@useless_wooden_knowledge vs Evergreen Skateparks/Bad Park Design

[Nosferatu]

I thought this was a good IG post worthy of discussion. Some of these parks really are ridiculous.

"We got a lot of DMs this morning for the supposedly anti-Evergreen stories. Lots of folks agreed that these parks, while certainly creative, don’t do much to serve the small towns that often get them. Other folks went in on us, letting us know that we are “kooks” and that we should “stay the fuck out of skateboarding.” So since evergreenskateparks already blocked us (like they seem to block anyone who dares criticize their work) this post is for the people who disagreed. Let’s have a good-faith conversation. There’s room for A LOT in skateboarding. Diversity in who skates and also, obviously, diversity in terrain. But as creative as these park designs are, they’re simply not truly functional and definitely not what the majority of skaters, especially younger skaters, want to ride. Public parks should consider utility. Their design should be the end result of a conversation between the locals and the builders. After years of advocating for a park and raising funds, imagine if the only thing to skate in your small town, or for miles in any direction, was a pump track? How many parks sit unused because the design is not what people want to skate? How much money is wasted? Most towns only get one chance at a park, so all we’re saying is why not build something with more utility? Creativity, sure, but also provide the basics. A ledge, a WIDE quarter pipe, a hip, and if there’s money left over then go fuckin nuts. Include the locals in the design process. There is a middle ground. And if you’re still pissed that anyone dared to criticize one of these parks, we can’t help you. Sorry your feelings got hurt. Take it out on the pump track."

[bigdave]

I saw this. I commented. I think its a really interesting idea to post something like that and then call it a "good faith conversation starter."

I also think it's interesting one of the parks they cited....has two long straightaways that appear to have ledges and rails.

I dont live anywhere near an Evergreen park, and an Evergreen park wont ever be built where I live.
They have their style. They look interesting. I'd like to skate one. However I don't have any skin in that game.

I also dont pretend to know the community process in each city/neighborhood these were built in regarding feedback etc.

Perhaps thats a more productive place to start than this, which just looks like whining.

[coldbrew]

The biggest issue for me with parks like this and designed in this type of way is that it's almost impossible for more than one person to be skating it at a time. The whole park gets occupied by one person per run. There's a couple small parks near me like this and half the sesh is spent just waiting your turn to go.

When they're empty they can be a blast and you can fuck around and find some new lines or weird shit to do, but overall I think the comment about a small local park being more utility than these is important.

[Francis Xavier]

Definitely a gallery of "Just because you can,doesn't mean you should." Like stated previously,these fucking parks have no flow of traffic, and that's as important as being able to flow skating it. There are a number of shit parks where kids (hang arounds) stand in the way to just crowd a ledge or flatbar. Pump tracks are fun, but I'd like to fuck a little harder and maybe get hurt on a QP or something.

There have been meetings for a park in my area,theres a good sized plot of land ready too,hopefully evergreen doesn't get the bid and leave a giant dirt pit in the center.

[Hyliannightmare]

The ones with ledges and rails are fine. As someone that grew up with a shitty prefab park that never got upgraded even though team pain has built countless parks in nearby cities I would love to have a park like those as my local

[bigdave]

Definitely a gallery of "Just because you can,doesn't mean you should." Like stated previously,these fucking parks have no flow of traffic, and that's as important as being able to flow skating it. There are a number of shit parks where kids (hang arounds) stand in the way to just crowd a ledge or flatbar. Pump tracks are fun, but I'd like to fuck a little harder and maybe get hurt on a QP or something.

There have been meetings for a park in my area,theres a good sized plot of land ready too,hopefully evergreen doesn't get the bid and leave a giant dirt pit in the center.

 I mean the other reality is that not everyone that utilizes cement for fun rides a skateboard in 2021.

[CossRooper]

those evergreen parks look really fun but I wholeheartedly agree that if they were my local, especailly my only local, i would be wildly bummed.

what most cities need is : a LARGE square ledge/manual pad, a pyramid hip, a wide quarterpipe with coping and a huge deck, and a rail of some kind with no kink or curve or anything. $20 to $30 grand or something? nothing crazy.

but instead team pain or california skateparks or whatever are pitching these half a million dollar parks that are designed for grant taylor, and every ledge or rail has some sort of Salvador Dali postmodern twist on it. fucking annoying man.

The biggest issue for me with parks like this and designed in this type of way is that it's almost impossible for more than one person to be skating it at a time. The whole park gets occupied by one person per run. There's a couple small parks near me like this and half the sesh is spent just waiting your turn to go.

this is team pain mid 2010s design philosophy in a nutshell, these sorta "directional" or flow based parks. most florida parks that got built near me are a disaster when theres more than 5 or 6 people actively skating, or even just 2 or 3 "all terrain rippers" going mach 10 can effectively shut down the whole park.

[Youoverthere]

I’ve skated a handful of evergreen parks in OR and CO. I personally love the flow of all the ones I’ve skated and the one in Frisco has a nice street section as well. We have a mix of grindline, team pain, and Cali parks out here so it’s nice to flow around a crater shaped park for a change. Only downside for me is that it only takes like five skaters to make it “crowded” because there’s almost too many ways to flow around their designs.

[smellsdead]

good thing you can always skate street

[pizzafliptofakie]

When I helped organize to get a park built in my city, the only people who pushed for Evergreen to do it were old people and people that didn't skate. Even as someone who primarily skates transition, those park designs are boring.

[DanCorteseFromMTVSports]

I think this issue points to a larger issue of getting a skatepark built these days: To get a park built, you need to have something to show for it. In other words, if you are spending millions of taxpayer funds, elected officials (and those who pitched the idea) need something impressive to be photographed with during the ribbon cutting and for the general public to drive by. If you show up with two long ledges, a one foot high manny box, a jersey barrier, and the rest flatground,  representatives of the general and park community will get knocked for wasting town/city funds because "there's nothing there". Can't instagram that.Couple this with the need for cities/towns to take everyone's (including non-skaters) comments into account because it's "their money", it becomes a convoluted mess. (There's also a conversation to be had about, IMO, these parks catering to the older individuals who know how local governments work versus kids who use the park the most but that's for another time.)

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for listening to the population on these things. However, there should be some priority voices and it should be the population that will utilize the resource the most. Either that, or just focus on one thing and stick with that.

[Francis Xavier]

Expand Quote

Definitely a gallery of "Just because you can,doesn't mean you should." Like stated previously,these fucking parks have no flow of traffic, and that's as important as being able to flow skating it. There are a number of shit parks where kids (hang arounds) stand in the way to just crowd a ledge or flatbar. Pump tracks are fun, but I'd like to fuck a little harder and maybe get hurt on a QP or something.

There have been meetings for a park in my area,theres a good sized plot of land ready too,hopefully evergreen doesn't get the bid and leave a giant dirt pit in the center.

[close]

 I mean the other reality is that not everyone that utilizes cement for fun rides a skateboard in 2021.

Yeah,but these are skate parks so everyone else can lobby for a wide sidewalk

good thing you can always skate street

Facts

[Hyliannightmare]

good thing you can always skate street

Exactly.  Parks get too crowded with level 9000 dudes and scooter kids in the afternoon anyway

[Nosferatu]

Expand Quote

good thing you can always skate street

[close]

Exactly.  Parks get too crowded with level 9000 dudes and scooter kids in the afternoon anyway

I spent 99% of my time skating street growing up but I imagine that’s harder for kids in rural areas who have gravel roads n shit.

[IpathCats]

Evergreen does some amazing work. There is some weight to the argument about having some basics, and making the park skateable by more than a couple people at a time, but they've proven they can do that. This shit is rad, and if you've ever poured concrete you know how sick their work is. And if you haven't ever poured concrete, and are complaining about this, shut the fuck up and go pour something you like, poosey.

[elbarto]

My biggest issue is that we keep getting them popping up all over Oregon and I’d prefer it if they took the money from like 5 tiny parks and put it into one big one.

[Skatebrain]

3 near me in Michigan.   I’m not a fan.   The lines there are very prescribed.   Flow through here, fly out here, slash grind here repeat.  They seem like in order to anything beyond just flow around, you’d have to spend a lot of time learning the park.   Grind line build riverside in Detroit, and it takes no getting used to.  Very basic elements with just a few unique elements.   I’m old and should like the “moonscape,” but I can’t stand it.       

[boi-cuzudo]

What an entitled Karen lol, so unhappy!!!

[TunaNoodle]

Skateparks are full of people standing around, so to not design areas for people to stand around in and be out of the way of traffic seems problematic.

[boi-cuzudo]

"they’re simply not truly functional and definitely not what the majority of skaters, especially younger skaters, want to ride."

I see lots of younger skaters tearing up Evergreen parks, actually I see young-lings ripping Evergreen harder than most adult skaters, at least Oregon and Washington... It's like the grown ups are too rusty/grumpy for all the fun transition...

[Hyliannightmare]

I thought this was a good IG post worthy of discussion. Some of these parks really are ridiculous.

"We got a lot of DMs this morning for the supposedly anti-Evergreen stories. Lots of folks agreed that these parks, while certainly creative, don’t do much to serve the small towns that often get them. Other folks went in on us, letting us know that we are “kooks” and that we should “stay the fuck out of skateboarding.” So since evergreenskateparks already blocked us (like they seem to block anyone who dares criticize their work) this post is for the people who disagreed. Let’s have a good-faith conversation. There’s room for A LOT in skateboarding. Diversity in who skates and also, obviously, diversity in terrain. But as creative as these park designs are, they’re simply not truly functional and definitely not what the majority of skaters, especially younger skaters, want to ride. Public parks should consider utility. Their design should be the end result of a conversation between the locals and the builders. After years of advocating for a park and raising funds, imagine if the only thing to skate in your small town, or for miles in any direction, was a pump track? How many parks sit unused because the design is not what people want to skate? How much money is wasted? Most towns only get one chance at a park, so all we’re saying is why not build something with more utility? Creativity, sure, but also provide the basics. A ledge, a WIDE quarter pipe, a hip, and if there’s money left over then go fuckin nuts. Include the locals in the design process. There is a middle ground. And if you’re still pissed that anyone dared to criticize one of these parks, we can’t help you. Sorry your feelings got hurt. Take it out on the pump track."

Also seems kinda biases cause that first park doesn't look done. The 2nd park they only focused on the transition part when there's clearly some street elements to the left and correct me if I'm wrong but the last 3 slides are the same park and it has ledges and rails...

[Dwyck]

Evergreen does some amazing work. There is some weight to the argument about having some basics, and making the park skateable by more than a couple people at a time, but they've proven they can do that. This shit is rad, and if you've ever poured concrete you know how sick their work is. And if you haven't ever poured concrete, and are complaining about this, shut the fuck up and go pour something you like, poosey.

I dont pour concrete though. I skateboard. Sometimes at the skatepark. If i wanted to marvel at architecture I'd go look at buildings.

[Hyliannightmare]

Like these parks are examples of what I grew up having so those examples look amazing to me

[OnSlapAtWork]

Chiming in from Colorado, the Team Pain parks are almost all exactly the same. 
You have to be pretty good at street skating to be able to skate their street parks.  They are enjoyable, but repetitive.  Every time a new one is built here, it's not at the top of my list of things to do.

The Milliken skatepark and the Frisco skatepark were both built by Evergreen.  Both in my opinion are super fun to skate and a refresher from the street league-esque street sections at Team Pain parks.

Nothing will beat how fun Denver park or Trails park are tho.

[Vds]

 Really borings after one or 2 sessions

[IpathCats]

Expand Quote

Evergreen does some amazing work. There is some weight to the argument about having some basics, and making the park skateable by more than a couple people at a time, but they've proven they can do that. This shit is rad, and if you've ever poured concrete you know how sick their work is. And if you haven't ever poured concrete, and are complaining about this, shut the fuck up and go pour something you like, poosey.

[close]

I dont pour concrete though. I skateboard. Sometimes at the skatepark. If i wanted to marvel at architecture I'd go look at buildings.

You don't have to "marvel at architecture" to respect your park builders. Go pour something sometime, no matter how shitty it is, you will love it.

[IpathCats]

Like these parks are examples of what I grew up having so those examples look amazing to me

Feedback ted got mad at me for hating on some clip he commented on that was filmed at a prefab park. Fuck feedback ted, and fuck pre fab parks.

[Chavo]

The second park looks fun.

[Manny Fapuiao]

this is such a great debate, honestly

[IpathCats]

I used to think these were a good idea until I went on a road trip and tried them out. They are fun for what they are but as others have mentioned, a bit limited.  Now I've sort of 180'd on the idea of "flow" as a good design concept for skate parks. I think you actually want different areas spread out where skater of different ability or just different terrain preference can practice stuff without getting in the way of everyone else.

IMO some of the biggest bummer new parks aren't Evergreen, but the ones where they combine "flow" ideas with regular obstacles. It doesn't work to have guys bailing the ledge/hubba right into the path all the scooter kids are zipping through

skatepark designer should start making containment zones for the scooters. like put the pump track and fly out off to the side, completely cut off from the ledge area, etc

lastly I don't think some of the counter argument consider the political reality of parks like this. like telling the kid to just go skate street or build their own. most of these are going up in small towns where there's no spots and small towns are pretty anti skateboarding. getting a park usually mean skateboarding is now banned everywhere else, and by the way we're also going to destroy the DIY spot at the old basketball court. so its the moon park or nothing. you better like it kid or else, we spent a lot of (Jeff Ament's) money on you ungrateful skate boarders...

I agree with the sentiment of trying to have segmented "zones" but that doesn't mean they can't tie together at different points. And you can always keep building if your diy gets busted. Move into the woods, plenty of options if you're motivated enough.