Wheelbase on your trucks

[Murge]

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Kinda mind blown about the thunder standard Indy forge having the same dimension. I just switched to Indy Ti forged from thunder standards but I’m basically riding the same thing correct? I notice less wheel bite but idk what’s real anymore?

[close]

Thunders getting more wheelbite than Indys isn't related to the wheelbase extension.

Yeah. I was just rambling about them being almost the same except my anecdotal wheel bite situation.  My bad.

[Xen]

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[close]

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

[close]

Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.

If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).

I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.

Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?

[close]

It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.

You're assuming I'm going axle to axle, which I'm not, I'm basing it off of the trucks holes as the manufacturers do. It could also be done axle to axle, if I like say a 17.25" axle I can find a deck drilled in a way that with certain trucks might roughly hit that.

[Roisto]

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[close]

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

[close]

Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.

If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).

I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.

Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?

[close]

It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.

[close]

You're assuming I'm going axle to axle, which I'm not, I'm basing it off of the trucks holes as the manufacturers do. It could also be done axle to axle, if I like say a 17.25" axle I can find a deck drilled in a way that with certain trucks might roughly hit that.

Yeah but the point is that if a deck has the mounting holes 14.25" apart, they're always going to be 14.25" apart no matter what trucks you mount there. No truck will pull that measurement in or push it out at all.

[satan]

Film 5.5 (8.25" axle) +2 7/8"

Hmm, interesting. So more like Ace?

http://www.mtlmediagroup.com/loveskatemag/www/?p=1419
Guess I read this wrong. I took it as between Indy and Thunder, but closer to Indy.
He says, Closer to the Indy than the Thunder.

https://offsetskatesupply.co.uk/brand/film/
Listed heights are weird too, both 51mm and 55mm?? Wtf?
5.0 -- 51mm
5.25 - 55mm
5.5 -- 51mm
5.75 - 55mm

[texasplant]

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[close]

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

[close]

Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.

If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).

I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.

Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?

[close]

It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.

If this is the case - in theory then my Anti Hero 14.5 wb with Aces will skate the same way as say a Krooked 14.25 wb with Indys... right? Why would I pick one over the other, aside from wanting to skate a different truck? Will the 14.5 with Aces be harder to flip than the one with Indys? As someone who can't decide between Ace and Indy, but find Aces a little short on anything under 14.5", is it detrimental at all to having the longer wheelbase even though the axle to axle is the same?

I've had too much coffee and I'm overthinking this, but I hope that made sense.

[Xen]

14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

[tzhangdox]

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[close]

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

[close]

Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.

If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).

I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.

Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?

[close]

It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.

[close]

If this is the case - in theory then my Anti Hero 14.5 wb with Aces will skate the same way as say a Krooked 14.25 wb with Indys... right? Why would I pick one over the other, aside from wanting to skate a different truck? Will the 14.5 with Aces be harder to flip than the one with Indys? As someone who can't decide between Ace and Indy, but find Aces a little short on anything under 14.5", is it detrimental at all to having the longer wheelbase even though the axle to axle is the same?

I've had too much coffee and I'm overthinking this, but I hope that made sense.

Well you'll have the same effective wheelbase which nice to keep consistent, but there's a lot more to how your setup feels overall (length of board, length and steepness of kicks, truck height, weight and geometry etc)

I recently tried a krooked with a 14.5 wheelbase on tensor atgs, coming from skating 14.25s on ventures. The effective wheelbases were very close (negligible difference) but holy fuck they felt so different in practice. (probably doesn't help that the krooked was 32.25 and the other board was 32)

[Roisto]

14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! ) do nothing to it.

[rocklobster]

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14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

[close]

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! ) do nothing to it.

Same, I use Indys as the mid point and plot trucks on either side of it. Palelight's recent measurement on the forged and cast base plates does muddy the water here.

[tzhangdox]

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14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

[close]

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! ) do nothing to it.

Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.

[Roisto]

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14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

[close]

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! ) do nothing to it.

[close]

Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.

It is? Please elaborate then cuz I sure as fuck don’t get it.

[tzhangdox]

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14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

[close]

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! ) do nothing to it.

[close]

Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.

[close]

It is? Please elaborate then cuz I sure as fuck don’t get it.

Thunders and Ventures are considered to be 'longer wheelbase trucks' whilst Indy and Ace are generally considered to be 'shorter wheelbase trucks', hence the terms 'push out' and 'pull in'. Obviously its not technically correct, since Aces don't pull in your wheelbase to be shorter than 14.25 inches, its just pulls your wb in relative to if you had ventures on. We're speaking colloquially here.

I explain trucks affecting wheelbase in this exact way, using the terms 'pull in' and 'push out', to my friends who often have no idea what wheelbase is and it makes perfect sense to them. Everyone knows that no trucks will actually pull the axles inside the inner bolt holes, one glance at any skateboard and you can see that... You're being pedantic here, literally nobody is confused by the original comment.

[Roisto]

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14.25 IS my reference.

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.

Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.

Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.


Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance

[close]

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! ) do nothing to it.

[close]

Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.

[close]

It is? Please elaborate then cuz I sure as fuck don’t get it.

[close]

Thunders and Ventures are considered to be 'longer wheelbase trucks' whilst Indy and Ace are generally considered to be 'shorter wheelbase trucks', hence the terms 'push out' and 'pull in'. Obviously its not technically correct, since Aces don't pull in your wheelbase to be shorter than 14.25 inches, its just pulls your wb in relative to if you had ventures on. We're speaking colloquially here.

I explain trucks affecting wheelbase in this exact way, using the terms 'pull in' and 'push out', to my friends who often have no idea what wheelbase is and it makes perfect sense to them. Everyone knows that no trucks will actually pull the axles inside the inner bolt holes, one glance at any skateboard and you can see that... You're being pedantic here, literally nobody is confused by the original comment.

I agree with everything you said. But what Xen is saying here is just nonsense. Especially the bolded parts:

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[satan]

Indy forged vs cast.. Thunder, Venture too
Just trying to think of reasons why forged and cast have different wb.
Have you guys watched truck making vids and seen how pivot cup holes are drilled? They just set the base plate in a jig and use a drill press, depth is set on the press. Now if they use the same jig for forged and cast, and don't put a shim under forged baseplates, then the longitudinal location of the pivot cup would change slightly. Same for when they drill the kingpin hole. But I'm thinking the holes might move closer together instead of both holes moving the same direction. I'll try getting baked and see if that helps me visualize things. Really that's just an excuse..

Well.. get baked didn't help but rewatching a Tracker vid worked.
Drill the kingpin hole from the opposite side as the pivot cup. That'll offset both in the same direction. Iirc the angles are similar. 75 and 70 degrees?

[jay_nev]

Ace 55 and 66 the same +2.75” as 44?

[rocklobster]

Anyone know what Theeve CSX v3 Trucks do for WB? Heard they are in between Indys and Ace.

[Firebert]

You're being pedantic here

Agreed, I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles, such as ACE, Indy, and Theeve, will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc. It doesn't literally change  the space between bolt holes on a deck, and if you think that he is trying to say that, you are just being willfully ignorant.

[Stigmata]

I always find it hard to decide what trucks i wanna use when i have a 14.125 wheelbase, either my Thunder Hollow Lights or my Indy Forged Hollows.

[Roisto]

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You're being pedantic here

[close]

Agreed, I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles, such as ACE, Indy, and Theeve, will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc. It doesn't literally change  the space between bolt holes on a deck, and if you think that he is trying to say that, you are just being willfully ignorant.

I don't think that's what he means. But I am confused as to what trucks would make a 14.25" wheelbase feel like a 14.25" wheelbase as it seems that all the main brands and a few others make shorter or longer wheelbases feel like 14.25". Basically I was just wondering what his reference was but I see this is getting nowhere and I'm being called out here for trying to make sense of an unclear statement so whatever. I can discuss this further but I really have no need as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

[Firebert]

Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

[Roisto]

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Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes  FFS.

[close]

What's your point?

[Firebert]

What's your point?

That you are obfuscating what Xen means by wheelbase. Case in point:

With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

Which is true. But you say....

This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference....

Which is why I say...

I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles.....will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc....

But then you said,

I don't think that's what he means.

Which is why you are being called pedantic, and willfully ignorant.

[Roisto]

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What's your point?

[close]

That you are obfuscating what Xen means by wheelbase. Case in point:

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With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.

[close]

Which is true. But you say....

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This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference....

[close]

Which is why I say...

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I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles.....will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc....

[close]

But then you said,

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I don't think that's what he means.

[close]

Which is why you are being called pedantic, and willfully ignorant.

Hmm. My reply was unclear. Sorry about that. I meant that I didn't think he meant that any trucks would change the mounting hole distances from what they are. I get that Ventures on a 14" would feel like Indys on 14.25" and Aces on 14.5" so I get what he's saying there.

What I don't understand is how most trucks will make some boards that are not 14.25 feel like just "14.25" no trucks specified. These statements do not make any sense to me:

so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB

With what trucks would 14.25" feel like 14.25" if all major brands (& few others) make other wheelbases feel "like 14.25"?

[munchbox]

im just waiting on the new double checked thread

[Firebert]

Okay let me try to clarify what Xen means once more by editing his comment in question

Example:

I like 14.25" wb (mounting hole measurement):

With Creature's 14.353/14.4 WB, I know Indy types pull the WB in to feel like14.25.

On a shorter WB under 14.25, I know Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at least 14.25WB

It's funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and I either push or pull it in to hit that.

What I don't understand is how most trucks will make some boards that are not 14.25 feel like just "14.25" no trucks specified. These statements do not make any sense to me.

With what trucks would 14.25" feel like 14.25" if all major brands (& few others) make other wheelbases feel "like 14.25"?

He is saying that the feeling of the industry standard is possible with most trucks. That means that the industry standard is always achievable with the right truck. In his example, he specifies which trucks he uses to get boards of different wheelbases to feel like 14.25". He's not saying that every truck makes boards feel like 14.25 full stop, just that it is achievable to get there when you don't have the exact WB you are used to. But as always, there are exceptions because of other factors (tail/nose/shape, etc.) Hope this helps to clarify.

[Roisto]

Okay let me try to clarify what Xen means once more by editing his comment in question

Expand Quote

Example:

I like 14.25" wb (mounting hole measurement):

With Creature's 14.353/14.4 WB, I know Indy types pull the WB in to feel like14.25.

On a shorter WB under 14.25, I know Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at least 14.25WB

It's funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and I either push or pull it in to hit that.

[close]

Expand Quote

What I don't understand is how most trucks will make some boards that are not 14.25 feel like just "14.25" no trucks specified. These statements do not make any sense to me.

With what trucks would 14.25" feel like 14.25" if all major brands (& few others) make other wheelbases feel "like 14.25"?

[close]

He is saying that the feeling of the industry standard is possible with most trucks. That means that the industry standard is always achievable with the right truck. In his example, he specifies which trucks he uses to get boards of different wheelbases to feel like 14.25". He's not saying that every truck makes boards feel like 14.25 full stop, just that it is achievable to get there when you don't have the exact WB you are used to. But as always, there are exceptions because of other factors (tail/nose/shape, etc.) Hope this helps to clarify.

Unfortunately it doesn't because a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures so a "bare 14.25" feel" does not exist in that regard. This is what I have an issue with. If he were to compare other trucks and wheelbases to let's say cast Indys on 14.25" it'd all make perfect sense.

[Stigmata]

I did my own measurements with all the trucks i currently have, on a 14.25 WB Real deck

Indy 149 Forged Hollows measure +3.00
Indy 144 Forged Hollows measure +3.00

Thunder 148 Lights measure +3.25
Thunder 149 Hollow Lights measure +3.25

[palelight]

im just waiting on the new double checked thread

Probably not going to do that, at least for now. The amount of very firm opinions on methods and measuring will likely just make any other thread with a bunch of tape-measured measurements turn into a shit show.

To get any sort of result that’s going to satisfy everyone I’d end up having to get some 24” extended range callipers, dykem blue, and some sort of machined measuring jig that would fit a deck while also being able to adjust to make sure the trucks are centered in the pivot… so basically a massive investment to satisfy somewhere between 1/64 - 1/16 of an inch vs. using a tape measure and eyeballing it.

I’m good with what was out there before, which is still true: Theeve > Ace > Indy > Thunder > Venture, with the caveat that the forged models extend the wb a little further than cast, which goes all the way back to that dude’s blog from years ago.

Truth is, trucks are anchored by rubber at four points per truck (bushings, and wheels), turn with the technology of a pioneer wagon, and are affixed to a flexible, temperature unstable material (wood, despite how hard/dried it may be)… looking for absolutes in measurements is probably a massive exercise in futility. 

TLDR: I'll stand by the pics/measurements I've posted if you go back and check them out, but that's about as accurate as I'm willing/able to go.

[Firebert]

a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures

Agreed. This isn't relevant to what we are saying about WB distance, I think that would be more about the way geometry affects the feel of wheelbase.

"bare 14.25" feel"

No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.

[munchbox]

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im just waiting on the new double checked thread

[close]

Probably not going to do that, at least for now. The amount of very firm opinions on methods and measuring will likely just make any other thread with a bunch of tape-measured measurements turn into a shit show.

To get any sort of result that’s going to satisfy everyone I’d end up having to get some 24” extended range callipers, dykem blue, and some sort of machined measuring jig that would fit a deck while also being able to adjust to make sure the trucks are centered in the pivot… so basically a massive investment to satisfy somewhere between 1/64 - 1/16 of an inch vs. using a tape measure and eyeballing it.

I’m good with what was out there before, which is still true: Theeve > Ace > Indy > Thunder > Venture, with the caveat that the forged models extend the wb a little further than cast, which goes all the way back to that dude’s blog from years ago.

Truth is, trucks are anchored by rubber at four points per truck (bushings, and wheels), turn with the technology of a pioneer wagon, and are affixed to a flexible, temperature unstable material (wood, despite how hard/dried it may be)… looking for absolutes in measurements is probably a massive exercise in futility. 

TLDR: I'll stand by the pics/measurements I've posted if you go back and check them out, but that's about as accurate as I'm willing/able to go.

understandable, ill just do my own measurements