Ace trucks

[Xen]

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So...
Maybe some of the heads who have experience machining metals can address this.
Regarding the aftermarket kingpin re-threader that can be purchased as part of a set, along w/ the axle re-threading die: after a kingpin has been ground down a bit & the top is shaved into a wedge, can you even employ/utilize the re-threader in that situation? If the die can only "catch" the edge of the thread that is highest/closest to the axle, will it be able to chase the threads?
I get that a mushroomed off axle-end can be touched with a file & the chased, but the kingpins get scraped down at a bit of an angle, comparatively.
Anybody have any knowledge 'bout that? Maybe wanna share?

[close]

Yeah, I don't really get the point of the re-threading tool. If it's significantly damaged and you can only access it from one side, you will typically need split-rethreading tool. The included tool is better than nothing, but handing skaters a thread chasing tool with no cutting oil, no lever, and presumably no experience operating such a tool just means you're going to end up with a lot of cross-threaded (and still equally useless) axles.

I ate shit recently due to my front hanger falling off during a manual with a speed check (oddly enough I had just adjusted one truck and then went to check the other...and due to riding a TT I didn't even think to check 'to check' I was checking the same truck...which I did)...kingping went straight into the sidewalk and got fucked; having picked up the ACE tool for this reason, I can it works fine but I don't think it's going to do anything the scenario mentioned, that's just new kingpin/Bplate/truck time.

[Slugboi22]

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Here’s the pivot cup on the front truck of my AF1 66s I bought yesterday after about two hours of mellow slappies. Pivot cup at the back truck had squirted out quite a blob of black grease. Also the back truck started clicking at some point but it seemed to mellow out a bit as I skated more.

[close]

I had the exact same thing happen, bought some 55s and the front trucks pivot cup basically split in half instantly after one stair sesh, and the back one looks like there is grease coming out of it. My front truck was also making a loud clicking sound anytime I turned, but seems to be getting better. Emailed Ace this morning and they are sending replacement pivot cups, so I will see how that goes. Had two pairs of classics in the past and never had any issues.

it very well could be the actual seat the cup is in as well. i had my regular stock ones as well as riptides break on me in a very short amount of time. I would recommend trying to just get new base plates.

[Murge]

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Here’s the pivot cup on the front truck of my AF1 66s I bought yesterday after about two hours of mellow slappies. Pivot cup at the back truck had squirted out quite a blob of black grease. Also the back truck started clicking at some point but it seemed to mellow out a bit as I skated more.

[close]

I had the exact same thing happen, bought some 55s and the front trucks pivot cup basically split in half instantly after one stair sesh, and the back one looks like there is grease coming out of it. My front truck was also making a loud clicking sound anytime I turned, but seems to be getting better. Emailed Ace this morning and they are sending replacement pivot cups, so I will see how that goes. Had two pairs of classics in the past and never had any issues.

[close]

it very well could be the actual seat the cup is in as well. i had my regular stick ones as well as riptides break on my in a very short amount of time. I would recommend trying to just get new base plates.

I’m thinking it’s something with where the pivot cup sits or the geo. Because how weird is it that at this point everyone’s pivot cup that busted  (mine included ) is all just the front truck. Like we all just got one bad pivot in our set of trucks and all just so happen to use the bad one as the front? Or there’s an issue with the geo and pressure on the front truck we all are doing that busts the pivot. 

[anon]

I’m thinking it’s something with where the pivot cup sits or the geo. Because how weird is it that at this point everyone’s pivot cup that busted  (mine included ) is all just the front truck. Like we all just got one bad pivot in our set of trucks and all just so happen to use the bad one as the front? Or there’s an issue with the geo and pressure on the front truck we all are doing that busts the pivot.

more stress is incurred on the front truck during steering than the back. if you were to skate your board backwards, the other pivot cup would soon go bye-bye as well
it's got to be a geometry issue, though. one that i was hoping they'd fix in the af1's. am big disappoint :'(
why, ace?
WHY?

[Frank and Fred]

The price of  'the turn.'

I never had pivot cups prematurely blow out in the classics.

But when I have worn out pivot cups in any truck, I kind of like that fucked up, loose rattle.

[Xen]

The price of  'the turn.'

Agree on that...but while pivot cup costs are nothing cost-wise to keep replacing to get 'the turn' they shouldn't be blowing out in the first week (depending on how much you skate) and certainly not the first few fucking sessions.

If they were prototyping with pros/pilots don't you think it would have cropped up once or twice?

Fucking pivotgate.

[manysnakes]

So what I am hearing is that maybe Independent Trucks had a reason to move away from their Stage III geometry and to decide not to reintroduce it at the Tershy's request?

[dancing]

has me thinking about the potential for a well designed dual-durometer pivot cup with some kind of hard plastic reinforcement, you'd have to do it right though because I imagine that a more complicated design like that could introduce new pathways for failure

[palelight]

So what I am hearing is that maybe Independent Trucks had a reason to move away from their Stage III geometry and to decide not to reintroduce it at the Tershy's request?

Wouldn't the slight WB extension plant them firmly in Stage 7/8 territory? My 8's sit right between Classics and Stage 11's as far as WB goes. And I never remember the pivot cups blowing out back then (only the axles slipping like it was a selling point).

[Xen]

has me thinking about the potential for a well designed dual-durometer pivot cup with some kind of hard plastic reinforcement, you'd have to do it right though because I imagine that a more complicated design like that could introduce new pathways for failure

Hard on the outside, soft inner? probably tricky to do that with as much direct pain pivot cups get (tho they do it with wheels).

Coming from 159 Forged Hollow and Tensor ATG Maglights, I set these ACE 55s up on and 8.5 and fuck me the board is heavy/tankish.

[manysnakes]

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So what I am hearing is that maybe Independent Trucks had a reason to move away from their Stage III geometry and to decide not to reintroduce it at the Tershy's request?

[close]

Wouldn't the slight WB extension plant them firmly in Stage 7/8 territory? My 8's sit right between Classics and Stage 11's as far as WB goes. And I never remember the pivot cups blowing out back then (only the axles slipping like it was a selling point).

No idea. I just know that Ace were based on Stage III Indys. Don't know if the Classics are an exact clone of that model, or if the new ones mimic Stage VII or VIII.

[palelight]

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So what I am hearing is that maybe Independent Trucks had a reason to move away from their Stage III geometry and to decide not to reintroduce it at the Tershy's request?

[close]

Wouldn't the slight WB extension plant them firmly in Stage 7/8 territory? My 8's sit right between Classics and Stage 11's as far as WB goes. And I never remember the pivot cups blowing out back then (only the axles slipping like it was a selling point).

[close]

No idea. I just know that Ace were based on Stage III Indys. Don't know if the Classics are an exact clone of that model, or if the new ones mimic Stage VII or VIII.

Fair enough. Worth noting that original Theeve's (the skinny hanger) used Ace baseplates and didn't have issues with the cups. They did blow out bushings pretty terribly, but that's a different story. I'm curious if the pivot issue is less a geo thing and more consistently using way too soft materials to maintain "the turn." DLX, and pre-China NHS use way harder pivot material than the Classics, and given the AF1 pivots can be mushed together with your fingers, I wouldn't see it improving the issue.

[anon]

it's a geometry issue. i've seen reports of and have experienced riptides tearing in the classics

[palelight]

Someone DM Rick Blackhart (like a man) and see why Indy dropped the stage III geo.

Jokes aside, that's a bummer if the geometry is causing it, not an easily rectified thing. Never had issue with the pivots in my Classics, but I know that problem existed there too.

[dancing]

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has me thinking about the potential for a well designed dual-durometer pivot cup with some kind of hard plastic reinforcement, you'd have to do it right though because I imagine that a more complicated design like that could introduce new pathways for failure

[close]

Hard on the outside, soft inner? probably tricky to do that with as much direct pain pivot cups get (tho they do it with wheels).

Coming from 159 Forged Hollow and Tensor ATG Maglights, I set these ACE 55s up on and 8.5 and fuck me the board is heavy/tankish.

Yeah, I bet it's possible with the right design and materials. Might just end up turning to mush inside the hard plastic reinforcement the same way it does in the pivot cup divot, though. If the reinforcement was urethane, but harder, it might have enough give to keep the ride quality of the soft cups as well as stopping them from failing like they seem to be inclined to do with this current design.

[furieruzu]

I still haven't heard back from Ace regarding the pivot cup issue. Used the contact form on their site twice. This week I've been breaking-in my 33's. Front pivot is beginning to mush out like others here, at least it didn't split like the one on my 44's. Also, the back truck has developed this annoyingly loud clicking sound which I believe to be the kingpin either being loose or not seated correctly or something. Either way, I'm starting to have buyer's remorse. If I had known I was going to have to automatically swap out the garbage pivots for Riptide's and have such enhanced wheel-bite then I'd have just stuck with Thunder, which I find a lot more stable than the AF1's. The more I use them the more I notice every aspect of my skating, other than carving while cruising seeming to suffer. I'm going to stick with them for awhile but if I can't get used to them or get them dialed-in to how I like then I'll be offloading these to some young kids who can recover from wheel-bite bails much quicker than I can.

[mzlzzz]

the back truck has developed this annoyingly loud clicking sound which I believe to be the kingpin either being loose or not seated correctly or something.

The clicking, in my experience, is the washer rocking on the kingpin. The washer seams to be skipping across the threads on the kingpin. I think this can be fixed with a round file to ease the inside edges of the washer hole. I tested this theory, sort of, by waxing the king pin and washer when I reassembled mine, and it went away. It did come back in the next session, but I didn’t notice it after warming up.

[Maxi205]

I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[Mbrimson88]

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the back truck has developed this annoyingly loud clicking sound which I believe to be the kingpin either being loose or not seated correctly or something.

[close]

The clicking, in my experience, is the washer rocking on the kingpin. The washer seams to be skipping across the threads on the kingpin. I think this can be fixed with a round file to ease the inside edges of the washer hole. I tested this theory, sort of, by waxing the king pin and washer when I reassembled mine, and it went away. It did come back in the next session, but I didn’t notice it after warming up.

As said, yes it is usually the metal washers moving against the kingpin, more often than not being the point between the bottom washer and baseplate, or the top washer and kingpin nut.

Things I have seen done with what seemed like permanent success include putting tape round the kingpin up to the point just under where the nut goes on and putting something on the washers / between washers and baseplate / kingpin nut, either tape or even something else, but the tape around the kingpin stops all that movement better than anything else.

After changing over bushings and metal washers it can sometimes come or go a lot more, which is curious, but can also happen on brand new trucks too, often depending on how much the nut is tightened down, as it is the force of turning that puts pressure on the bushings and nut to the point it moves ever so slightly, causing the click sound from side to side.

[Paperclip20]

I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

[Kevve]

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the back truck has developed this annoyingly loud clicking sound which I believe to be the kingpin either being loose or not seated correctly or something.

[close]

The clicking, in my experience, is the washer rocking on the kingpin. The washer seams to be skipping across the threads on the kingpin. I think this can be fixed with a round file to ease the inside edges of the washer hole. I tested this theory, sort of, by waxing the king pin and washer when I reassembled mine, and it went away. It did come back in the next session, but I didn’t notice it after warming up.

[close]

As said, yes it is usually the metal washers moving against the kingpin, more often than not being the point between the bottom washer and baseplate, or the top washer and kingpin nut.

Things I have seen done with what seemed like permanent success include putting tape round the kingpin up to the point just under where the nut goes on and putting something on the washers / between washers and baseplate / kingpin nut, either tape or even something else, but the tape around the kingpin stops all that movement better than anything else.

After changing over bushings and metal washers it can sometimes come or go a lot more, which is curious, but can also happen on brand new trucks too, often depending on how much the nut is tightened down, as it is the force of turning that puts pressure on the bushings and nut to the point it moves ever so slightly, causing the click sound from side to side.

Seems like the clicking is just a new truck issue? If not, a little tightning of the kingpin and or the tape thing sounds like the sulotion. Also Ace & thunder seems to be the polar opposites in geo so i can Imagine its a big change coming from thunder.

Im so stoked to setup my af1s on the cruiser. I've only ridden the classics a handfull of times but boy do they turn good.

How do you guys go about breaking them in? I remember reading about the classics that its best to ride them at stock tightness for some time before tightning it down.

[Frank and Fred]

Clicking should go away. I've had it with most of my Classics (and other brand trucks). Lasted a few sessions at most.

[Murge]

@furieruzu  try filling out the form again. I filled it out 3 different times and the last time I got a reply. And the guy was super nice that emailed me and got my pivot cups yesterday.

[Roisto]

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I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[close]

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

I did pretty much 70% frontside slappies on curbs until mine blew out. I’ve also been told that I do my frontside slappies with “way too much force”.

I’ve also blown out pivot cup bushings in Ace classics like 4+ times before the trucks are done. Still, this is a new record for me for the pivot cup bushings to start looking like shit.

[Wafools]

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I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[close]

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

Oh yeah. I’m about 160lbs and I blew out my pivot cups in 20 min skating curbs and went straight back to indys.

[Bigwheelbite]

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the back truck has developed this annoyingly loud clicking sound which I believe to be the kingpin either being loose or not seated correctly or something.

[close]

The clicking, in my experience, is the washer rocking on the kingpin. The washer seams to be skipping across the threads on the kingpin. I think this can be fixed with a round file to ease the inside edges of the washer hole. I tested this theory, sort of, by waxing the king pin and washer when I reassembled mine, and it went away. It did come back in the next session, but I didn’t notice it after warming up.

[close]

As said, yes it is usually the metal washers moving against the kingpin, more often than not being the point between the bottom washer and baseplate, or the top washer and kingpin nut.

Things I have seen done with what seemed like permanent success include putting tape round the kingpin up to the point just under where the nut goes on and putting something on the washers / between washers and baseplate / kingpin nut, either tape or even something else, but the tape around the kingpin stops all that movement better than anything else.

After changing over bushings and metal washers it can sometimes come or go a lot more, which is curious, but can also happen on brand new trucks too, often depending on how much the nut is tightened down, as it is the force of turning that puts pressure on the bushings and nut to the point it moves ever so slightly, causing the click sound from side to side.

[close]

Seems like the clicking is just a new truck issue? If not, a little tightning of the kingpin and or the tape thing sounds like the sulotion. Also Ace & thunder seems to be the polar opposites in geo so i can Imagine its a big change coming from thunder.

Im so stoked to setup my af1s on the cruiser. I've only ridden the classics a handfull of times but boy do they turn good.

How do you guys go about breaking them in? I remember reading about the classics that its best to ride them at stock tightness for some time before tightning it down.

That clicking sounds like its the top bushing popping out from under which is a common fault on the classics. Just take the top washer off and swap it for a bones one or without a washer. Problem solved.

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I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[close]

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

[close]

Oh yeah. I’m about 160lbs and I blew out my pivot cups in 20 min skating curbs and went straight back to indys.

Why? Just stick some riptide pivot cups in and voila. No brainer...


 

[Wafools]

 

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I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[close]

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

[close]

Oh yeah. I’m about 160lbs and I blew out my pivot cups in 20 min skating curbs and went straight back to indys.

Why? Just stick some riptide pivot cups in and voila. No brainer...
[/quote]

I dunno. I feel like spending like $20 on pivot cups seems excessive.
Like I blow out pivot cups on the regular aces every week to 2 weeks so by having the AF1s blow out I’m just not into it. I don’t want to have to tinker and mess with my trucks every other week.
I think for me personally it’s just how I skate and the geometry of the truck with ace just puts a lot of stress on the cups.

[Urtripping]

Anyone ever skated Aces without the bottom washer? Want to have them just over the edge of wobbly/rattling. Riding Af1's with the new bushings and all that.

[sweet son of a bitch]

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I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[close]

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

[close]

Oh yeah. I’m about 160lbs and I blew out my pivot cups in 20 min skating curbs and went straight back to indys.

[close]

Why? Just stick some riptide pivot cups in and voila. No brainer...

I dunno. I feel like spending like $20 on pivot cups seems excessive.
Like I blow out pivot cups on the regular aces every week to 2 weeks so by having the AF1s blow out I’m just not into it. I don’t want to have to tinker and mess with my trucks every other week.
I think for me personally it’s just how I skate and the geometry of the truck with ace just puts a lot of stress on the cups.
[/quote]
That’s what you get for breaking the rules of putting new trucks on old board . You haven’t skated ace in over a year . You been riding venture / Indy .

[Paperclip20]

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I checked the pivot cups of my af 1's today and after about 20-25 hours of allround skating they are in perfect condition. Maybe I had just luck with my set or it is because of the fact that I'm build like a greyhound and weigh around 135 lbs. I run them a little bit looser than stock tightness (nut sits flush with kingpin)

[close]

I run mine stock(the kingpin just peeking above the nut) and weigh about 180-185 and mine are in great shape also. Really feel bad for the guys with theirs getting fucked up though. I've put in about 20 hours on mine mainly street with bits of transition and curbs.

Are any of you guys blowing yours out skating mainly curbs? Not that that's an excuse for them blowing out so quickly, just curious.

[close]

Oh yeah. I’m about 160lbs and I blew out my pivot cups in 20 min skating curbs and went straight back to indys.

Makes me wonder if the new pivot cups need some time to break in similar to bushings. My first day on them was some light ledge skating and flatground. No curbs until I probably had 4 sessions on them