Wheels Thread

[Xen]

What brands are made by creative/mearthane?

Just about any wheel brand that says 'Made in the USA' that isn't Acid/NFG/Bones/Spit..etc., and assume all 'team' wheels unless specified are China-made.

[dated info] found on page 3 of this thread...

https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=82118.msg2273002#msg2273002

[Creachteach]

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WHAT is the deal with flip flop wheels??
Do any of you ride combo wheel shapes, I.E. asymmetrical ones like Santa Cruz Vomits or OJ Mini combos?

If yes, which way do you use them, and why?
Like, conical side facing inwards for better lock-in on grinds, or rounded side inwards for hanging up less?
Which way do the pros run theirs?

Also most of my local skateparks are plywood, Masonite and skatelite. Think kinda slippery dusty stuff, and I have a fear of slipping out, which duro should I get?
OJs only come in 101a and except for the Gregson 56mm 97a. Slime Balls come in 97 and 99, right?

Currently on Spit F4 57mm Radials in 99a. I haven’t really given them the full test yet, because time. Some people claim them to be very slippery, and others perfect, what’s the verdict?

[close]

They're designed to be mounted with the square side in for better lock ins. IIRC they were pretty much a response to spits lock in shape

Thanks man 
I thought so too, but i thought the manufacturer had an idea with placing the graphics on the square side, as many wheels are designed for graphics to face out, I thought that was the main way to use them.
I thought the Slime balls and OJ combo shape were OG wheel shapes from way back when?

I think a lot of thoughts, just a thought.

[realbasedgod112]

Currently riding a set of 101a Rictas. Was riding 99 F4s before.

Curious how Bones 103a STF, Spitfire 101a and OJ Elite 101 compare now.

i've got the OJ 101s set up on my glass park setup right now, so obviously they see less use but they're still nice. i was soured a bit at first as i flatspotted them with relative ease on a park that had been concreted a fair while ago (granted i was intentionally trying to, in order to see if they would hold up).
despite this, they feel really nice on those smoother parks. never tried spitfire so i can't speak on that matter, but on those parks that range from smooth-glassy they perform well compared to stf's. i don't slide out ever, and they feel easy to control in powerslides. if i was being more sceptical i would say how they take that tiny bit more effort (that FEELS like a mountain compared to the relative molehill it is) to break into a slide.

[jimgrude]

Longboards wheel manufacturers been doing it for years, Autobahn did it years ago (83B outer durometer w/ 97A core, really good wheel for back then)), never really caught on: https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=82118.msg3821869#msg3821869.

The Autobahn dual duro ones were 101A core with 97A outer, so the opposite of what OJ's trying.

[yourbreakfsat]

Dual durometers have been a thing for a long time, but it's always been softer outer with harder core. No idea what effects happen when reversing the durometer positions, so this looks interesting. The only thing I can think of is that it'll reduce vibration when pushing through crappy ground. Time will tell.

[Mbrimson88]

WHAT is the deal with flip flop wheels??
Do any of you ride combo wheel shapes, I.E. asymmetrical ones like Santa Cruz Vomits or OJ Mini combos?

If yes, which way do you use them, and why?
Like, conical side facing inwards for better lock-in on grinds, or rounded side inwards for hanging up less?
Which way do the pros run theirs?

Also most of my local skateparks are plywood, Masonite and skatelite. Think kinda slippery dusty stuff, and I have a fear of slipping out, which duro should I get?
OJs only come in 101a and except for the Gregson 56mm 97a. Slime Balls come in 97 and 99, right?

Currently on Spit F4 57mm Radials in 99a. I haven’t really given them the full test yet, because time. Some people claim them to be very slippery, and others perfect, what’s the verdict?

I had meant to reply to this a while back but got distracted.


At least you pretty much have the info re asymmetric shaped wheels, but some people do like to ride them in and some out, most the normal way, as said, but they do give you the option, mini combo = a combination of two wheel shapes so you can choose either way depending on what you want or how wide your wheel to truck to deck is and other factors.


As for the surfaces of different ramps, as well as how people skate, there can be so many variables between what might be considered the best wheels for any given place.  Some people like to have that slip and slide feel, whereas others prefer NO slide unless they want it to slide, so you can easily go from 101 / 99 down to 90 duro and everything in between for the same ramp, depending on who is skating it and what they prefer.

Try the normal wheels you have (with caution) and if they are extremely slippery, then I would say go down to a lower duro than 97, but if you just wanted a touch more grip, then the 97s should be good.

The different wheel brands with different formulas will skate differently as well, but for the most part the 97s from Spitfire and Slimeballs will work well on moderately slippery ramps, but will still feel too hard on very slippery ramp surfaces.

Lower duros than that I found that the Mini Logo 95 duro or even the 90 duro were really good, kept speed and didn't slip out on the skatelite / slippery wood / other surfaces around here, whereas some other 95 duro wheels didn't keep grip on the slippery stuff and some other 90 duro wheels just ended up being very slow to roll over those surfaces, when compared to the normal harder wheels.

[Xen]

Expand Quote

Longboards wheel manufacturers been doing it for years, Autobahn did it years ago (83B outer durometer w/ 97A core, really good wheel for back then)), never really caught on: https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=82118.msg3821869#msg3821869.

[close]

The Autobahn dual duro ones were 101A core with 97A outer, so the opposite of what OJ's trying.

Autobahn Dual Duro Ultra 97a/100a (inner/outer) (they also came in 97a/97a) - clear urethane core

Autobahn ABX Dual Duro 83B/97A (inner/outer) - black core/plastic

[munchbox]

are any pals getting their hands on the ojs early (a la dragons)
more interested in these than any of the powell wheels

[Creachteach]

Expand Quote

WHAT is the deal with flip flop wheels??
Do any of you ride combo wheel shapes, I.E. asymmetrical ones like Santa Cruz Vomits or OJ Mini combos?

If yes, which way do you use them, and why?
Like, conical side facing inwards for better lock-in on grinds, or rounded side inwards for hanging up less?
Which way do the pros run theirs?

Also most of my local skateparks are plywood, Masonite and skatelite. Think kinda slippery dusty stuff, and I have a fear of slipping out, which duro should I get?
OJs only come in 101a and except for the Gregson 56mm 97a. Slime Balls come in 97 and 99, right?

Currently on Spit F4 57mm Radials in 99a. I haven’t really given them the full test yet, because time. Some people claim them to be very slippery, and others perfect, what’s the verdict?

[close]

I had meant to reply to this a while back but got distracted.


At least you pretty much have the info re asymmetric shaped wheels, but some people do like to ride them in and some out, most the normal way, as said, but they do give you the option, mini combo = a combination of two wheel shapes so you can choose either way depending on what you want or how wide your wheel to truck to deck is and other factors.


As for the surfaces of different ramps, as well as how people skate, there can be so many variables between what might be considered the best wheels for any given place.  Some people like to have that slip and slide feel, whereas others prefer NO slide unless they want it to slide, so you can easily go from 101 / 99 down to 90 duro and everything in between for the same ramp, depending on who is skating it and what they prefer.

Try the normal wheels you have (with caution) and if they are extremely slippery, then I would say go down to a lower duro than 97, but if you just wanted a touch more grip, then the 97s should be good.

The different wheel brands with different formulas will skate differently as well, but for the most part the 97s from Spitfire and Slimeballs will work well on moderately slippery ramps, but will still feel too hard on very slippery ramp surfaces.

Lower duros than that I found that the Mini Logo 95 duro or even the 90 duro were really good, kept speed and didn't slip out on the skatelite / slippery wood / other surfaces around here, whereas some other 95 duro wheels didn't keep grip on the slippery stuff and some other 90 duro wheels just ended up being very slow to roll over those surfaces, when compared to the normal harder wheels.

This was really helpful!
I think my next set of wheels are gonna be either the stupid dragon wheels, or the OJ/Slime balls 97a.
I think the shape, with the radial side outwards and the conical on the inside might be really good for sliding and locking into ledges and rails.
My only skatepark is strictly wooden stuff. In the street area it has concrete floor between obstacles, but I want to learn mini-ramp and smaller transition. I’m 35, and just started again, was never good as a teen though. I’m working up the courage to do my first drop in, and really don’t want to introduce my teeth to metal coping.

[LebowskisRug]

I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

[FuzzGNU]

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

[huggernaut]

I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

Recently put on a set of f4 99a classics and all I could think was “are we all just fucking overthinking it?”

[rocklobster]

Expand Quote

I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

[close]

Recently put on a set of f4 99a classics and all I could think was “are we all just fucking overthinking it?”

[Xen]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

[close]

Recently put on a set of f4 99a classics and all I could think was “are we all just fucking overthinking it?”

[close]

Been on the 93 dragons since I got them. Last night's session I went with spit 99a conicals...the results....no real difference except for lots more vibration on some of the rougher spots...they also felt really hard and glassy in comparison.

I did miss the smooth ride of the dragons.

[huggernaut]

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I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

[close]

Recently put on a set of f4 99a classics and all I could think was “are we all just fucking overthinking it?”

[close]

[close]

Been on the 93 dragons since I got them. Last night's session I went with spit 99a conicals...the results....no real difference except for lots more vibration on some of the rougher spots...they also felt really hard and glassy in comparison.

I did miss the smooth ride of the dragons.

To be clear the next session I threw dragons on and was like “oh…my old bones feel so good”

[overwaxed]

I had a bearing slip mid slappy on a 54mm dragon and slammed harder than I have in years and bruised a few ribs - so I’m officially off that kool aid

Anyone tried OJ nomads or 97a oj/slimeballs? Also I can only ever skate odd numbered sizes - sounds crazy but every bad fall/injury has been on even numbered wheels.

[LebowskisRug]

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I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

[close]

Recently put on a set of f4 99a classics and all I could think was “are we all just fucking overthinking it?”

[close]

Don't get me wrong it totally makes sense to have different wheels if your spots differ that much. I think if I hadn't skated in years and got back into it that I wouldn't start with a specialized wheel necessarily or at least one designed to handle rough spots when I'm skating a nice wooden park.

[Creachteach]

I don't know why you'd want Dragons or a soft wheel for that kind of park unless the wood is more slick than Skatelite. Dragons drag a bit on metal coping too. Wouldn't a big standard formula work just fine? Personally when I came back to skating I started on F4 99 since they were a middle ground hard wheel and for the most part have been fine. I was skating a park like you described and found the 103a wheels too slick for me (they were super fast tho) and 95 too soft.

I don’t know either, I am the noob. 99a F4 is what I have, and now I’ve been rolling around in there for a while, and can tell that the slide isn’t as bad as I feared. I’m coming up to 99a from a softer wheel, so for me it’s scary. I’m probably way overthinking skateboarding.
Can’t find current pictures of the mini I skate the most, but here’s one of the street area and one of the dual bowls.

[scab]

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

I have an ancient set of SPFs and it never occurred to me to use them in indoor parks since they're 81B duro. I always thought the "park" referred to concrete parks (where they work like a charm), but I just checked and they explicitly say the formula offers firmer grip on slick surfaces.

https://bones.com/why/skatepark-formula/

I'm gonna give them a go on my next trip to an indoor park with wooden ramps and report back.

[Creachteach]

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

I honestly thought the SPF were specifically for concrete parks, and they’re like super hard at 81b and 84b, so it seems counter intuitive.

The board I’ve setup is setup towards that indoor “park”, as it is just a 3 minute walk from my house. I’m just a noob, and I got advised to get the 99a F4s by a local dude, and so far I’m not ready to give up on them, as they seem to be everyone’s favourite formula. It’s probably just me being a chickenshit kook.

[tzhangdox]

Expand Quote

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

[close]

I honestly thought the SPF were specifically for concrete parks, and they’re like super hard at 81b and 84b, so it seems counter intuitive.

The board I’ve setup is setup towards that indoor “park”, as it is just a 3 minute walk from my house. I’m just a noob, and I got advised to get the 99a F4s by a local dude, and so far I’m not ready to give up on them, as they seem to be everyone’s favourite formula. It’s probably just me being a chickenshit kook.

Yeah 99a formula fours should be just fine on that kinda surface you'll get used to it. Literally every single skater I know in the real world rides f4 99as, some slightly prefer 101 (or accidentally get them because they don't know better but then skate them just fine). Don't think about it too much.

[dstrytruitt]

Expand Quote

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

[close]

I have an ancient set of SPFs and it never occurred to me to use them in indoor parks since they're 81B duro. I always thought the "park" referred to concrete parks (where they work like a charm), but I just checked and they explicitly say the formula offers firmer grip on slick surfaces.

https://bones.com/why/skatepark-formula/

I'm gonna give them a go on my next trip to an indoor park with wooden ramps and report back.

I have some SPFs in my bag for skating slick parks, be they newer concrete or Masonite/skatelite. I recently forgot to switch out from f4 I like to skate at an older concrete park and ate shit a handful of times just slipping out trying to haul ass through some corners in the big flow bowl but once I switched to the spf I didn’t fall the rest of the day.

[Mbrimson88]

Expand Quote

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

[close]

I honestly thought the SPF were specifically for concrete parks, and they’re like super hard at 81b and 84b, so it seems counter intuitive.

The board I’ve setup is setup towards that indoor “park”, as it is just a 3 minute walk from my house. I’m just a noob, and I got advised to get the 99a F4s by a local dude, and so far I’m not ready to give up on them, as they seem to be everyone’s favourite formula. It’s probably just me being a chickenshit kook.

The most simple way to break it down is this:


Yes most people skate normal 99 duro wheels (Spitfire Formula Four in particular but Bones in any formula as well - STF, SPF or other) on everything, including myself and I find they work great on the indoor street area too, as I would not want soft wheels when trying slide tricks on the ledges as they grip and stop.

Yes many of the older dudes or those with less balance slam hard on the mini ramp and bowl at my indoor park because they are not used to how slick the surface really is compared to a more grippy concrete surface or when they are skating in the street area on concrete floor.

This is why quite a number of those type of people will set up a board with softer wheels to ride on those ramps, or skate that for everything, as it is just way less likely to slip out and end in breaking something for them, as per a board I have specifically set up to skate on the slippery ramps with Spitfire 92 duro softer wheels, which feels just like normal 99 duro wheels on raw concrete in the outdoor section of my park.

It is not far off a cruiser in the overall feel of it, but it gives me way more confidence to skate the ramp and bowl that I know I would slip out on with normal 99 duro wheels.

As for anyone else who is not used to soft grippy wheels, they find the thing a beast, but no one has ever slipped out on it and I use it for beginners who are learning a lot on the ramps too as it still rolls fast, but will not have that icy feel to it that normal wheels do.


I do still skate the ramp / bowl quite often on my normal boards just as a warm up or to see how well I mopped the ramps, for which the surface is quite fast and not overly slippery when just having a few easy runs, but I only push it a bit to feel how much they slide, which is more than they grip, that's for sure.

As for your own local indoor park, if someone is cleaning the surfaces regularly and doing a good job, then it should be way less slippery, but if there is a dust build up, especially in certain areas, those can be like black ice on normal wheels and I saw that a lot at another indoor park I used to work at, people slipping out all the time on those slick ramps.

[scab]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

[close]

I have an ancient set of SPFs and it never occurred to me to use them in indoor parks since they're 81B duro. I always thought the "park" referred to concrete parks (where they work like a charm), but I just checked and they explicitly say the formula offers firmer grip on slick surfaces.

https://bones.com/why/skatepark-formula/

I'm gonna give them a go on my next trip to an indoor park with wooden ramps and report back.

[close]

I have some SPFs in my bag for skating slick parks, be they newer concrete or Masonite/skatelite. I recently forgot to switch out from f4 I like to skate at an older concrete park and ate shit a handful of times just slipping out trying to haul ass through some corners in the big flow bowl but once I switched to the spf I didn’t fall the rest of the day.

Thanks for the input, I'll definitely give them a shot. My indoor park has decades-old wooden ramps and looks like no one ever dusts it, so I resorted to Dragons for riding it. I'm noticeably slower on them, but that's still better than potentially eating shit if I don't land exactly bolts (which is pretty much every try). If the SPFs offer enough grip and keep their speed, I'm set for the winter.

[Creachteach]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

[close]

I honestly thought the SPF were specifically for concrete parks, and they’re like super hard at 81b and 84b, so it seems counter intuitive.

The board I’ve setup is setup towards that indoor “park”, as it is just a 3 minute walk from my house. I’m just a noob, and I got advised to get the 99a F4s by a local dude, and so far I’m not ready to give up on them, as they seem to be everyone’s favourite formula. It’s probably just me being a chickenshit kook.

[close]

The most simple way to break it down is this:


Yes most people skate normal 99 duro wheels (Spitfire Formula Four in particular but Bones in any formula as well - STF, SPF or other) on everything, including myself and I find they work great on the indoor street area too, as I would not want soft wheels when trying slide tricks on the ledges as they grip and stop.

Yes many of the older dudes or those with less balance slam hard on the mini ramp and bowl at my indoor park because they are not used to how slick the surface really is compared to a more grippy concrete surface or when they are skating in the street area on concrete floor.

This is why quite a number of those type of people will set up a board with softer wheels to ride on those ramps, or skate that for everything, as it is just way less likely to slip out and end in breaking something for them, as per a board I have specifically set up to skate on the slippery ramps with Spitfire 92 duro softer wheels, which feels just like normal 99 duro wheels on raw concrete in the outdoor section of my park.

It is not far off a cruiser in the overall feel of it, but it gives me way more confidence to skate the ramp and bowl that I know I would slip out on with normal 99 duro wheels.

As for anyone else who is not used to soft grippy wheels, they find the thing a beast, but no one has ever slipped out on it and I use it for beginners who are learning a lot on the ramps too as it still rolls fast, but will not have that icy feel to it that normal wheels do.


I do still skate the ramp / bowl quite often on my normal boards just as a warm up or to see how well I mopped the ramps, for which the surface is quite fast and not overly slippery when just having a few easy runs, but I only push it a bit to feel how much they slide, which is more than they grip, that's for sure.

As for your own local indoor park, if someone is cleaning the surfaces regularly and doing a good job, then it should be way less slippery, but if there is a dust build up, especially in certain areas, those can be like black ice on normal wheels and I saw that a lot at another indoor park I used to work at, people slipping out all the time on those slick ramps.

Looks like I have some experiments to conduct, before further gear acquisitions. I also have some thoughts about wheelbase/boards and bushings, but I’ll ask in another thread. I don’t think anyone is mopping the ramps. The concrete floor gets swept once in while, but you can still find some debris from one of the Masonite clad banks, that is shedding/peeling, tiny pebbles and a wood screw here and there.
I fell a couple of times in my last session there, but I don’t know if any of them were because of sliding around too much, as I’m simply not that experienced yet. One was wheelbite doing a kick turn below the coping on the mini. Sent my ass face first into the ramp.
If it turns out my falls have to do with riding hard-ish wheels, I’ll definitely look into 92a-95a-97a wheels.

[Murge]

are any pals getting their hands on the ojs early (a la dragons)
more interested in these than any of the powell wheels

Same. I never skated OJs but I think some have said they are sticky but if they fix that this wheel sounds good and more in my wheel house than dragons or the other bones

[bombsaway86]

Aren't Bones sPf made specifically for ramp surfaces? Don't those work?

I swear there's a hundred posts in here about indoor ramp surfaces, and I'm not sure if I've seen a single mention of SPF.

If you guys are honestly skating indoor parks so much, just have a separate deck set up specifically for that park.

Don’t use SPFs indoors, it will be like skating on ice. SPFs are made for smooth concrete parks. I know people who use them to skate vert (skatelite ramp), but we always mop the ramp before skating it. So unless you’re mopping the indoor park daily, stay away.

I personally use whatever 95a wheels I can find if I’m riding an indoor park or other slippery parks. OJs 95a wheels are good (haven’t tried the nomads yet but I’ve been meaning to). Speedlab and Rainskates have some decent 95a offerings too, but they’re on the bigger side.

[shpongle]

Everybody knows the only wheels worth using are formula 4 spitfires. Dont even bother with anything else.

[dr.prestige]

Everybody knows the only wheels worth using are formula 4 spitfires. Dont even bother with anything else.

Welp, it's decided, let's wrap it up folks, I guess there's no reason to post in this 8 year old, 193 page thread anymore

[FuzzGNU]

Everybody knows the only wheels worth using are formula 4 spitfires. Dont even bother with anything else.

But I like Dragons 93a more because Spitfire F4 99a can't even handle a little bit of crust and pebbles. I want to go fast, not clunk around on some slow wheel. But if you enjoy going slow and only skating perfectly manicured skateparks, then I understand and respect your decision. Just doesn't sound very core if you ask me, that's all.