Indy cross making a comeback?

[munchbox]

Better pic of the full-on Cross shirt.

hey, theres a POC in the background!
and they arent noticeably offended!

the cross is a-ok, theres nothing to see here
i swear you nerds love to overreact

[cum]

could be hiding back there due to being scared of that shirt

[Unkle Fleak]

could be hiding back there due to being scared of that shirt

No, yo he just waiting for me to get there so we can both kick his fucking ass

[Greg Lurkzka]

Light him up fleak

[ChuckRamone]

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Better pic of the full-on Cross shirt.

[close]

hey, theres a POC in the background!
and they arent noticeably offended!

the cross is a-ok, theres nothing to see here
i swear you nerds love to overreact

Is this like the "I'm not racist, I have a black friend" argument?

[Don]

Dependent truck co. I guess

[ToySanta]

Better pic of the full-on Cross shirt.

Now that’s doin it! Indy can bring it back but only on loud, obnoxious, unpopular colors. I wanna see some real commitment by the shits who support.

[munchbox]

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Better pic of the full-on Cross shirt.

[close]

Now that’s doin it! Indy can bring it back but only on loud, obnoxious, unpopular colors. I wanna see some real commitment by the shits who support.

i mean its already yellow
pretty horrible for a t shirt

[Sandwich Marty]

Well there it is

[MOE SYZLAK]

I received word from an NHS connection, that the cross is only back for the 50 year anniversary. It’s going to only be on soft goods and won’t make its way back onto the hard goods.
Still lame to bring it back at all in my opinion, but I’m glad it’s not actually sticking around…or at least I hope…
Aces are better anyway

[BOOF_DAD_420]

I received word from an NHS connection, that the cross is only back for the 50 year anniversary. It’s going to only be on soft goods and won’t make its way back onto the hard goods.
Still lame to bring it back at all in my opinion, but I’m glad it’s not actually sticking around…or at least I hope…
Aces are better anyway

why is this logo hated by so many people??? why was the design 86'd in the first place?

is it because of religious disagreement or because nazi's use a similar cross?

[MOE SYZLAK]

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I received word from an NHS connection, that the cross is only back for the 50 year anniversary. It’s going to only be on soft goods and won’t make its way back onto the hard goods.
Still lame to bring it back at all in my opinion, but I’m glad it’s not actually sticking around…or at least I hope…
Aces are better anyway

[close]

why is this logo hated by so many people??? why was the design 86'd in the first place?

is it because of religious disagreement or because nazi's use a similar cross?

There are 24 pages in this thread you can scroll through for an answer

[swongolianbbq]

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I received word from an NHS connection, that the cross is only back for the 50 year anniversary. It’s going to only be on soft goods and won’t make its way back onto the hard goods.
Still lame to bring it back at all in my opinion, but I’m glad it’s not actually sticking around…or at least I hope…
Aces are better anyway

[close]

why is this logo hated by so many people??? why was the design 86'd in the first place?

is it because of religious disagreement or because nazi's use a similar cross?

[close]

There are 24 pages in this thread you can scroll through for an answer

Yeah c'mon boof dad, you're literally in the thread where we talk about it

[Emo jimmy]

Ironically i have seen way more younger dudes wearing those west coast choppers shirts, must make indy designers feel some type of way

[BOOF_DAD_420]

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I received word from an NHS connection, that the cross is only back for the 50 year anniversary. It’s going to only be on soft goods and won’t make its way back onto the hard goods.
Still lame to bring it back at all in my opinion, but I’m glad it’s not actually sticking around…or at least I hope…
Aces are better anyway

[close]

why is this logo hated by so many people??? why was the design 86'd in the first place?

is it because of religious disagreement or because nazi's use a similar cross?

[close]

There are 24 pages in this thread you can scroll through for an answer

[close]

Yeah c'mon boof dad, you're literally in the thread where we talk about it

I read like 2 pages and I wasn't sure if it was because of nazi insignia resemblance or because the company wanted to step away from religious imagery... like a separation of Church and Skate scenario.

[southkook]

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It's been referenced a few times in this thread, but here is the shirt Indy made with the straight-up Iron Cross with Ribbon.




And here is the WWII era one.

[close]

So they lied when they said it was never about flirting with Nazi imagery to be edgy

Sorry, this symbol is almost a thousand years old (see various Teutonic Knights insignia) and even more recently the Iron Cross was a military decoration awarded to the Prussian army from the 1810s.

Americans unfortunately have a hard-on for race-idolatry so can only make these perceived controversial connotations with otherwise historic symbols.

[Chalupa]

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It's been referenced a few times in this thread, but here is the shirt Indy made with the straight-up Iron Cross with Ribbon.




And here is the WWII era one.

[close]

So they lied when they said it was never about flirting with Nazi imagery to be edgy

[close]

Sorry, this symbol is almost a thousand years old (see various Teutonic Knights insignia) and even more recently the Iron Cross was a military decoration awarded to the Prussian army from the 1810s.

Americans unfortunately have a hard-on for race-idolatry so can only make these perceived controversial connotations with otherwise historic symbols.

Swastikas are even older, so you would be cool with those on clothing and other merch?

[Vexed]

Again, it’s not about Medieval knights, Prussians, Bundeswehr, Ukrainian Army or any use of the symbol other than in surf and skate Nazi circles in the more recent past that gives most the ick here. 

If you want to wear the logo, you’re free to. I and some others might just think you look goofy for it.

[MOE SYZLAK]

Symbols are much like language. The meanings can and often change. It doesn’t matter much what the original symbol meant, what matters is all of the meanings associated with that symbol.
Once a culture adopts a word, symbol, iconography etc. That symbol takes on a new meaning, and that becomes part of the symbol’s identity.

[PolkaV]

Amazing that this is what some people complain about.

Where was the outrage when Indy off-shored manufacturing to China?

[ChuckRamone]

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It's been referenced a few times in this thread, but here is the shirt Indy made with the straight-up Iron Cross with Ribbon.




And here is the WWII era one.

[close]

So they lied when they said it was never about flirting with Nazi imagery to be edgy

[close]

Sorry, this symbol is almost a thousand years old (see various Teutonic Knights insignia) and even more recently the Iron Cross was a military decoration awarded to the Prussian army from the 1810s.

Americans unfortunately have a hard-on for race-idolatry so can only make these perceived controversial connotations with otherwise historic symbols.

You're saying this right under an example of Indy blatantly evoking the Nazi imagery of the cross. Are you a short bus rider?

[Chalupa]

Amazing that this is what some people complain about.

Where was the outrage when Indy off-shored manufacturing to China?

People were pissed off about that, and so were some of the pros. Grosso went to Ace and Bobby Worrest went to Venture. Quality for Indy went down, and defects were common.

Factories manufacture based on specs given by companies. Indy tried to save money by using lower quality materials and manufacturing overseas, while charging the same price.

Ace makes their trucks in China and there aren’t any major issues.

Chinese manufacturing can be superior to American manufacturing, when companies are willing to pay for higher quality materials and for skilled labor.

[SwitchBenihana]

I've ridden Indy on and off since about 1996 and the WC has never been better. My local shop has a very big online presence and they have noted that the number of customers that have had issues with Indy's has also gone done and is the lowest of any brand they carry. No company is going to have zero faults, but they receive more flack because they're the biggest. The Thunder IKPs broke and slipped and AF1 inverted have known bushing issues. My AF1 inverted got a bent axle extremely quick. You don't see them receiving the same amount of shit for having problems. This is shit we literally try to destroy.

Also if you're too lazy to start at page 1 to read the debate just ask ChatGPT to summarize it we don't need to keep going in circles.

[PolkaV]

But did Grosso have a problem with the Indy logo?

Chinese manufacturing can be superior to American manufacturing, when companies are willing to pay for higher quality materials and for skilled labor.

Which defeats the entire purpose of manufacturing in China to begin with.  If an American-based company is willing to spend the extra money and their customer is willing to pay more, they're not going to China for a quality product.  Taiwan produces better castings and forgings than China and they pay more attention to QC, but the customer will pay a little more.  Skateboarding is largely a kids market, with price point being the most important consideration.

It's not just about manufacturing quality or loss of American jobs though.  Some peoples feelings get hurt by a company logo, which symbolizes some sort of oppression and/or hatred to them, real or imagined.  Are the same people complaining that the product is manufactured in a country that thrives on oppression and is responsible for more politically-motivated executions in the past century than any other country?

Iron cross Irony cross

[Chalupa]

Are the same people complaining that the product is manufactured in a country that thrives on oppression and is responsible for more politically-motivated executions in the past century than any other country?

You have no problems with ICE executing US citizens or cops shooting black people in the back of the head. You’ll talk about Tiananmen Square while ignoring Kent State. Your country is run by pedophiliac billionaires that murder children for fun. Fuck off with your moral high ground.

[Sandwich Marty]

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Are the same people complaining that the product is manufactured in a country that thrives on oppression and is responsible for more politically-motivated executions in the past century than any other country?

[close]

You have no problems with ICE executing US citizens or cops shooting black people in the back of the head. You’ll talk about Tiananmen Square while ignoring Kent State. Your country is run by pedophiliac billionaires that murder children for fun. Fuck off with your moral high ground.

Dipshits like buddy Mcfuckface up there aren’t even feigning moral high ground. They’re all just a bunch of uneducated contrarian trolls at best. No use even engaging with them

[ChuckRamone]

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Are the same people complaining that the product is manufactured in a country that thrives on oppression and is responsible for more politically-motivated executions in the past century than any other country?

[close]

You have no problems with ICE executing US citizens or cops shooting black people in the back of the head. You’ll talk about Tiananmen Square while ignoring Kent State. Your country is run by pedophiliac billionaires that murder children for fun. Fuck off with your moral high ground.

Not to mention one of America's biggest sources of wealth and resources is manufacturing wars and invading other countries. At least China is not dropping bombs on other countries for profit.

[GershonSweaty]

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It's been referenced a few times in this thread, but here is the shirt Indy made with the straight-up Iron Cross with Ribbon.




And here is the WWII era one.

[close]

So they lied when they said it was never about flirting with Nazi imagery to be edgy

[close]

Sorry, this symbol is almost a thousand years old (see various Teutonic Knights insignia) and even more recently the Iron Cross was a military decoration awarded to the Prussian army from the 1810s.

Americans unfortunately have a hard-on for race-idolatry so can only make these perceived controversial connotations with otherwise historic symbols.

I think it’s really important to remeber symbols operate on objective and subjective levels. So like objectivel any symbol may have an origin tied to a specific historical moment, and then subjectively symbols take on additional layers of meaning through how they are used and experienced over time.
When a symbol has been repeatedly used to promote hate it then inevitably becomes part of its meaning. Even if the original intent was different.

Symbols carry societal memory!

Prime example I don’t see a lot of skate brands pushing red caps.

[Im-BLuE]

 I walk around the Jewish part of town with my swastika shirt on seething for comments so I can school them on its Buddhist origins.

[Sandwich Marty]

I walk around the Jewish part of town with my swastika shirt on seething for comments so I can school them on its Buddhist origins.

The Nazis used an inverse swastika. Hitler was obsessed with the dark side of the occult. But I’m guessing you didn’t know or care about that when you bought your swastika shirt.