Author Topic: books to read  (Read 507355 times)

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Alan

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3270 on: August 04, 2020, 08:58:41 PM »
I'm almost 3/4 of the way through A Visit From the Goon Squad and I have to say I'm into it. It's easy prose with interesting character development. I'm not sure if this book has a bad rep, but I'm almost certain I've read some negative reviews... In any case, it's not bad, imho.

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botefdunn

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3271 on: August 04, 2020, 09:46:10 PM »





Read the John Hawkes yet? I read it a long time ago but its esthetic stuck with me.
Would be interested to know what you think/make of it.

Peter Zagreus

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3272 on: August 05, 2020, 10:22:14 AM »
Expand Quote


[close]



Read the John Hawkes yet? I read it a long time ago but its esthetic stuck with me.
Would be interested to know what you think/make of it.

Read Beetle Leg and have since read his Death, Sleep & the Traveler and dipped into both The Passion Artist and The Lime Twig (which I think might be his best, maybe tied with BL, of the stuff I've read). After BL I went up to my university library and picked up a bunch of Hawkes stuff, made a mini-project out of it. He's definitely underrated.

As you've said, the esthetic of BL is really strong, probably unlike anything I've read. The narrative shifts unpredictably in a very "postmodern" way (pretty sure Hawkes wrote it in the 50s (?), so probably ahead of the trend), but what really struck me was the dialogue, in that all the characters either seem to be talking past each other, or that the reader is meant to infer that every statement is thick with subtext. Either way, I had to pump the breaks when people started talking. I'd be interested to go back and see if there's a logic built in, or if Hawkes was just being difficult for difficulty's sake.

While I'm here...

Closing out my summer reading with some Heidegger lectures. Getting geared up to do some teaching of my own:

On thinking.

On Kant.


ride the tiger

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3273 on: August 05, 2020, 02:15:33 PM »

My unpopular opinion is that this forum is actually not about skateboarding.

oyolar

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3274 on: August 05, 2020, 10:16:37 PM »
Interested in superfascism?


ride the tiger

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3275 on: August 06, 2020, 03:38:48 AM »

My unpopular opinion is that this forum is actually not about skateboarding.

Peter Zagreus

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3276 on: August 06, 2020, 10:18:06 AM »
Expand Quote
Interested in superfascism?
[close]

Yes.

What is superfascism? I'd be interested to hear more about your interest in Evola, rtt. I feel like I'm seeing a sort of groundswell of engagement with midcentury far-right thinkers (on Twitter and Youtube, mostly), but I haven't had time to engage with the literature. Genuinely curious.

oyolar

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3277 on: August 06, 2020, 12:15:40 PM »
“Superfascism” is just how Evola described the relationship between his personal beliefs / philosophies and the Italian Fascism that grew out of them. In Italian, it can mean both “before fascism” or “over / above fascism.” I think he meant both as he seemed to treat his ideas as the more pure foundation of Italian Fascism, which he didn’t view as all-encompassing enough.

I’ve seen a lot of it pop up recently too and have my own interests in it while being very anti-fascist myself. I just personally don’t have much desire to engage with things like Evola’s primary materials as I don’t feel the need to listen to his polemics on traditionalism, etc.

I do have some interest in the mindset and ideologies behind things like mystical fascism but would rather listen / read the thoughts of experts or researchers on the topic.

I guess my comment above was whether the interest in Evola is because of an interest in understanding his impact on the far-right or because he’s someone with a philosophy you want to emulate. 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:03:18 PM by oyolar »

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3278 on: August 06, 2020, 01:07:09 PM »
I'm almost 3/4 of the way through A Visit From the Goon Squad and I have to say I'm into it. It's easy prose with interesting character development. I'm not sure if this book has a bad rep, but I'm almost certain I've read some negative reviews... In any case, it's not bad, imho.


I liked it a lot too. Very enjoyable, start to finish, with a couple punches to the stomach along the way, if I remember.

Alan

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3279 on: August 06, 2020, 01:12:45 PM »
Yes, the fragmented form really adds to those punches, imho.
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Peter Zagreus

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3280 on: August 06, 2020, 02:00:28 PM »
“Superfascism” is just how Evola described the relationship between his personal beliefs / philosophies and the Italian Fascism that grew out of them. In Italian, it can mean both “before fascism” or “over / above fascism.” I think he meant both as he seemed to treat his ideas as the more pure foundation of Italian Fascism, which he didn’t view as all-encompassing enough.

I’ve seen a lot of it pop up recently too and have my own interests in it while being very anti-fascist myself. I just personally don’t have much desire to engage with things like Evola’s primary materials as I don’t feel the need to listen to his polemics on traditionalism, etc.

I do have some interest in the mindset and ideologies behind things like musical fascism but would rather listen / read the thoughts of experts or researchers on the topic.

I guess my comment above was whether the interest in Evola is because of an interest in understanding his impact on the far-right or because he’s someone with a philosophy you want to emulate.

Ah! Thanks for clarifying that for me, oyolar. I imagine most of the people posting about Evola online are more in the emulation/inspiration camp than on the history of ideas side of things. I can't speak for ride the tiger, but their username and one-word response would suggest that they have a more personal connection to the work, and so I was fishing for a little more from them. Maybe I'll get it...

Frankly, all the "trad" stuff-of-late seems LARPy to me.

botefdunn

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3281 on: August 06, 2020, 02:04:35 PM »
“Superfascism” is just how Evola described the relationship between his personal beliefs / philosophies and the Italian Fascism that grew out of them. In Italian, it can mean both “before fascism” or “over / above fascism.” I think he meant both as he seemed to treat his ideas as the more pure foundation of Italian Fascism, which he didn’t view as all-encompassing enough.

I’ve seen a lot of it pop up recently too and have my own interests in it while being very anti-fascist myself. I just personally don’t have much desire to engage with things like Evola’s primary materials as I don’t feel the need to listen to his polemics on traditionalism, etc.

I do have some interest in the mindset and ideologies behind things like musical fascism but would rather listen / read the thoughts of experts or researchers on the topic.

I guess my comment above was whether the interest in Evola is because of an interest in understanding his impact on the far-right or because he’s someone with a philosophy you want to emulate.

Interesting. Looked up where he stood on futurism to compare his brand of fascism and apparently he was unimpressed by them. Then again, he lived to a ripe old age and died of heart failure, whereas the futurists glorified war and many of them died under fire for their fascistic beliefs. Anyhoo, you probably are familiar with the Italian futurists, but if not they might interest you if you are delving into more things art-fascist.

oyolar

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3282 on: August 06, 2020, 04:40:21 PM »
I actually love the Italian Futurist aesthetic. They have a unique relationship with Fascism that gets de-contextualized a lot (as dumb as it was). Marinetti apparently was critical of Mussolini when he was first rising in power / authoritarianism but then basically shut up and tried to make futurism the aesthetic principle of Fascism once it became clear that Mussolini was willing to kill anyone who was critical of the regime. At least according to the preface to this book, but I think it's somewhere in the middle: https://www.amazon.com/Critical-Writings-Filippo-Tommaso-Marinetti/dp/0374531072

It is interesting that Futurism aligned itself with Fascism considering their very different ideas towards the past in general, Italian past in particular.

Reading this right now and it's fantastic:

ride the tiger

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3283 on: August 06, 2020, 11:11:55 PM »
Expand Quote
“Superfascism” is just how Evola described the relationship between his personal beliefs / philosophies and the Italian Fascism that grew out of them. In Italian, it can mean both “before fascism” or “over / above fascism.” I think he meant both as he seemed to treat his ideas as the more pure foundation of Italian Fascism, which he didn’t view as all-encompassing enough.

I’ve seen a lot of it pop up recently too and have my own interests in it while being very anti-fascist myself. I just personally don’t have much desire to engage with things like Evola’s primary materials as I don’t feel the need to listen to his polemics on traditionalism, etc.

I do have some interest in the mindset and ideologies behind things like musical fascism but would rather listen / read the thoughts of experts or researchers on the topic.

I guess my comment above was whether the interest in Evola is because of an interest in understanding his impact on the far-right or because he’s someone with a philosophy you want to emulate.
[close]

Ah! Thanks for clarifying that for me, oyolar. I imagine most of the people posting about Evola online are more in the emulation/inspiration camp than on the history of ideas side of things. I can't speak for ride the tiger, but their username and one-word response would suggest that they have a more personal connection to the work, and so I was fishing for a little more from them. Maybe I'll get it...

Frankly, all the "trad" stuff-of-late seems LARPy to me.

Im not into the fashy side alot of his new fans seem to be alt right larpers, im just interested in traditionalism and love his work.

Highly suggest any of his books.

My unpopular opinion is that this forum is actually not about skateboarding.

Peter Zagreus

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3284 on: August 07, 2020, 08:48:58 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
“Superfascism” is just how Evola described the relationship between his personal beliefs / philosophies and the Italian Fascism that grew out of them. In Italian, it can mean both “before fascism” or “over / above fascism.” I think he meant both as he seemed to treat his ideas as the more pure foundation of Italian Fascism, which he didn’t view as all-encompassing enough.

I’ve seen a lot of it pop up recently too and have my own interests in it while being very anti-fascist myself. I just personally don’t have much desire to engage with things like Evola’s primary materials as I don’t feel the need to listen to his polemics on traditionalism, etc.

I do have some interest in the mindset and ideologies behind things like musical fascism but would rather listen / read the thoughts of experts or researchers on the topic.

I guess my comment above was whether the interest in Evola is because of an interest in understanding his impact on the far-right or because he’s someone with a philosophy you want to emulate.
[close]

Ah! Thanks for clarifying that for me, oyolar. I imagine most of the people posting about Evola online are more in the emulation/inspiration camp than on the history of ideas side of things. I can't speak for ride the tiger, but their username and one-word response would suggest that they have a more personal connection to the work, and so I was fishing for a little more from them. Maybe I'll get it...

Frankly, all the "trad" stuff-of-late seems LARPy to me.
[close]

Im not into the fashy side alot of his new fans seem to be alt right larpers, im just interested in traditionalism and love his work.

Highly suggest any of his books.

V cool. In my literary research, I've been looking a bit at "decadent" literature (mostly in 🇬🇧) and trying to understand the concept/phenomenon of decadence as it takes shape in the minds of the "fin de siecle." Most of the critics/prognosticators of decadence come with a counter-decadent commitment to some kind of traditionalism, so I'm interested in thinking about tradition in that (academic) context.

With respect to the contemporary culture, I think we (me, other white, secular Americans) are often too quick to dispose of, or detach from, traditions in the name of "progress." From the perspective of deep history, progress is a really dubious idea. Cultures develop and bloom over long stretches of time and under different conditions, and I think we'd all do well to think comparatively about cultural values. I think the trad revival of the moment is helping to foster this kind of thinking in some corners of the internet. I'm of the opinion, however, that (barring civilizational collapse) we can never simply "go back" to the way things were; that cultures, like organisms, evolve with time, and that addressing the contingencies of today with yesterday's culture (developed organically in its own time) might prevent us from noticing and cultivating opportunities as they arise, developing new culture, etc...

tiger, are you also into anarcho-primativist stuff? I seem to remember you having a primitivist avatar. Also, any other traditionalists you'd recommend outside of Evola?

smellsdead

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3285 on: August 07, 2020, 09:15:39 AM »

you guys rule i need to check this thread more often

little bit poetry at work today

ride the tiger

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3286 on: August 07, 2020, 09:24:14 AM »

My unpopular opinion is that this forum is actually not about skateboarding.

ride the tiger

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3287 on: August 07, 2020, 09:28:38 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
“Superfascism” is just how Evola described the relationship between his personal beliefs / philosophies and the Italian Fascism that grew out of them. In Italian, it can mean both “before fascism” or “over / above fascism.” I think he meant both as he seemed to treat his ideas as the more pure foundation of Italian Fascism, which he didn’t view as all-encompassing enough.

I’ve seen a lot of it pop up recently too and have my own interests in it while being very anti-fascist myself. I just personally don’t have much desire to engage with things like Evola’s primary materials as I don’t feel the need to listen to his polemics on traditionalism, etc.

I do have some interest in the mindset and ideologies behind things like musical fascism but would rather listen / read the thoughts of experts or researchers on the topic.

I guess my comment above was whether the interest in Evola is because of an interest in understanding his impact on the far-right or because he’s someone with a philosophy you want to emulate.
[close]

Ah! Thanks for clarifying that for me, oyolar. I imagine most of the people posting about Evola online are more in the emulation/inspiration camp than on the history of ideas side of things. I can't speak for ride the tiger, but their username and one-word response would suggest that they have a more personal connection to the work, and so I was fishing for a little more from them. Maybe I'll get it...

Frankly, all the "trad" stuff-of-late seems LARPy to me.
[close]

Im not into the fashy side alot of his new fans seem to be alt right larpers, im just interested in traditionalism and love his work.

Highly suggest any of his books.
[close]

V cool. In my literary research, I've been looking a bit at "decadent" literature (mostly in 🇬🇧) and trying to understand the concept/phenomenon of decadence as it takes shape in the minds of the "fin de siecle." Most of the critics/prognosticators of decadence come with a counter-decadent commitment to some kind of traditionalism, so I'm interested in thinking about tradition in that (academic) context.

With respect to the contemporary culture, I think we (me, other white, secular Americans) are often too quick to dispose of, or detach from, traditions in the name of "progress." From the perspective of deep history, progress is a really dubious idea. Cultures develop and bloom over long stretches of time and under different conditions, and I think we'd all do well to think comparatively about cultural values. I think the trad revival of the moment is helping to foster this kind of thinking in some corners of the internet. I'm of the opinion, however, that (barring civilizational collapse) we can never simply "go back" to the way things were; that cultures, like organisms, evolve with time, and that addressing the contingencies of today with yesterday's culture (developed organically in its own time) might prevent us from noticing and cultivating opportunities as they arise, developing new culture, etc...

tiger, are you also into anarcho-primativist stuff? I seem to remember you having a primitivist avatar. Also, any other traditionalists you'd recommend outside of Evola?

"The Crisis of the Modern World."- René Guénon

My unpopular opinion is that this forum is actually not about skateboarding.

Coldpizza

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3288 on: August 08, 2020, 12:18:41 PM »
Just finished a bit of a Cormac McCarthy bender and have been looking for something to fill the void. Did Legends of the Fall & A River Runs Through It (all 3 short stories. Revenge was great.) I’m almost done with Travels With Charley by Steinbeck for my second time. Any McCarthyesque suggestions?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

botefdunn

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3289 on: August 09, 2020, 01:21:17 PM »
Just finished a bit of a Cormac McCarthy bender and have been looking for something to fill the void. Did Legends of the Fall & A River Runs Through It (all 3 short stories. Revenge was great.) I’m almost done with Travels With Charley by Steinbeck for my second time. Any McCarthyesque suggestions?

don't talk about books so much, makes you sound like a commie.

Coldpizza

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3290 on: August 13, 2020, 07:20:07 AM »
Expand Quote
Just finished a bit of a Cormac McCarthy bender and have been looking for something to fill the void. Did Legends of the Fall & A River Runs Through It (all 3 short stories. Revenge was great.) I’m almost done with Travels With Charley by Steinbeck for my second time. Any McCarthyesque suggestions?
[close]

don't talk about books so much, makes you sound like a commie.
Well played comrade...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Carrolls Chesthairs

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3291 on: August 13, 2020, 07:36:21 AM »

Enrico Pallazzo

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3292 on: August 14, 2020, 08:47:09 PM »
Just finished a bit of a Cormac McCarthy bender and have been looking for something to fill the void. Did Legends of the Fall & A River Runs Through It (all 3 short stories. Revenge was great.) I’m almost done with Travels With Charley by Steinbeck for my second time. Any McCarthyesque suggestions?

In the Distance by Hernan Diaz definitely evokes aspects of Blood Meridian, really enjoyed both. Think it’s been discussed elsewhere in this thread.

childhood

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3293 on: August 20, 2020, 01:35:14 PM »
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On the SF/fantasy tip, I recently got The Fifth Season/Broken Earth trilogy. Haven't started it yet though.

I don't know if I'm 100% on this author, just based off interviews I've seen, but I'm still looking forward to getting into this:
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/903554b54c0c11aa530aefff6ebeded720200706203826/b4a8cf337eb6aec8424b9ab6f87b1d7520200706203853/a55417

Who else is excited about Charlie Kaufman's book coming out tomorrow?
[close]

I’ve got Chaos on my to-listen list for my audiobook apps so let me know how it is. What makes you iffy about the author?

I'm still only like halfway through Chaos, I got sidetracked with reading Oil! by Upton Sinclair and some other stuff.

Tom O'Neill is clearly an extremely talented and dedicated investigative-journalist (honestly it sounds like he kinda ruined his life by being so focused on this book for so long), I just don't know if I always agree with the conclusions he draws from his research. It's an interesting book for sure though.


Charlie Kaufman's book is on here:
https://b-ok.cc/book/5439886/9d6f4d

Gonna try to finish that, and this:
https://b-ok.cc/book/1196749/2f63d9?dsource=recommend
before his new movie comes out in a couple weeks

oyolar

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3294 on: August 21, 2020, 11:48:25 AM »
I just finished listening to Chaos and felt it was super interesting. I definitely agree with your hesitancy on some of his conclusions, even if I broadly agree that a lot of fishy shit went on with Manson behind the scenes. Wait until the second half of the book - it gets really crazy.

I will say that while he’s a good investigative reporter, he didn’t do a lot of research into how other professions and fields conduct research. I’m not sure if you’re there yet, but he has an entire section where he tries to discredit a few people because of how they did more sociological/anthropological research. But based on his telling (and my own experience in sociological fieldwork), they followed best and standard practices for that field. He seems dismissive of “participant observation” for instance or thinks that sociologists/anthropologists studying subcultures that do illegal things (like take drugs) have an obligation to tell police about it or try to dissuade their subjects from doing illegal things. Or that it’s scandalous that they might take part in these illegal things to gain people’s trust!

Maybe some of the context of their research (like informed consent, financing it, etc.) was sketchy, but the actual fieldwork practices themselves seemed fine. His mild smear campaign left a bad taste in my mouth after that.

Alan

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3295 on: September 01, 2020, 08:33:53 AM »
I think some of you guys who are into politics might be interested in this. Pluto Press has a 90% sale on all ebooks today. Get em while you can.

https://www.plutobooks.com/books/
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botefdunn

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3296 on: September 07, 2020, 05:16:12 PM »
Several people have mentioned John Williams, Stoner on here lately. I just finished his first novel, Nothing but the Night. It was good, reads a bit like a successful reading exercise. It reminded me of Jane Bowles' novella, Two Serious Ladies (which I'd recommend over the Williams as a jazz age pov take on grimy socialite mental anguish).‎

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3297 on: September 08, 2020, 07:26:27 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
On the SF/fantasy tip, I recently got The Fifth Season/Broken Earth trilogy. Haven't started it yet though.

I don't know if I'm 100% on this author, just based off interviews I've seen, but I'm still looking forward to getting into this:
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/903554b54c0c11aa530aefff6ebeded720200706203826/b4a8cf337eb6aec8424b9ab6f87b1d7520200706203853/a55417

Who else is excited about Charlie Kaufman's book coming out tomorrow?
[close]

I’ve got Chaos on my to-listen list for my audiobook apps so let me know how it is. What makes you iffy about the author?
[close]

I'm still only like halfway through Chaos, I got sidetracked with reading Oil! by Upton Sinclair and some other stuff.

Tom O'Neill is clearly an extremely talented and dedicated investigative-journalist (honestly it sounds like he kinda ruined his life by being so focused on this book for so long), I just don't know if I always agree with the conclusions he draws from his research. It's an interesting book for sure though.


Charlie Kaufman's book is on here:
https://b-ok.cc/book/5439886/9d6f4d

Gonna try to finish that, and this:
https://b-ok.cc/book/1196749/2f63d9?dsource=recommend
before his new movie comes out in a couple weeks

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childhood

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3298 on: September 08, 2020, 09:34:46 AM »
Ha, I'm still not sure what I think of the book overall, but there were enough great parts in it, that I'm glad I read it.

Felt like it started to fall apart in the last act, but then by the very end I was fully back into it.
That's basically how I felt about his version of I'm Thinking of Ending Things too.


R.I.P. David Graeber

The anthropologist David Graeber, who has died suddenly aged 59, was remarkably successful in marrying research with direct action. He was influential in the Occupy Wall Street movement and is reputed to have coined the statement: “We are the 99%.”

In 2011, for instance, he wrote a classic work of anthropology, Debt: The First 5,000 Years, in between organising with Occupy Wall Street in New York. In the book Graeber called for a biblical-style “jubilee”– meaning a wiping out of sovereign and consumer debts. “Debt,” he wrote, “is the most efficient means ever created to take relations that are fundamentally based on violence and violent inequality and make them seem right and proper.”
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/06/david-graeber-obituary

Debt: The First 5,000 Years
https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf

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Re: books to read
« Reply #3299 on: September 08, 2020, 10:00:38 AM »
Debt is still on my list of books to read. Has been for years but I’ll probably dive into it soon. I’ve only done his stuff as audiobooks, but they’re fantastic. I highly recommend The Utopia of Rules, which was great and super fast for how dry of a topic it is, and the fantastic Bullshit Jobs.