas skaters constantly talk, share with, and hang out with them on a regular basis.

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What are you talking about? I didn't say anything against interacting, talking with, or sharing space with homeless people. That's obviously a part of street skateboarding - shit, that's a part of living in any metropolitan environment. However, filming them playing a very particular role (and don't kid yourself, it's always a certain role, and it doesn't do a good job at humanizing them) and putting them in your video without their consent to show how "rough" or "street" your environment is a weak move (not to mention a trite skate video cliche). Huge difference.

[close]

Glad you agree all of those things are a part of street skating. If you’re a good filmer, you’re recording all of them and using them in your edits because they are a part of the story and experience. It’s not hard to do and many people do it well.

I can list off more than a dozen examples of skate videos, multiple by GX even*, in which homeless people are in no way shape or form exploited and are rather portrayed positively and integral to the video itself. You’re a good poster and skate nerd, I’m sure you can think of more than I can.

You made a blanket statement and it’s simply not true. Context is absolutely everything.

*(for the record GX also uses them in exploitative manners as well, volleys being the worst)

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Not only am I willing to bet/argue that the number of instances of exploiting homeless people in skate videos greatly outnumbers the humanizing moments (like when someone sits down and has a conversation with a homeless person, yeah, that’s fine), but more importantly, I can list off plenty of classic street skating videos that didn’t feature a single homeless person or bum for atmospheric purposes. The issue has a lot of grey areas and is obviously not as morally corrupt as the main topic st hand, but sticking a clip of a homeless person in a video is beyond played out. If EE3 and Static II didn’t need any bums to convey a “street” environment, I’m hard-pressed to think of a reason any filmer would.

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I'm guessing you guys have slightly differing definitions of what exploitation entails. It can definitely be a thin line but I think for the most part, simply filming a homeless person when you're out getting clips, especially if they're talking to you, isn't exploiting anyone. It's literally just the reality of whatever area you happening to be skating and filming in that day.

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That and for some reason heckler can’t cop to the fact that he made a huge generalization/blanket statement.

Not arguing that it’s played out or that there are far greater negative examples—of course there are. I’m pointing out your saying that it’s inherently exploitative to film interactions with street people. It’s not. And just because some videos you love didn’t use them, doesn’t negate the fact that plenty have and it’s improved the video.

This is all so off topic now.

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Planman, I actually pointed out the differentiation in intent in bold. And you're right, it depends on your definition of exploitative, but I think it could be argued that filming someone regardless of participation or intent and putting them in your video and not compensating them in some way (not saying compensation doesn't happen) is exploitative.

Mattchew, you're clearly grasping at straws. Not only did you approach me with a faux-academic response to an argument you made up for me, but I outlined and fine-tuned my stance in follow-up posts and you just keep referring to my initial, one sentence comment as if that's all I said on the issue. Yeah, some instances of putting homeless people in skate videos aren't outright exploitative (unless you go by my definition above), but most instances are, and you just keep referring to these "mystery videos" that homeless people have greatly improved. Can't think of one. But, regardless of that, PUTTING HOMELESS PEOPLE IN YOUR VIDEO IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY AND TRITE AS FUCK. What's next, sticking up for clips of dudes blowing cigarette smoke into the camera? A passionate discussion about the Shake Junt high five?

This is super off-topic and unless you want to start another thread, I won't be continuing this conversation.

fully agree with everything youve said here heckler

[anontechnician]

Hard to let this one go, don’t see a problem with filming street

how is it exploitive

You don’t love the human being with a tongue stickin out dressed in silver?

[Dong Juan]

This was bound to happen. I can't think of a single major video (probably is though) that didn't have b-roll that glorified confrontations. Shit even the Polar video had little Emile in a wrestling match with a security guard twice his size. You could just feel that someone would go to far. I didn't think it be this bad though. I'm shook.

[heckler]

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Hard to let this one go, don’t see a problem with filming street

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how is it exploitive

You don’t love the human being with a tongue stickin out dressed in silver?

1. That dude's clearly a lurker, very likely not homeless. There's a huge difference, the main being that homeless people are a marginalized and abused demographic, often thought of as subhuman, and are more likely to suffer from mental illness, addiction, and other conditions that might keep them in their negative surroundings and prevent them from making informed decisions about being on camera.
2.

it depends on your definition of exploitative, but I think it could be argued that filming someone regardless of participation or intent and putting them in your video and not compensating them in some way ... is exploitative.