Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock

[tortfeasor]

He was always gonna go after Thrasher. Took his lawyers about two years to figure out they trademarked GX1000. I have no idea if that's fast or slow but it was always gonna happen.

they probably knew for a while but were attempting to try and resolve it out of court and hunting down an insurance policy to go after. 

edit: they also probably sorted out the workers comp claim before trying to make a 3rd party liability claim.

[tortfeasor]

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I got my paralegal, which in certain jurisdictions is equal to a vending machine law degree.

I assume the plaintiff will sue Thrasher under respondeat superieur. The difficulty, as it appears to me with limited knowledge of contract law, is proving Jesse was an employee of Thrasher at the time of the incident: Were they specifically filming for a video involving Thrasher? Is GX considered an employee anytime they’re filming?

[close]

Gonna go ahead and say a 14 week certification course is not the same thing as a law degree. Anywhere. A paralegal does work delegated to them by a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but it’s no where near the same thing.

To illustrate the power of a law degree, there are 2 law schools in the state of Wisconsin that if you earn a juris doctorate you can be admitted the state bar and can practice law under something known as dipolma privilege, without having to take the bar exam, but one can only practice law in the state of Wisconsin.

And to answer your question, I assume all of them are considered independent contractors.

in every jurisdiction i'm aware of you do not have to be a formal employee to be considered an agent/servant/representative/under the control of a business.  in a lot of construction litigation the contractor, subcontractor, reality trust, and property management companies end up as defendants  for this very reason (thats why most of their contracts have subrogation clauses).

[Freelancevagrant]

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I got my paralegal, which in certain jurisdictions is equal to a vending machine law degree.

I assume the plaintiff will sue Thrasher under respondeat superieur. The difficulty, as it appears to me with limited knowledge of contract law, is proving Jesse was an employee of Thrasher at the time of the incident: Were they specifically filming for a video involving Thrasher? Is GX considered an employee anytime they’re filming?

[close]

Gonna go ahead and say a 14 week certification course is not the same thing as a law degree. Anywhere. A paralegal does work delegated to them by a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but it’s no where near the same thing.

To illustrate the power of a law degree, there are 2 law schools in the state of Wisconsin that if you earn a juris doctorate you can be admitted the state bar and can practice law under something known as dipolma privilege, without having to take the bar exam, but one can only practice law in the state of Wisconsin.

And to answer your question, I assume all of them are considered independent contractors.

[close]

I think he was just joking

I didn’t consider that and will feel like a huge dick head if that’s the case

[Mr. Stinky]

in every jurisdiction i'm aware of you do not have to be a formal employee to be considered an agent/servant/representative/under the control of a business.  in a lot of construction litigation the contractor, subcontractor, reality trust, and property management companies end up as defendants  for this very reason (thats why most of their contracts have subrogation clauses).

Big difference here is that we're talking an intentional tort and not a construction defect type case where it isn't clear whose faulty work among a cluster of contractors/subs whose work is closely intertwined caused the defect at the outset of a lawsuit.  While independent contractors are, like employees, agents of the person who hired them, scope of their agency is extremely attenuated as compared to a conventional employee because of the legal nature of that relationship.  The general rule remains that independent contractors use their own discretion in how to complete the work they were contracted to perform. So, in the absence certain rare exceptions, there is no liability by one who hires a contractor for the contractor's negligence.  That goes double for intentional torts, which require the extra element of ratification (advance approval of the tortious conduct or failure to subsequently address it) before holding employers liable for employee's conduct while in the course and scope of employment.  So at minimum, the slim chance that Thrasher/High Speed ratified the conduct would be required for liability, and that's assuming he were to be considered an employee (even more unlikely).

The case against the building is bad, too.  He's almost certainly an employee of a contractor who provides security services for the defendant building/property management, he's aware that altercations are possible in the course of his job, and the duty to warn, if any, would likely fall on his employer.  Since his employer is a contractor of the building/property management company, they (very much by design) aren't liable for the acts of independent contractors any more than Thrasher/High Speed.  Vieira is the low-hanging fruit, but he's judgment proof and the judgment could or would be discharged in bankruptcy anyway. 

I'm just spitballing and could be mistaken about something important, but still, I see lots of reasons to feel bad for this dude and his prospects of getting any money this way.  Even though I would quite literally be out of a job if it were any different, this is why civil lawsuits and liability insurance are no substitute for a nation simply treating its citizens humanely by providing for their essential needs through generous social programs.     

[fulltechnicalskizzy]

i temped as a receptionist for a law firm in new jersey for 3 months so im something of a lawyer myself

[TastyBurrito]

Don't you worry, I watched Matlock in a bar last night. The sound wasn't on, but I caught the gist of it.

[weregoingunion]

I got my paralegal, which in certain jurisdictions is equal to a vending machine law degree.

oh so that's what heath sold through those vending machines.

[Atiba Applebum]

I believe Duffel’s going to defend him (if the comments are any indication)

[tortfeasor]

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in every jurisdiction i'm aware of you do not have to be a formal employee to be considered an agent/servant/representative/under the control of a business.  in a lot of construction litigation the contractor, subcontractor, reality trust, and property management companies end up as defendants  for this very reason (thats why most of their contracts have subrogation clauses).

[close]

Big difference here is that we're talking an intentional tort and not a construction defect type case where it isn't clear whose faulty work among a cluster of contractors/subs whose work is closely intertwined caused the defect at the outset of a lawsuit.  While independent contractors are, like employees, agents of the person who hired them, scope of their agency is extremely attenuated as compared to a conventional employee because of the legal nature of that relationship.  The general rule remains that independent contractors use their own discretion in how to complete the work they were contracted to perform. So, in the absence certain rare exceptions, there is no liability by one who hires a contractor for the contractor's negligence. That goes double for intentional torts, which require the extra element of ratification (advance approval of the tortious conduct or failure to subsequently address it) before holding employers liable for employee's conduct while in the course and scope of employment.  So at minimum, the slim chance that Thrasher/High Speed ratified the conduct would be required for liability, and that's assuming he were to be considered an employee (even more unlikely).

The case against the building is bad, too.  He's almost certainly an employee of a contractor who provides security services for the defendant building/property management, he's aware that altercations are possible in the course of his job, and the duty to warn, if any, would likely fall on his employer.  Since his employer is a contractor of the building/property management company, they (very much by design) aren't liable for the acts of independent contractors any more than Thrasher/High Speed.  Vieira is the low-hanging fruit, but he's judgment proof and the judgment could or would be discharged in bankruptcy anyway. 

I'm just spitballing and could be mistaken about something important, but still, I see lots of reasons to feel bad for this dude and his prospects of getting any money this way.  Even though I would quite literally be out of a job if it were any different, this is why civil lawsuits and liability insurance are no substitute for a nation simply treating its citizens humanely by providing for their essential needs through generous social programs.   

there are plenty of examples of a  a party being held liable for an intentional tort committed an independent contractor:
bar/bouncer cases, Uber assault cases, sexual harassment cases, day cares & summer camps, private security cases, really weird malicious destruction of property claims that sounds like movie but are not.

if the depositions break right i actually really like the case against the building. plus strategically it makes a ton sense.  i would have made the same call.

[Abyss1]

speaking as someone who has sued someone....its not about winning it's about holding someone accountable, in the end you find out who is to blame....if you truly feel wronged

[manysnakes]

Of all this, I am particularly interested, but not surprised, to find out that Thrasher owns GX whole cloth. Makes sense, when you consider that GX is becoming something of a skater streetwear brand right as Thrasher became a little too mainstream for some.

[Atiba Applebum]

Of all this, I am particularly interested, but not surprised, to find out that Thrasher owns GX whole cloth. Makes sense, when you consider that GX is becoming something of a skater streetwear brand right as Thrasher became a little too mainstream for some.

They likely own Atlantic Drift outright as well

[Mr. Stinky]

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in every jurisdiction i'm aware of you do not have to be a formal employee to be considered an agent/servant/representative/under the control of a business.  in a lot of construction litigation the contractor, subcontractor, reality trust, and property management companies end up as defendants  for this very reason (thats why most of their contracts have subrogation clauses).

[close]

Big difference here is that we're talking an intentional tort and not a construction defect type case where it isn't clear whose faulty work among a cluster of contractors/subs whose work is closely intertwined caused the defect at the outset of a lawsuit.  While independent contractors are, like employees, agents of the person who hired them, scope of their agency is extremely attenuated as compared to a conventional employee because of the legal nature of that relationship.  The general rule remains that independent contractors use their own discretion in how to complete the work they were contracted to perform. So, in the absence certain rare exceptions, there is no liability by one who hires a contractor for the contractor's negligence. That goes double for intentional torts, which require the extra element of ratification (advance approval of the tortious conduct or failure to subsequently address it) before holding employers liable for employee's conduct while in the course and scope of employment.  So at minimum, the slim chance that Thrasher/High Speed ratified the conduct would be required for liability, and that's assuming he were to be considered an employee (even more unlikely).

The case against the building is bad, too.  He's almost certainly an employee of a contractor who provides security services for the defendant building/property management, he's aware that altercations are possible in the course of his job, and the duty to warn, if any, would likely fall on his employer.  Since his employer is a contractor of the building/property management company, they (very much by design) aren't liable for the acts of independent contractors any more than Thrasher/High Speed.  Vieira is the low-hanging fruit, but he's judgment proof and the judgment could or would be discharged in bankruptcy anyway. 

I'm just spitballing and could be mistaken about something important, but still, I see lots of reasons to feel bad for this dude and his prospects of getting any money this way.  Even though I would quite literally be out of a job if it were any different, this is why civil lawsuits and liability insurance are no substitute for a nation simply treating its citizens humanely by providing for their essential needs through generous social programs.   

[close]

there are plenty of examples of a  a party being held liable for an intentional tort committed an independent contractor:
bar/bouncer cases, Uber assault cases, sexual harassment cases, day cares & summer camps, private security cases, really weird malicious destruction of property claims that sounds like movie but are not.

if the depositions break right i actually really like the case against the building. plus strategically it makes a ton sense.  i would have made the same call.

Sure, it happens, but it's even less common than employer liability for employee intentional torts, which is already fairly uncommon.  At minimum it would take establishing an increased degree of control over the contractor sufficient to make them a de facto employee and foreseeability that the tort might be committed.

I suppose the best shot is liability against the building, since they might have directed the security to do something specific regarding skateboarders, but like you said, that's why good discovery is really important there.  I think it's a reach against High Speed/Thrasher, since it's not clear how exactly Vieira is legally tied to them or GX for that matter, but that's small potatoes compared to the building.

And none of this is to say that he won't see a payday, just that the best outcome is to find an angle early and settle against the parties with good liability policies before they drown him with motion practice. 

[inkandimages]

This is absolutely abhorrent. The fact that 5,309 people liked this is making me sick to my stomach. Can you imagine if some NHL player beat someone into a coma with their hockey stick? Or an MLB athlete used their bat to give someone brain damage? Why Thrasher even continues to back GX is mind boggling. Why the industry hasn't called out Thrasher and GX is just gross. Shame on all of them. Disgusting fools and assholes. I really hope they are all held accountable.

[Abyss1]

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[close]

This is absolutely abhorrent. The fact that 5,309 people liked this is making me sick to my stomach. Can you imagine if some NHL player beat someone into a coma with their hockey stick? Or an MLB athlete used their bat to give someone brain damage? Why Thrasher even continues to back GX is mind boggling. Why the industry hasn't called out Thrasher and GX is just gross. Shame on all of them. Disgusting fools and assholes. I really hope they are all held accountable.

when I started skating through 96-99, cats would always be talking about scenes in the movie KIDS, a few guys I skated with who later got into gang banging, would always pick fight with whom ever wouldn't let us skate.   SF is whole different animal though, I've had security come at me crazy just for cruising trough on a mini...I've even had cops harass me in the financial district for just walking my skateboard...not making any justifications but shits fucked all around

[conqueso]

thrasher about to throw a tour trip to turkey with the whole staff

[Red Eyed Swimmer]

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[close]

This is absolutely abhorrent. The fact that 5,309 people liked this is making me sick to my stomach. Can you imagine if some NHL player beat someone into a coma with their hockey stick? Or an MLB athlete used their bat to give someone brain damage? Why Thrasher even continues to back GX is mind boggling. Why the industry hasn't called out Thrasher and GX is just gross. Shame on all of them. Disgusting fools and assholes. I really hope they are all held accountable.

GX was definitely called out when it went down and JV went to jail. Not really sure how Thrasher is responsible - are they responsible for anything that a skater does in video or mag? Is converse responsible since dela was there? I get why they are included in the lawsuit but the lawyer gets paid to get the client paid so they go after the deepest pockets. 

[Donkey Lips]

I got my paralegal, which in certain jurisdictions is equal to a vending machine law degree.

Roses are red,
Violets are blue.
We'll see you in court,
'Cause we're suing yewww!

[fongool]

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[close]

This is absolutely abhorrent. The fact that 5,309 people liked this is making me sick to my stomach. Can you imagine if some NHL player beat someone into a coma with their hockey stick? Or an MLB athlete used their bat to give someone brain damage? Why Thrasher even continues to back GX is mind boggling. Why the industry hasn't called out Thrasher and GX is just gross. Shame on all of them. Disgusting fools and assholes. I really hope they are all held accountable.

that post is from 2 weeks before the incident happened

also, it will be very interesting to see how this suit plays out re: the notion that a sponsor could be held legally liable for anything a rider of theirs does in public while they're skating

[BacksideWallride]

Despite the video Dela got off scott free huh

[Atiba Applebum]

Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[yep yep]

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I got my paralegal, which in certain jurisdictions is equal to a vending machine law degree.

I assume the plaintiff will sue Thrasher under respondeat superieur. The difficulty, as it appears to me with limited knowledge of contract law, is proving Jesse was an employee of Thrasher at the time of the incident: Were they specifically filming for a video involving Thrasher? Is GX considered an employee anytime they’re filming?

[close]

Gonna go ahead and say a 14 week certification course is not the same thing as a law degree. Anywhere. A paralegal does work delegated to them by a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but it’s no where near the same thing.

To illustrate the power of a law degree, there are 2 law schools in the state of Wisconsin that if you earn a juris doctorate you can be admitted the state bar and can practice law under something known as dipolma privilege, without having to take the bar exam, but one can only practice law in the state of Wisconsin.

And to answer your question, I assume all of them are considered independent contractors.

hahaha. you're hyped on lawyers!

[mushroom slice]

Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

[Freelancevagrant]

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I got my paralegal, which in certain jurisdictions is equal to a vending machine law degree.

I assume the plaintiff will sue Thrasher under respondeat superieur. The difficulty, as it appears to me with limited knowledge of contract law, is proving Jesse was an employee of Thrasher at the time of the incident: Were they specifically filming for a video involving Thrasher? Is GX considered an employee anytime they’re filming?

[close]

Gonna go ahead and say a 14 week certification course is not the same thing as a law degree. Anywhere. A paralegal does work delegated to them by a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but it’s no where near the same thing.

To illustrate the power of a law degree, there are 2 law schools in the state of Wisconsin that if you earn a juris doctorate you can be admitted the state bar and can practice law under something known as dipolma privilege, without having to take the bar exam, but one can only practice law in the state of Wisconsin.

And to answer your question, I assume all of them are considered independent contractors.

[close]

hahaha. you're hyped on lawyers!

I specialize in bird law.

[GardenSkater77]

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Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[close]

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

No, it is you that has an implicit bias!

[mushroom slice]

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Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[close]

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

[close]

No, it is you that has an implicit bias!

How? I’m just asking a question?

[Freelancevagrant]

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Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[close]

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

[close]

No, it is you that has an implicit bias!

The name says it all. He’s a plant.

[JosephSmith]

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Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[close]

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

[close]

No, it is you that has an implicit bias!

[close]

The name says it all. He’s a plant.

You’re a towel

[Urtripping]

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Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[close]

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

Oh c'mon... can't understand why people aren't hyped on GX after this whole incident? Or Pizza skateboards for sponsoring this dude again?

I mean I guess I don't understand wanting blood for blood, and no I don't really like seeing careers demolished because of a bad decision. But as an advocate for justice, retribution and reform should be expected in the wake of an event like this. That's justice. Obviously I have no idea how Jesse feels or what he's done for or said to the family, but I don't recall seeing anything from Pizza or Jesse (or GX, for that matter) apologizing for or addressing his problematic behavior in the situation. Or Chase Webb's (unless you count denial after denial). Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are remorseless fucks.

[mushroom slice]

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Interesting to note, apparently he’s back on Pizza.  Wish they’d get sued into oblivion

[close]

Why do you hate these people so much? I can’t make heads or tails of it? Do you know them? You seem extremely caught up in their business. Is this sf stuff?

[close]

Oh c'mon... can't understand why people aren't hyped on GX after this whole incident? Or Pizza skateboards for sponsoring this dude again?

I mean I guess I don't understand wanting blood for blood, and no I don't really like seeing careers demolished because of a bad decision. But as an advocate for justice, retribution and reform should be expected in the wake of an event like this. That's justice. Obviously I have no idea how Jesse feels or what he's done for or said to the family, but I don't recall seeing anything from Pizza or Jesse (or GX, for that matter) apologizing for or addressing his problematic behavior in the situation. Or Chase Webb's (unless you count denial after denial). Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are remorseless fucks.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t know these people and I gather you don’t either. Aruba apple head seems to know them personally so I asked them a question.