Twin tail

[Idk]

There is something about the slick the concave and how it feels when you slide it’s nice.

[Ok]

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I like most graphics made by Gonz.

[close]

Hate to burst your bubble but Gonz doesn't do all the Krooked art anymore, there's a team of artists over there that have been pumping out his style for years.

[close]

I actually don't mind if Gonz doesn't do them himself, I just generally like that style and art direction. Real has some really great graphics once in a while, but the good ones can be few and far between.

Krooked has some graphics I like, in present times, but their early stuff was a lot more compelling. Sometimes I just fondly think of the Sean Sheffey gest board, apropos of nothing…(I just went a searched for the image and the graphic isn’t amazing, and the one I had was purple, but it just seemed abs felt good/cool at the time).
The new graphics, although nice, can at times, seem sorta creepy with their forgery vibes. I’ve said this before, but toy machine has the same, yet worse, feel to me on this: simplistic graphics that were compelling/interesting, and now seem hollow.
Nostalgia is odd

[Xen]

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I like most graphics made by Gonz.

[close]

Hate to burst your bubble but Gonz doesn't do all the Krooked art anymore, there's a team of artists over there that have been pumping out his style for years.

[close]

I actually don't mind if Gonz doesn't do them himself, I just generally like that style and art direction more than Real's. Real has some really great graphics once in a while, but the good ones can be few and far between, especially on Ishod's Twins. Real's art direction is a bit all over the place.

Totally agree; krooked has the best style out of DLX no doubt. As for REAL, I prefer the basic ogo boards to just about anything they put out (their low pros were pretty sweet back in the day). AH...hit or miss for me, not into the Pigeon nonsense.

There is something about the slick the concave and how it feels when you slide it’s nice.

I'm on a slick now (NHS) and like the (all) DLX slicks, the consistency is what makes them shine, especially if you hit regular spots. Is it magical? No. But you do get a little more slide and a lot less stick. So much so I had to move from 99a to 101/103s to keep up with the slick.

It's also heavier, like it is on every board. Really want to try out the VX Slick once they put it on some better shapes...once cna hope for a VX twin slick in the future

[Dan Gerous]

There is something about the slick the concave and how it feels when you slide it’s nice.

I get why Ishod wants the slick all the time, it's a bit weird at first but once you are used to it, it's really nice and more consistant across various types of ledges/rails/curbs and through various states of waxness/broken-in or not... less bad surprises.

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I like most graphics made by Gonz.

[close]

Hate to burst your bubble but Gonz doesn't do all the Krooked art anymore, there's a team of artists over there that have been pumping out his style for years.

[close]

I actually don't mind if Gonz doesn't do them himself, I just generally like that style and art direction. Real has some really great graphics once in a while, but the good ones can be few and far between.

[close]

Krooked has some graphics I like, in present times, but their early stuff was a lot more compelling. Sometimes I just fondly think of the Sean Sheffey gest board, apropos of nothing…(I just went a searched for the image and the graphic isn’t amazing, and the one I had was purple, but it just seemed abs felt good/cool at the time).
The new graphics, although nice, can at times, seem sorta creepy with their forgery vibes. I’ve said this before, but toy machine has the same, yet worse, feel to me on this: simplistic graphics that were compelling/interesting, and now seem hollow.
Nostalgia is odd

Early graphics were probably made by Gonz more often... I think he still does the guest boards himself but I'm not 100% sure. Anyway, the twin tails I buy to skate, not as wall boards, so between two I'll pick the nicer looking one but it's not really that important to me.

[Xen]

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There is something about the slick the concave and how it feels when you slide it’s nice.

[close]

I get why Ishod wants the slick all the time, it's a bit weird at first but once you are used to it, it's really nice and more consistant across various types of ledges/rails/curbs and through various states of waxness/broken-in or not... less bad surprises.

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I like most graphics made by Gonz.

[close]

Hate to burst your bubble but Gonz doesn't do all the Krooked art anymore, there's a team of artists over there that have been pumping out his style for years.

[close]

I actually don't mind if Gonz doesn't do them himself, I just generally like that style and art direction. Real has some really great graphics once in a while, but the good ones can be few and far between.

[close]

Krooked has some graphics I like, in present times, but their early stuff was a lot more compelling. Sometimes I just fondly think of the Sean Sheffey gest board, apropos of nothing…(I just went a searched for the image and the graphic isn’t amazing, and the one I had was purple, but it just seemed abs felt good/cool at the time).
The new graphics, although nice, can at times, seem sorta creepy with their forgery vibes. I’ve said this before, but toy machine has the same, yet worse, feel to me on this: simplistic graphics that were compelling/interesting, and now seem hollow.
Nostalgia is odd

[close]

Early graphics were probably made by Gonz more often... I think he still does the guest boards himself but I'm not 100% sure. Anyway, the twin tails I buy to skate, not as wall boards, so between two I'll pick the nicer looking one but it's not really that important to me.

Same here, but the recent Mobius graphics for the Ishod...I'd rather skate a non-twin...such weak art and ugly stains (not like the monarch series was special either)...worrest graphics are much better this round.

Speaking of the Monarch series...curious what the shift to doves and butterflies is all about...cathedral series, peace tree, even the recent drop...flock/monkey biz...just not feeling it.

[Dan Gerous]

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There is something about the slick the concave and how it feels when you slide it’s nice.

[close]

I get why Ishod wants the slick all the time, it's a bit weird at first but once you are used to it, it's really nice and more consistant across various types of ledges/rails/curbs and through various states of waxness/broken-in or not... less bad surprises.

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I like most graphics made by Gonz.

[close]

Hate to burst your bubble but Gonz doesn't do all the Krooked art anymore, there's a team of artists over there that have been pumping out his style for years.

[close]

I actually don't mind if Gonz doesn't do them himself, I just generally like that style and art direction. Real has some really great graphics once in a while, but the good ones can be few and far between.

[close]

Krooked has some graphics I like, in present times, but their early stuff was a lot more compelling. Sometimes I just fondly think of the Sean Sheffey gest board, apropos of nothing…(I just went a searched for the image and the graphic isn’t amazing, and the one I had was purple, but it just seemed abs felt good/cool at the time).
The new graphics, although nice, can at times, seem sorta creepy with their forgery vibes. I’ve said this before, but toy machine has the same, yet worse, feel to me on this: simplistic graphics that were compelling/interesting, and now seem hollow.
Nostalgia is odd

[close]

Early graphics were probably made by Gonz more often... I think he still does the guest boards himself but I'm not 100% sure. Anyway, the twin tails I buy to skate, not as wall boards, so between two I'll pick the nicer looking one but it's not really that important to me.

[close]

Same here, but the recent Mobius graphics for the Ishod...I'd rather skate a non-twin...such weak art and ugly stains (not like the monarch series was special either)...worrest graphics are much better this round.

Speaking of the Monarch series...curious what the shift to doves and butterflies is all about...cathedral series, peace tree, even the recent drop...flock/monkey biz...just not feeling it.

Dove is a peace symbol and butterflies symbolize spiritual rebirth, transformation, change, hope... It has been recurrent symbols through the years on Real and specifically Ishod boards, maybe they're important themes to him... or to one of the graphic designers at DLX?

Could be worst though, I've never been tempted to sand off or paint over graphics until I got a Jamie Foy Twin!

[Xen]

I've never been tempted to sand off or paint over graphics until I got a Jamie Foy Twin!

Polar opposite to the DLX offerings for sure.

Neither speak to me, but the Foy is much more on brand than the doves and butterflies IMO. Personal agendas aside, you need to make graphics that sell (and maybe they are).

Best one out of DLX in ages:

[Roisto]

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There is something about the slick the concave and how it feels when you slide it’s nice.

[close]

I get why Ishod wants the slick all the time, it's a bit weird at first but once you are used to it, it's really nice and more consistant across various types of ledges/rails/curbs and through various states of waxness/broken-in or not... less bad surprises.

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I like most graphics made by Gonz.

[close]

Hate to burst your bubble but Gonz doesn't do all the Krooked art anymore, there's a team of artists over there that have been pumping out his style for years.

[close]

I actually don't mind if Gonz doesn't do them himself, I just generally like that style and art direction. Real has some really great graphics once in a while, but the good ones can be few and far between.

[close]

Krooked has some graphics I like, in present times, but their early stuff was a lot more compelling. Sometimes I just fondly think of the Sean Sheffey gest board, apropos of nothing…(I just went a searched for the image and the graphic isn’t amazing, and the one I had was purple, but it just seemed abs felt good/cool at the time).
The new graphics, although nice, can at times, seem sorta creepy with their forgery vibes. I’ve said this before, but toy machine has the same, yet worse, feel to me on this: simplistic graphics that were compelling/interesting, and now seem hollow.
Nostalgia is odd

[close]

Early graphics were probably made by Gonz more often... I think he still does the guest boards himself but I'm not 100% sure. Anyway, the twin tails I buy to skate, not as wall boards, so between two I'll pick the nicer looking one but it's not really that important to me.

I remember Tommy Guerrero saying in some interview that he did the layouts of Krooked decks based on drawings and sketches Gonz made or something like that until he thought to himself that why is he doing that and they hired someone to do it. At least back then it was all based on Gonz’s art from my understanding even if they weren’t all made 100% by him.

[Ok]

There is a setup video with the Bobby Worrest where he says something about them both doing the graphic. Some recent mike Anderson’s have been nice. But yeah the Gonz stuff was hot

[Dan Gerous]

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I've never been tempted to sand off or paint over graphics until I got a Jamie Foy Twin!

[close]

Polar opposite to the DLX offerings for sure.

Neither speak to me, but the Foy is much more on brand than the doves and butterflies IMO. Personal agendas aside, you need to make graphics that sell (and maybe they are).

Best one out of DLX in ages:

Haaa yes, I got the shaped TG, on the wall for now though.

[Easy Slider]

Taking this here: I see three different Foy twins. Are they identical shapes?

[Xen]

Taking this here: I see three different Foy twins. Are they identical shapes?

First and Second are TT, Third is not.

[Dan Gerous]

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Taking this here: I see three different Foy twins. Are they identical shapes?

[close]

First and Second are TT, Third is not.

I think the third is as well... all the same TT shape, at least according to this:
https://www.skatewarehouse.com/Deathwish_Jamie_Foy_Gator_Deck/descpage-DWFG85DK.html

And this:

[Easy Slider]

Thanks bros, so I can pick between two ugly graphics and the „Gator“ model. Spoilt for choice here 

[Xen]

Guess it is? Nice to see BB using new [accurate?]stickers for a change, seems they finally ran out of the silver/blk ones.

I was assuming not since it's listed as 8.5x32 where as the other twin Foys are listed as:

8.5 x 31.875
14.375 Wheelbase

Could be a Foy graphic on the [Neen] 8.5x32 twin shape tho? Isn't this an older graphic?

Gator Graphic, can't trust anyone's measurements these days.

From SW:
Width - 8.5"
Length - 32"
Wheelbase - 14.28"?

From Socal:
Width - 8.5"
Length - 32"
Wheelbase - 14.5"?

[Xen]

https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=121698.0

Bought a Quasi twin tail (Justin Henry 8.375) and hated it. 3 sessions in and I went and bought a shop deck from my local. Not my cup of tea personally.

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Bought a Quasi twin tail (Justin Henry 8.375) and hated it. 3 sessions in and I went and bought a shop deck from my local. Not my cup of tea personally.

[close]

Was it the fact that it's a twin or was it something else? Curious as I'm eyeing this deck.

[close]

I'm a big fan of Quasi's 8.375 usually, I think it was really the fact that it's a twin. The board is 1/2 inch shorter than the usual 8.375 Quasi, so it felt pretty short for me. The concave and wheelbase was your typical Quasi though, if you're into twin tails I don't think you can go wrong.

As @Dan Gerous noted this board runs smaller than measured (as all quasi seem to run shorter than listed) but it's the only thing keeping me from picking this one up.

[jakeumms]

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https://socalskateshop.com/Heroin-Mandy-Enemy-Symmetrical-Shaped-Skateboard-Deck-Green-Stain-95x31-75.html#!?cc_decks=124579&c=cc_grip-tape

Width: 9.5"
Length: 31.75"
Wheelbase: 14.25"
Nose: 6.87"
Tail: 6.87"



I might have to bite on this. My 161s forged hollows need a home.

[close]

Looks fun.
You skated the 161s yet? Wide thunders are fun for me

[close]

Yep, had the 161s on a few boards off an on (symm egg). Problem is wheelbite for me :\ rode some thunders today, wheebite city...shelved that board and hopped on the mindy indy setup..way less wheebite. I'm too sketchy for thunders lol....but man that pop is on point.

[close]

have you tried ventures?
i had the same issues with thunders until i switched over

[close]

I did when the 5.6 ti dropped -  I wasn't a fan, even with extensive tinkering - I still have two pairs of unground 'lites' hollow pin, solid axle on my kids board, they just roll around no grinds.

I'm still eyeing this deck and only the 161s I have on hand would fit, tho I could go 8.75 but that's too magic carpet for me.

honestly, polars with wheels well work the best for me on thunders (team plates)...the wells help so much.

Got this board last weekend as I was fan of the old double shovel but was down to try the true twin version. Here are a couple of relevant details. It has a measured 14.125wb which is exactly my zone and a 1/8th shorter than listed. The old version was listed as 14.125 but was actually 14.25. It is pretty dead on 9" over the bolts. I'm gonna ride it with 159s and feel OK about the minimal carpeting. I do sort of wish they had just put the old shape on an actual twin mold and then also shortened the wheelbase (matching the 14.125 the OG came labelled as) as I don't think making the shape any wider really does anything for me. The OG was 8.75 over the bolts too so it was a better fit. I'm happy to have some kind of double shovel available so I'll take either one but I suspect I'll prefer the old shape after I skate the new one. Also the graphics are ass on this new one and probably have to go. Sorry to the artists.

[Xen]

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https://socalskateshop.com/Heroin-Mandy-Enemy-Symmetrical-Shaped-Skateboard-Deck-Green-Stain-95x31-75.html#!?cc_decks=124579&c=cc_grip-tape

Width: 9.5"
Length: 31.75"
Wheelbase: 14.25"
Nose: 6.87"
Tail: 6.87"



I might have to bite on this. My 161s forged hollows need a home.

[close]

Looks fun.
You skated the 161s yet? Wide thunders are fun for me

[close]

Yep, had the 161s on a few boards off an on (symm egg). Problem is wheelbite for me :\ rode some thunders today, wheebite city...shelved that board and hopped on the mindy indy setup..way less wheebite. I'm too sketchy for thunders lol....but man that pop is on point.

[close]

have you tried ventures?
i had the same issues with thunders until i switched over

[close]

I did when the 5.6 ti dropped -  I wasn't a fan, even with extensive tinkering - I still have two pairs of unground 'lites' hollow pin, solid axle on my kids board, they just roll around no grinds.

I'm still eyeing this deck and only the 161s I have on hand would fit, tho I could go 8.75 but that's too magic carpet for me.

honestly, polars with wheels well work the best for me on thunders (team plates)...the wells help so much.

[close]

Got this board last weekend as I was fan of the old double shovel but was down to try the true twin version. Here are a couple of relevant details. It has a measured 14.125wb which is exactly my zone and a 1/8th shorter than listed. The old version was listed as 14.125 but was actually 14.25. It is pretty dead on 9" over the bolts. I'm gonna ride it with 159s and feel OK about the minimal carpeting. I do sort of wish they had just put the old shape on an actual twin mold and then also shortened the wheelbase (matching the 14.125 the OG came labelled as) as I don't think making the shape any wider really does anything for me. The OG was 8.75 over the bolts too so it was a better fit. I'm happy to have some kind of double shovel available so I'll take either one but I suspect I'll prefer the old shape after I skate the new one. Also the graphics are ass on this new one and probably have to go. Sorry to the artists.

Thanks for this!

The short WB might be ok (I'd thro my 161s on it). Not a fan of the art myself but whatever.

Would you mind taking a pic of the top? I get the feeling that it might be too tapered for my taste.

[jakeumms]

@Xen I figured I'd stop the wall of text from growing to an inescapable size.

Too tapered is exactly what I was trying to say when I was talking about my preference for the 9" non twin. That felt like a overgrown popsicle and this feels more like something that could have been a competitor with the Barnyard, except a true twin and with a nice short wheelbase. On that tip, I'm looking forward to setting it up.

[Xen]

Now I really want one!

[robocop]

Quasi has twin tails up.  Wish they'd list the nose/tail dims
https://quasiskateboards.com/collections/decks/products/henry-mirror-8-125
https://quasiskateboards.com/collections/decks/products/henry-mirror-8-375

[j....soy.....]

I’ll prolly buy that board and be bummed on it….I like Justin Henry, the company….the twin….somehow for a twin I’m ok to spend the money because I actually get another week to two weeks out of it…

[Xen]

I’ll prolly buy that board and be bummed on it….I like Justin Henry, the company….the twin….somehow for a twin I’m ok to spend the money because I actually get another week to two weeks out of it…

Well according to SoCal, it isn't even a twin lol...
https://socalskateshop.com/Quasi-Justin-Henry-Mirror-Skateboard-Deck-Green-8125x3175.html#!?cc_decks=124674&c=cc_grip-tape

Deck Specs:
Width: 8.125"
Length: 31.375"
Wheelbase: 14.125"
Nose: 7"
Tail: 6.375"

If I had to guess, I'd put the kicks at 6.65/6.7" based on other Quasi 8.125"x31.75"s

Edit: Back a page or two:

Quasi Justin Henry Mirror Twin Tail 8.375...

It's a bit shorter than claimed, about 3/32 shorter than 31.75"?
Other measures are pretty much bang on, maybe a hair under 8.375" wide and wheelbase is indeed 14.25", tails are about 6 5/8 - 6.6", very much a twin tail like the Ishod, not twin nose or hybrid.

[j....soy.....]

I see my local has one….I’ll look at it and see….

[Easy Slider]

I am starting to look for a follow up to the 8.5 Neen twin noses. I liked the flat concave on those.

So let‘s see: These Foy 8.5 twins are all the same except for the graphic, right?

Comparison:

Width: same
Noses/tails: Neen 7 / Foy 6.75
Wheelbase: Neen 14.5 / Foy 14.3 (right?)
Lenghth: Neen 32+ / Foy under 32

I guess I could live with the shorter dimensions or might even like them better.

My main concern ist the concave. Is the Foy quite as mellow/shallow as the Neen?

I also remember that the CRob was suggested. I see that the width and length are identical with the Foy but wheelbase even shorter at 14 (which makes the tails a tad longer). However, the Chocolate has a steeper concave hasn‘t it?

Based on this knowledge I tend to giving the Foy a shot rather than the CRob. Am I missing something or are there alternatives?

I know some of these points were discussed earlier but I would appreciate your views.

[BALARGUE]

Reading feedback about the Quasi twin and that bit feels weird to me:

very much a twin tail like the Ishod, not twin nose or hybrid

i personally consider the Ishod IS NOT a twin tail, more like a twin nose mainly because of the angle ("non-steepness" makes it feel like a nose) and the length of the "nails" (6.75")

It felt bad when i tried one and i know i would enjoy it if it was steeper with shorter "nails" (like a classic tail, 6.5" ish)

any comment ? enlighten me please

[Mbrimson88]

Reading feedback about the Quasi twin and that bit feels weird to me:

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very much a twin tail like the Ishod, not twin nose or hybrid

[close]

i personally consider the Ishod IS NOT a twin tail, more like a twin nose mainly because of the angle ("non-steepness" makes it feel like a nose) and the length of the "nails" (6.75")

It felt bad when i tried one and i know i would enjoy it if it was steeper with shorter "nails" (like a classic tail, 6.5" ish)

any comment ? enlighten me please

I am guessing you are talking about the 8.5 version as the smaller size boards have shorter kicks than that.

My usual BBS 8.5 has a 6.75 tail and a 7.125 nose, which feels fairly comfortable to me, although my usual other 8.38 decks definitely have shorter tails and feel a bit more inclined to not feel like a boat, so I understand what you are saying.

It is still a bit sad, with the Real Ishod 8.5 twin I bought never leaving the shrink wrap, even with repeated attempts to get it out, stand on it, feel the conave, look at the kicks, etc.

I have a well used 8.3 and 8.25 Real Ishod twin here somewhere too, which were worlds apart from the 8.5 shape.

The angle of kicks is actually good for me, but I do prefer more mellow kicks, so again I can understand how that would be a pain for you.

The wheelbase at 14.5 was also what I usually have on my other boards, so how did that compare for you?

[Easy Slider]

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Reading feedback about the Quasi twin and that bit feels weird to me:

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very much a twin tail like the Ishod, not twin nose or hybrid

[close]

i personally consider the Ishod IS NOT a twin tail, more like a twin nose mainly because of the angle ("non-steepness" makes it feel like a nose) and the length of the "nails" (6.75")

It felt bad when i tried one and i know i would enjoy it if it was steeper with shorter "nails" (like a classic tail, 6.5" ish)

any comment ? enlighten me please

[close]

I am guessing you are talking about the 8.5 version as the smaller size boards have shorter kicks than that.

My usual BBS 8.5 has a 6.75 tail and a 7.125 nose, which feels fairly comfortable to me, although my usual other 8.38 decks definitely have shorter tails and feel a bit more inclined to not feel like a boat, so I understand what you are saying.

It is still a bit sad, with the Real Ishod 8.5 twin I bought never leaving the shrink wrap, even with repeated attempts to get it out, stand on it, feel the conave, look at the kicks, etc.

I have a well used 8.3 and 8.25 Real Ishod twin here somewhere too, which were worlds apart from the 8.5 shape.

The angle of kicks is actually good for me, but I do prefer more mellow kicks, so again I can understand how that would be a pain for you.

The wheelbase at 14.5 was also what I usually have on my other boards, so how did that compare for you?

Sorry if I missed that but what is the issue with the 8.5 Ishod twin? Too steep kicks?

[Xen]

I am starting to look for a follow up to the 8.5 Neen twin noses. I liked the flat concave on those.

So let‘s see: These Foy 8.5 twins are all the same except for the graphic, right?

Comparison:

Width: same
Noses/tails: Neen 7 / Foy 6.75
Wheelbase: Neen 14.5 / Foy 14.3 (right?)
Lenghth: Neen 32+ / Foy under 32

I guess I could live with the shorter dimensions or might even like them better.

My main concern ist the concave. Is the Foy quite as mellow/shallow as the Neen?

I also remember that the CRob was suggested. I see that the width and length are identical with the Foy but wheelbase even shorter at 14 (which makes the tails a tad longer). However, the Chocolate has a steeper concave hasn‘t it?

Based on this knowledge I tend to giving the Foy a shot rather than the CRob. Am I missing something or are there alternatives?

I know some of these points were discussed earlier but I would appreciate your views.

Depends on the Foy as it's possible they used both twins for his shapes:

https://www.deathwishskateboards.com/products/foy-strictly-deathwish-8-5?_pos=2&_sid=f697d9763&_ss=r

https://www.deathwishskateboards.com/products/foy-gator-deck-8-5?_pos=6&_sid=f697d9763&_ss=r

I have a few Deathwish Foy Exorcism Failed graphics on ice and they measure 8.5 x 31.875 x 14.375; very mellow kicks...

Not ridden the crob but crail boards are steeper and the kicks usually longer.

[Ok]

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I am starting to look for a follow up to the 8.5 Neen twin noses. I liked the flat concave on those.

So let‘s see: These Foy 8.5 twins are all the same except for the graphic, right?

Comparison:

Width: same
Noses/tails: Neen 7 / Foy 6.75
Wheelbase: Neen 14.5 / Foy 14.3 (right?)
Lenghth: Neen 32+ / Foy under 32

I guess I could live with the shorter dimensions or might even like them better.

My main concern ist the concave. Is the Foy quite as mellow/shallow as the Neen?

I also remember that the CRob was suggested. I see that the width and length are identical with the Foy but wheelbase even shorter at 14 (which makes the tails a tad longer). However, the Chocolate has a steeper concave hasn‘t it?

Based on this knowledge I tend to giving the Foy a shot rather than the CRob. Am I missing something or are there alternatives?

I know some of these points were discussed earlier but I would appreciate your views.

[close]

Depends on the Foy as it's possible they used both twins for his shapes:

https://www.deathwishskateboards.com/products/foy-strictly-deathwish-8-5?_pos=2&_sid=f697d9763&_ss=r

https://www.deathwishskateboards.com/products/foy-gator-deck-8-5?_pos=6&_sid=f697d9763&_ss=r

I have a few Deathwish Foy Exorcism Failed graphics on ice and they measure 8.5 x 31.875 x 14.375; very mellow kicks...

Not ridden the crob but crail boards are steeper and the kicks usually longer.

I actually liked that Florida gator Foy graphic. Haven’t had a deathwish since an antwuan board (with an entirely regrettable graphic, he’s the goat tho).
@Xen you like yours?
I skate a lot of crail stuff, no desire to buy the Robert’s tho