Author Topic: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition  (Read 49445 times)

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Sundaynuggets

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Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« on: December 29, 2019, 06:26:56 PM »
Since thereís some talk about Grind king, Mini logo, Tensor Alloy, Bullet, etc...trucks over in the main truck set up thread, it was suggested that it might be interesting to have a separate thread about the smaller brands outside of the big 3/4 and how they compare. So maybe anything outside of Indy, Thunder, Venture and Ace

If ya got em, post em
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 06:38:11 PM by Sundaynuggets »

satan

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 07:13:19 PM »
Here for the Indy knockoffs.
I'll kick it off with Z-Flex!!!!
If you remember the old days there was some Indy vs Z-Roller hate. Just ask Ricky about how many Indy stickers Dway put on his board at Woodward..

https://au.zflex.com/collections/trucks/products/zfx-trucks-6-25inch-polished
These are discontinued in the States but I think I saw them on Amazon

Sundaynuggets

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2019, 08:04:20 PM »
Here for the Indy knockoffs.
I'll kick it off with Z-Flex!!!!
If you remember the old days there was some Indy vs Z-Roller hate. Just ask Ricky about how many Indy stickers Dway put on his board at Woodward..

https://au.zflex.com/collections/trucks/products/zfx-trucks-6-25inch-polished
These are discontinued in the States but I think I saw them on Amazon

Interesting, those and the Industrial trucks for sure look a lot like Indyís. I didnít even realize they still made trucks at all, or that they did anything aside from those Z- rollers. I remember being mystified by those as a kid haha.


texasplant

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 08:16:02 PM »
Here for the Indy knockoffs.
I'll kick it off with Z-Flex!!!!
If you remember the old days there was some Indy vs Z-Roller hate. Just ask Ricky about how many Indy stickers Dway put on his board at Woodward..

https://au.zflex.com/collections/trucks/products/zfx-trucks-6-25inch-polished
These are discontinued in the States but I think I saw them on Amazon

I back the Z-Flex trucks. Literally feel like Indys if you get the bushings right. Good budget truck, can't speak on how they hold up as I rode them on someone elses board.

Industrials were my first truck, and don't remember anything negative about them. Saying that, I sucked and had nothing to compare them to.

Sundaynuggets

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 08:59:19 PM »
Expand Quote
Here for the Indy knockoffs.
I'll kick it off with Z-Flex!!!!
If you remember the old days there was some Indy vs Z-Roller hate. Just ask Ricky about how many Indy stickers Dway put on his board at Woodward..

https://au.zflex.com/collections/trucks/products/zfx-trucks-6-25inch-polished
These are discontinued in the States but I think I saw them on Amazon
[close]

I back the Z-Flex trucks. Literally feel like Indys if you get the bushings right. Good budget truck, can't speak on how they hold up as I rode them on someone elses board.

Industrials were my first truck, and don't remember anything negative about them. Saying that, I sucked and had nothing to compare them to.

I never really paid attention to how the baseplates influence how trucks turn until a recent experiment with frankenstein-ing some trucks I have. The little squarish part that the king pin comes out of seems to have a lot to do with it and both Zflex and Industrial baseplates (and also all the major truck companies except Krux) look like that little square part is about the same height as Indyís which makes it seem like they would turn pretty similar to Indyís, or at least have a similar turning radius.

Iím still trying to figure out what each part of the trucks geometry does, but that little bit was an interesting discovery for me
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 09:42:32 PM by Sundaynuggets »

satan

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 09:42:28 PM »
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3183100#msg3183100



Anyone seen this?
It's easy to eyeball and compare if you have the trucks in hand but I think getting accurate measurements would be frustrating
You wanna imagine a line going thru the center of the pivot nub/cup and where the hanger pivots on the bottom (baseplate side) bushing. I try to guess where the top of the bushing would intersect the center of the kingpin
Then for offset you're eyeballing off that imaginary line. Roll center might be worth noting too
Try to explain that to the guy at Zumiez


http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_skateboards_turn
Some math here


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview
And some measurements here

whatsreallygood

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 09:52:10 PM »
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden

Sundaynuggets

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 09:57:05 PM »
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden

What do you like about them compared to other brands you have used?

Woos

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2019, 11:11:42 PM »
Destructos had the best manuals back in the early 2000s for me.  I rocked the lows with an 8.0" Zoo York.  I've been tempted to try them again.

Bullets are trash until you put Bones Hardcore bushings in them.  Then they skate very similarly to Thunders but with a shorter wheelbase.

rocklobster

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2019, 01:52:08 AM »
Destructos had the best manuals back in the early 2000s for me.  I rocked the lows with an 8.0" Zoo York.  I've been tempted to try them again.

Bullets are trash until you put Bones Hardcore bushings in them.  Then they skate very similarly to Thunders but with a shorter wheelbase.

There are a pair of Kre-per trucks on sale for $15, now I'm tempted to get them for a laugh

Woos

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2019, 01:55:59 AM »
Expand Quote
Destructos had the best manuals back in the early 2000s for me.  I rocked the lows with an 8.0" Zoo York.  I've been tempted to try them again.

Bullets are trash until you put Bones Hardcore bushings in them.  Then they skate very similarly to Thunders but with a shorter wheelbase.
[close]

There are a pair of Kre-per trucks on sale for $15, now I'm tempted to get them for a laugh

Thatís cheaper than a game on sale on Steam or a trip to the movie theater.

If you get a couple of hours of use out of them and enjoy the experience I feel like itís worth it.  Chances are youíll get a lot more than that and you can give us a review. Who knows, maybe youíll like them... lol.

Edit: plus you might pick up a tig bitty goth gf with them. Make sure youíre rocking a Zero, Creatire or DW deck with them.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 01:59:41 AM by Woos »

moonordie

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2019, 02:45:19 AM »
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden
I second this, ATG are freaking awesome.
Expand Quote
forgive me if i somehow missed it, but could someone help me with just how flat the flat as fuck decks really are?
[close]

As Fuck.

off

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2019, 03:06:04 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Destructos had the best manuals back in the early 2000s for me.  I rocked the lows with an 8.0" Zoo York.  I've been tempted to try them again.

Bullets are trash until you put Bones Hardcore bushings in them.  Then they skate very similarly to Thunders but with a shorter wheelbase.
[close]

There are a pair of Kre-per trucks on sale for $15, now I'm tempted to get them for a laugh
[close]

Thatís cheaper than a game on sale on Steam or a trip to the movie theater.

If you get a couple of hours of use out of them and enjoy the experience I feel like itís worth it.  Chances are youíll get a lot more than that and you can give us a review. Who knows, maybe youíll like them... lol.

Edit: plus you might pick up a tig bitty goth gf with them. Make sure youíre rocking a Zero, Creatire or DW deck with them.

thats a deal i cant deny

i hear she'll do forbidden bdsm if you hardflip el toro on kreepers
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Noble Experiment

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2019, 03:23:17 AM »
Outside of Indy and venture I've only had destructos and royals back in the day.
I really liked the destructos, the set I had was actually pretty carvy; thought they felt pretty similar to Indys.

I remember not liking the royals and the kingpin on one of them snapped not long into skating em.

Spicy boi.

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 10:10:08 AM »
Skating 8.75 mini logos on a polar Dane1 right now, and it feels heavenly. Lighter than indys, and have a nice low fast turn like thunders. Perfection

Sundaynuggets

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2019, 10:14:05 AM »
Skating 8.75 mini logos on a polar Dane1 right now, and it feels heavenly. Lighter than indys, and have a nice low fast turn like thunders. Perfection

I was talking to someone about those Mini logos and they said similar things! I hear they grind really nicely too. How is the wb with them? Like further out like Thunder/Venture? Or more in like a Aces?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 10:15:52 AM by Sundaynuggets »

breezer

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2019, 10:14:50 AM »
Skating 8.75 mini logos on a polar Dane1 right now, and it feels heavenly. Lighter than indys, and have a nice low fast turn like thunders. Perfection

this - oh and mini logos are half the price of Indys too.......been riding them for a while now, no issues. 

Xen

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2019, 10:25:54 AM »
Trucks in my quiver (along side ACE and Venture right now):

Mini Logo 8.37s - Skate like the Indy/Theeve/ACE camp, i.e., carvey. They're light, stable, turn very nicely, nice pop (low truck at 49mm) and grind great. Terribly underrated because Mini Logo. At $4 cheaper than say, a Thunder Standard the savings isn't really that great. I bought them just to check them out and was pretty blown away. A bit too low for my tastes and I'd rather not mess around with risers. Stock bushings are pretty hard (white) need the soft greens if you like to turn. I modded mine with a krux kingpin and ACE tall bottoms and low top bushings. Note: they pull in the wheelbase.

Theeve TiKing - Theeve were created to make a better build quality Indy (axle slippage) and probably to lessen import cost for those down under). Theeve was born around Indy Stage X (the stage that didn't turn); the prototypes ran on ACE baseplates to give you an idea of how they wanted them to turn. They're a quicker turning (oval yoke) more stable Indy. Theeve also kicked off the whole Titanium trend with the TiAX. Stock bushings are no longer bones but the theeve branded hardcore bushings (that are hard as fuck, I ride them with bones). Note: they pull in the wheelbase tighter than ACE.

Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.

I'm really kind of hooked on the ATGs....they work everywhere and outside of some softer bushings there is nothing to fuckswith.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 10:32:26 AM by Xen »

Cordyceps

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2019, 11:18:24 AM »
Expand Quote
Skating 8.75 mini logos on a polar Dane1 right now, and it feels heavenly. Lighter than indys, and have a nice low fast turn like thunders. Perfection
[close]

this - oh and mini logos are half the price of Indys too.......been riding them for a while now, no issues.
They're also a perfect match for Ace bushings (if you're willing to to buy both Low & Classic sizes). The Ace Low top bushing matches the Mini Logo and the Ace Classic bottom matches the Mini Logo bottom. The result is great since the Mini Logo duro's are somewhat extreme at 94 & 84 - depending on your weight or preference.
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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2019, 11:55:46 AM »
I ride Destructo d1 mid mag 5.5 with orange mini logo pivot cups, top washer on, no bottom, indy red conical tops and blue conical bottoms. Both kinpins are loose, front one slightly more. Somehow I love them.

backinaction

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2019, 12:26:39 PM »
Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.


How is the grind on metal coping compared to ACE?  I love me some ACE at the park - they grind faster than Indy. I thought I saw someone say that the mag-lights are super fast on crud and not-so-much on metal.

whatsreallygood

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2019, 01:44:24 PM »
Expand Quote
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden
[close]

What do you like about them compared to other brands you have used?

- I don't get sloppy bolt holes since the baseplate has little nubs that stop the baseplate shifting during slides
-  The baseplate sticks out enough that slides don't jam like thunders
- The bushings that come stock don't need any break in and skate better than bones or anything else imo
- The turning to me is only 2nd to ace, and even then I prefer this since setting up for certain flip tricks where my feet are close together is easier cause there's more stability
- The trucks are really stable when setting up for flip tricks at speed, manualing, etc.
- The kingpin doesn't catch on smith/feeble variations
- The wheelbase is a happy medium between thunder and indy

It solves all the obvious problems most trucks have without compromising anything for me

whatsreallygood

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2019, 01:48:10 PM »
Expand Quote
Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.

[close]

How is the grind on metal coping compared to ACE?  I love me some ACE at the park - they grind faster than Indy. I thought I saw someone say that the mag-lights are super fast on crud and not-so-much on metal.

The mag ones grind even faster, the aluminium ones grind slightly slower, imo

Xen

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2019, 01:49:30 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.

[close]

How is the grind on metal coping compared to ACE?  I love me some ACE at the park - they grind faster than Indy. I thought I saw someone say that the mag-lights are super fast on crud and not-so-much on metal.
[close]

The mag ones grind even faster, the aluminium ones grind slightly slower, imo

I haven't noticed them being slower, if anything they've gotten faster after they've been ground down a bit (just like any other truck).

Had a slappy session yesterday skating two setups: one with the ATG Mags and one with Ventures, on the same worn in curbs and going roughly as fast as I could each time, the mags were only slightly 'longer' grinding (after the speed slowed down) - it's not like they are suddenly going to make grind 50% farther or anything. The major plus is they grind on curbs not smoothed out (and even then they still hung up) better than standard aluminum trucks.

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden
[close]

What do you like about them compared to other brands you have used?
[close]

- I don't get sloppy bolt holes since the baseplate has little nubs that stop the baseplate shifting during slides
- The baseplate sticks out enough that slides don't jam like thunders
- The bushings that come stock don't need any break in and skate better than bones or anything else imo
- The turning to me is only 2nd to ace, and even then I prefer this since setting up for certain flip tricks where my feet are close together is easier cause there's more stability
- The trucks are really stable when setting up for flip tricks at speed, manualing, etc.
- The kingpin doesn't catch on smith/feeble variations
- The wheelbase is a happy medium between thunder and indy

It solves all the obvious problems most trucks have without compromising anything for me

I agree with everything listed but the bushings. I found them much too hard resulting in tighter than I wanted trucks, for me they'd need to be broken in, something I didn't bother since you can throw in bones.

If you ride loose, the bushings aren't ideal (at first probably) also, the top washer binds if riding loose, recommend using the flat bones washer on top.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 06:35:08 PM by Xen »

whatsreallygood

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2019, 01:51:46 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.

[close]

How is the grind on metal coping compared to ACE?  I love me some ACE at the park - they grind faster than Indy. I thought I saw someone say that the mag-lights are super fast on crud and not-so-much on metal.
[close]

The mag ones grind even faster, the aluminium ones grind slightly slower, imo
[close]

I haven't noticed them being slower, if anything they've gotten faster after they've been ground down a bit (just like any other truck).

I'd agree, I just find the ACE grind slightly faster since they have VERY soft aluminum, at least my pair seems to. Btw really good breakdown on Theeve, Mini Logo and Tensor trucks dude

Sundaynuggets

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2019, 02:14:13 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden
[close]

What do you like about them compared to other brands you have used?
[close]

- I don't get sloppy bolt holes since the baseplate has little nubs that stop the baseplate shifting during slides
-  The baseplate sticks out enough that slides don't jam like thunders
- The bushings that come stock don't need any break in and skate better than bones or anything else imo
- The turning to me is only 2nd to ace, and even then I prefer this since setting up for certain flip tricks where my feet are close together is easier cause there's more stability
- The trucks are really stable when setting up for flip tricks at speed, manualing, etc.
- The kingpin doesn't catch on smith/feeble variations
- The wheelbase is a happy medium between thunder and indy

It solves all the obvious problems most trucks have without compromising anything for me

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to list all that. Thatís exactly the info Iím interested in!

baustin

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2019, 02:55:54 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden
[close]

What do you like about them compared to other brands you have used?
[close]

- I don't get sloppy bolt holes since the baseplate has little nubs that stop the baseplate shifting during slides
-  The baseplate sticks out enough that slides don't jam like thunders
- The bushings that come stock don't need any break in and skate better than bones or anything else imo
- The turning to me is only 2nd to ace, and even then I prefer this since setting up for certain flip tricks where my feet are close together is easier cause there's more stability
- The trucks are really stable when setting up for flip tricks at speed, manualing, etc.
- The kingpin doesn't catch on smith/feeble variations
- The wheelbase is a happy medium between thunder and indy

It solves all the obvious problems most trucks have without compromising anything for me
[close]

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to list all that. Thatís exactly the info Iím interested in!

Jesus Christ, I was just started to feel fully happy with my Thunders. Why do I click on these threads??

Diocletian

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2019, 03:45:20 PM »
Trucks in my quiver (along side ACE and Venture right now):

Mini Logo 8.37s - Skate like the Indy/Theeve/ACE camp, i.e., carvey. They're light, stable, turn very nicely, nice pop (low truck at 49mm) and grind great. Terribly underrated because Mini Logo. At $4 cheaper than say, a Thunder Standard the savings isn't really that great. I bought them just to check them out and was pretty blown away. A bit too low for my tastes and I'd rather not mess around with risers. Stock bushings are pretty hard (white) need the soft greens if you like to turn. I modded mine with a krux kingpin and ACE tall bottoms and low top bushings. Note: they pull in the wheelbase.

Theeve TiKing - Theeve were created to make a better build quality Indy (axle slippage) and probably to lessen import cost for those down under). Theeve was born around Indy Stage X (the stage that didn't turn); the prototypes ran on ACE baseplates to give you an idea of how they wanted them to turn. They're a quicker turning (oval yoke) more stable Indy. Theeve also kicked off the whole Titanium trend with the TiAX. Stock bushings are no longer bones but the theeve branded hardcore bushings (that are hard as fuck, I ride them with bones). Note: they pull in the wheelbase tighter than ACE.

Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.

I'm really kind of hooked on the ATGs....they work everywhere and outside of some softer bushings there is nothing to fuckswith.

In terms of a quicker and deeper turn, would you give the edge to Theeve or Tensor?

whatsreallygood

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2019, 04:01:56 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I am unironically tensor or die atm. ATGs are the best trucks I've ridden
[close]

What do you like about them compared to other brands you have used?
[close]

- I don't get sloppy bolt holes since the baseplate has little nubs that stop the baseplate shifting during slides
-  The baseplate sticks out enough that slides don't jam like thunders
- The bushings that come stock don't need any break in and skate better than bones or anything else imo
- The turning to me is only 2nd to ace, and even then I prefer this since setting up for certain flip tricks where my feet are close together is easier cause there's more stability
- The trucks are really stable when setting up for flip tricks at speed, manualing, etc.
- The kingpin doesn't catch on smith/feeble variations
- The wheelbase is a happy medium between thunder and indy

It solves all the obvious problems most trucks have without compromising anything for me
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Awesome, thanks for taking the time to list all that. Thatís exactly the info Iím interested in!
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Jesus Christ, I was just started to feel fully happy with my Thunders. Why do I click on these threads??

If you get bugged by some of thunders flaws, it's worth a try, but if you're happy don't stress it. Thunders are definitely tried and true, but some of the design flaws seem so simple to fix it's frustrating they haven't done so themselves. Slide tricks with thunders can suck and the fix of just adding a few millimeters to the baseplate seems so easy and obvious. That was one of the main reasons I moved away from them (plus I'd just broken the nub on my pair), obviously you can power through it, but why compromise.

whatsreallygood

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Re: Truck set ups, less popular brands edition
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2019, 04:07:16 PM »
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Trucks in my quiver (along side ACE and Venture right now):

Mini Logo 8.37s - Skate like the Indy/Theeve/ACE camp, i.e., carvey. They're light, stable, turn very nicely, nice pop (low truck at 49mm) and grind great. Terribly underrated because Mini Logo. At $4 cheaper than say, a Thunder Standard the savings isn't really that great. I bought them just to check them out and was pretty blown away. A bit too low for my tastes and I'd rather not mess around with risers. Stock bushings are pretty hard (white) need the soft greens if you like to turn. I modded mine with a krux kingpin and ACE tall bottoms and low top bushings. Note: they pull in the wheelbase.

Theeve TiKing - Theeve were created to make a better build quality Indy (axle slippage) and probably to lessen import cost for those down under). Theeve was born around Indy Stage X (the stage that didn't turn); the prototypes ran on ACE baseplates to give you an idea of how they wanted them to turn. They're a quicker turning (oval yoke) more stable Indy. Theeve also kicked off the whole Titanium trend with the TiAX. Stock bushings are no longer bones but the theeve branded hardcore bushings (that are hard as fuck, I ride them with bones). Note: they pull in the wheelbase tighter than ACE.

Tensor ATGs - Carvey Thunders without wheelbite, and with an extended baseplate for those that tail/nose slide and have issues on Thunders  ::). The mag-lites grind for days and are ridiculously light. Pop is great, turn is great (after you put in some Bones bushings as the stock are too hard for me). Note: they push out the WB probably around the same length as Thunders.

I'm really kind of hooked on the ATGs....they work everywhere and outside of some softer bushings there is nothing to fuckswith.
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In terms of a quicker and deeper turn, would you give the edge to Theeve or Tensor?

I wanna say tensor is quicker but theeve might be deeper once you really break them in cause of the yoke and other geometry differences? It's VERY slight though and I could just be wrong. The difference would be imperceptible to me unless I really looked for it and tried to just turn for a while. It's easier describe the "feel" of turning by comparing the trucks to more "established" ones. As mentioned, theeves can be compared closer to indys and tensors to thunders. Both those trucks have a respectable turn, it's just what flavor you like.