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i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.
there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.
I agree. My wife and I had a nice discussion about this last night. The best word to describe how I feel about this is conflicted. Ultimately, I believe Taylor Silverman is in the right. Maybe her tagging of a potential lynch mob of transphobic people was a little over the top but I’m sure her emotions were running high.
I am trying to put this in the context of history. Even today, women are fighting for equal pay for equal work. They only got the right to vote across the whole United States in 1920. The proper way to introduce a married couple is still “Mr and Mrs. Insert-man’s-name-here”.
I wonder how the 1st place winner feels.
I (we?) would LOVE to hear from a transitioned woman about how they feel about this situation. For now, I’ll leave it at congratulations to Taylor Silverman on her 1st place win in the women’s competition.
Trans woman here to kindly say your post sucks.
Tagging a bunch of reactionary media figures will at best lead to the winner being harassed, and has a real likelihood of inciting violence against her/other trans skaters.
Taylor competed against a better skater and lost, shit happens. By saying she's the real 1st place winner, you're denying that trans women are actually women (yes this is transphobic).
Can you explain the stuff you added for historical context? I fail to see its relevance to this
I appreciate your response. I get it about the tagging of reactionary media figures and addressed it in my post. I am NOT going to pretend I have the right opinion or that I am “right”. I am simply participating in the conversation
I see you quoted my bit about congratulating Taylor for first place. That was inappropriate and I removed the comment before you posted your reply but you got to it first.
I have to admit that I don’t understand the word “woman”, so I looked it up in the dictionary (Merriam-Webster).I hope we can ALL appreciate that our languages are filled with gender bias and we probably do not have the correct terms to deal with this properly, but Since you stated that I am “denying that trans women are actually women” I looked it up. Let’s keep it simple. We’ll use the first definition in the dictionary:
noun
wom·an | \ ˈwu̇-mən , especially Southern ˈwō- , or ˈwə- \
plural women \ ˈwi-mən \
Definition
1a : an adult female personadjective
fe·male | \ ˈfē-ˌmāl \
Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
1a(1) : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggsSo no, according to these definitions I think we can all agree that a trans woman is not a woman, unless of course I am missing something about transitioning that allows a a trans woman to produce eggs and carry babies.
But as I said, we are limited here by gender biased language and the fact that the word “woman” has multiple definitions, we could just use other definitions of the same word:
Woman
3 : distinctively feminine nature Female
b : having a gender identity that is the opposite of maleSo yes, according to these definitions I think we can all agree that a trans woman is a woman.
So, it seems our language has not evolved, except maybe by adding “different” definitions for the same word. I doubt that a 1950s dictionary said that a female is someone who identifies as a female.
So here we are, bound by language and gender bias. There is also the idea that there are more than 2 genders but we still are stuck with “man” and “woman” for the most part.
Also, please, accept my apology if I offended you in any way. I am still learning and I try to be compassionate and understanding as much as possible, but I also suffer from bias that has been programmed in me by society and language; this thread has certainly educated me a bit more.
Regarding historical context,
women egg-bearing humans have been fighting for rights (not just equal rights, but also human rights) for….well forever it seems. My position is simply that it is unfair IF an egg-bearing individual enters a contest called “a contest for egg-bearers” and loses to a non-egg-bearing contestant.
But that is clearly not the case here; it was a women’s contest, and all the contestants were indeed women, so I concede that I am ultimately in the wrong here.