Author Topic: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)  (Read 46160 times)

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HyperBeam

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2022, 10:27:58 AM »
i didn't even realize mike sinclair skated

GAY

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair new brand)
« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2022, 12:23:27 PM »
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I feel the name is not really doing it any favors. Feels like the name that would be on a bootleg Bobby Puleo or Koston board
[close]

The cheap in house brand trucks that go on Alien Workshop trucks are called Xenia. I'm sure they're shit but using that name got me stoked.

But they're pronounced Shania, as in Twain...I think you can see where I'm going with this.

hiljentaa

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2022, 01:04:44 PM »
They look good. How tall are they and how much do they weigh?

Not a fan of the name, but whatever. Most skateboard companies have terrible brand imagery anyway.

BMCsteve

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2022, 01:37:05 PM »
Pretty sure these are made by 2Hex.  If you have enough coin, you also can get your own trucks made

https://www.2hex.com/skateboard-trucks-configurator

GardenSkater77

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2022, 03:27:59 PM »
Pretty sure these are made by 2Hex.  If you have enough coin, you also can get your own trucks made

https://www.2hex.com/skateboard-trucks-configurator

We should all crowd source a competitor brand called SLAPez for the sole purpose of taking away what pidily amount of market share this guy expects to generate.

Sketch Hitchcock

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2022, 04:11:55 PM »
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Pretty sure these are made by 2Hex.  If you have enough coin, you also can get your own trucks made

https://www.2hex.com/skateboard-trucks-configurator
[close]

We should all crowd source a competitor brand called SLAPez for the sole purpose of taking away what pidily amount of market share this guy expects to generate.

Could you imagine what the product design and testing thread would look like?  Would be hilarious to see everyone try and get on the same page about how exactly SLAPez trucks should be

Lee Ralphs Dear Old Mum

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2022, 04:28:00 PM »
SLAP Pals will not tolerate a truck that makes you nose/ tail slide on your wheels.
SLAP Pals will not tolerate squeaking bushings, cracking and popping sounds beyond a three session break in
SLAP Pals will not tolerate axle/ kingpin nuts that come loose
SLAP Pals will not tolerate any truck that uses anything remotely resembling a symbol of hate
SLAP Pals will not allow Jason Jessee to ride their SLAPez trucks
SLAPez Team riders must include Fred Gall and Frank Gerwer.
SLAP Pals would strongly prefer their trucks are manufactured at the ERMICO foundry
SLAP Pals would strongly prefer odd sized axles including 8 1/8", 8 3/8", 8 5/8" and 8 7/8" options.

sluggers

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2022, 06:01:05 PM »
If you look at the truck label the reverse way intended it looks like they are named FIddelS.

Might be a better name, or new Sinclair candy bar company.

Sketch Hitchcock

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2022, 06:04:27 PM »
If you look at the truck label the reverse way intended it looks like they are named FIddelS.

Might be a better name, or new Sinclair candy bar company.

Fiddelstix

sluggers

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2022, 06:25:29 PM »
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Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?

jgonzalez

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2022, 06:30:45 PM »
Pretty sure these are made by 2Hex.  If you have enough coin, you also can get your own trucks made

https://www.2hex.com/skateboard-trucks-configurator

So how much will it cost to bring kreper back

nothing's been the since same

Xen

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2022, 06:44:58 PM »
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Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.
[close]

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?

Restricting the amount a bushing can deform would for sure factor into wheelbite (or not). The pivot doesn't restrict anything except metal rubbing on metal.

sluggers

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2022, 06:53:40 PM »
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Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.
[close]

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?
[close]

Restricting the amount a bushing can deform would for sure factor into wheelbite (or not). The pivot doesn't restrict anything except metal rubbing on metal.

Nah, the pivot bushing controls a lot of the turn.

Xen

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2022, 08:00:29 PM »
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Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.
[close]

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?
[close]

Restricting the amount a bushing can deform would for sure factor into wheelbite (or not). The pivot doesn't restrict anything except metal rubbing on metal.
[close]

Nah, the pivot bushing controls a lot of the turn.

Read my comment again:

"The pivot doesn't restrict anything"

All the turning you do goes through the pivot, they've a totally different function than bushings; to your point, yes, they are tied more directly to a trucks geo [turn] than a bushing set.

No one swaps out pivot cups to curb wheelbite my dude.




Xen

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #74 on: November 15, 2022, 08:07:03 PM »
Pretty sure these are made by 2Hex.  If you have enough coin, you also can get your own trucks made

https://www.2hex.com/skateboard-trucks-configurator

Got to admit, I think you're right. Shape is different all around tho...

Smallest amount of Thrasher coverage possible.

https://www.thrashermagazine.com/articles/trash/announcing-slappy-trucks/
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 08:14:18 PM by Xen »

sluggers

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #75 on: November 15, 2022, 08:08:04 PM »
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Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.
[close]

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?
[close]

Restricting the amount a bushing can deform would for sure factor into wheelbite (or not). The pivot doesn't restrict anything except metal rubbing on metal.
[close]

Nah, the pivot bushing controls a lot of the turn.
[close]

Read my comment again:

"The pivot doesn't restrict anything"

All the turning you do goes through the pivot, they've a totally different function than bushings; to your point, yes, they are tied more directly to a trucks geo [turn] than a bushing set.

No one swaps out pivot cups to curb wheelbite my dude.

Speak for yourself, the pivot bushing is the key.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 09:42:30 PM by sluggers »

Xen

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2022, 08:12:10 PM »
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.
[close]

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?
[close]

Restricting the amount a bushing can deform would for sure factor into wheelbite (or not). The pivot doesn't restrict anything except metal rubbing on metal.
[close]

Nah, the pivot bushing controls a lot of the turn.
[close]

Read my comment again:

"The pivot doesn't restrict anything"

All the turning you do goes through the pivot, they've a totally different function than bushings; to your point, yes, they are tied more directly to a trucks geo [turn] than a bushing set.

No one swaps out pivot cups to curb wheelbite my dude.
[close]

Speak for yourself, the pivot cup is the key.

I made a post, on a forum so I am speaking for my self...lol, that's how it works...

Having fucked with numerous brands of pivot cups, duros, etc., they're fucking snake oil.

Bushings and washers (flat or cupped) have impact on wheelbite (the fucking item in question here), not fucking pivot cups...keep on keeping on tho if you think that works for you.

sluggers

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2022, 09:38:41 PM »
Expand Quote
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)
[close]

That bottom washer (in the images) cups that bushing like a MF.
[close]

Is that what people mean by “wheel bite resistance”? Or is it the robustness of the black pivot bushing sitting in the pivot cup.?
[close]

Restricting the amount a bushing can deform would for sure factor into wheelbite (or not). The pivot doesn't restrict anything except metal rubbing on metal.
[close]

Nah, the pivot bushing controls a lot of the turn.
[close]

Read my comment again:

"The pivot doesn't restrict anything"

All the turning you do goes through the pivot, they've a totally different function than bushings; to your point, yes, they are tied more directly to a trucks geo [turn] than a bushing set.

No one swaps out pivot cups to curb wheelbite my dude.
[close]

Speak for yourself, the pivot cup is the key.
[close]

I made a post, on a forum so I am speaking for my self...lol, that's how it works...

Having fucked with numerous brands of pivot cups, duros, etc., they're fucking snake oil.

Bushings and washers (flat or cupped) have impact on wheelbite (the fucking item in question here), not fucking pivot cups...keep on keeping on tho if you think that works for you.

You literally said “No one swaps out…”

That is the very definition of speaking for others.

I was discussing pivot bushings sitting inside the pivot cup, the pivot cup is part of the baseplate, big difference, that was my item in question and seems you got confused or don’t know the difference.

sluggers

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2022, 09:50:52 PM »
Anyway, the question and point still stands and is up to debate the robustness of the pivot Bushing in these new trucks could potentially add to wheel bite resistance while not sacrificing turn quality so Sinclair may be on to something.

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2022, 06:27:26 AM »
i didn't even realize mike sinclair skated

hes actaully really good

is this brand actually geared towards people who wanna do a lot of slappies? if there is tons of extra grind clearance i can see this making sense cause i axel'd a pair of indys in 20 weeks last year

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2022, 07:42:45 AM »
Expand Quote
Will start this off by saying I am a fuck the rest kinda guy. Haven't had anything other than forged Indy's for the past 10 to 15 years on my main board. I wanted to join the ace hype train (they are a beautiful truck), but have never been able to get a pair to my liking. They do not grind like they should either, but that is a different story.

Been riding the 8.5 standard KP for a couple weeks now on a lightly used popsicle that I had laying around. I love talking shit on things, but overall I do not really have any gripes with these. They feel good right when set up, which is surprising, but they have also worn in/ loosened up nicely. I have not really messed with them much on any bigger transition, but the trucks have been fun to play around with on slappy curbs, boxes, and flatgound. I am not a small boi and enjoy to ride a decently loose truck and these have a bit of wheel bite resistance that doesn't seem to negatively affect the feel of the turn of the truck. Something that I did not know I wanted, but think I kinda like.

The verdict is still out, as to how these will hold up since its only been a couple weeks of riding but they have been a pleasant surprise thus far. Solid job Larry.
[close]

pretty similar in height to forged 149s, are there any obvious differences other than the aforementioned wheelbite resistance? (probably attributed to bushings)

The height definitely feels similar to an indy. They did come with two different shapes of top washers for the KP nut. The one they came with hugs the bushing to form, where the one that came in the bag with them was much more similar to a normal shaped top washer for the KP. The one thing that really looks different to me on them, is the cut around the KP. It looks much more like a Thunder truck in that area, which I wondered if that would have anything to do with the wheelbite resistance?

manysnakes

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2022, 09:41:59 AM »
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i didn't even realize mike sinclair skated
[close]

hes actaully really good

is this brand actually geared towards people who wanna do a lot of slappies? if there is tons of extra grind clearance i can see this making sense cause i axel'd a pair of indys in 20 weeks last year

I do a lot of slappys and wear out trucks pretty quickly (at least compared to some of my peers), but wearing through them is part of the fun and I don't think I would even choose a different truck simply because it would last me a little longer. Ultimately the difference between buying a pair of trucks every 1.5 years or every 2 years would never factor into my decision.

TastyBurrito

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2022, 09:46:13 AM »
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i didn't even realize mike sinclair skated
[close]

hes actaully really good

is this brand actually geared towards people who wanna do a lot of slappies? if there is tons of extra grind clearance i can see this making sense cause i axel'd a pair of indys in 20 weeks last year

I think people sometimes forget that he's an old pro from the early 90s. Also, he's been skating more since pandemic (and having lost weight).

But yea, he's an old man skater now, just doing slappys. I saw him at the Bellflower DMV once.

Also, axel'd a pair in 20 weeks?!? What kind of crust are you skating? I feel like a year of slappys on super groomed curbs really didn't dent my trucks.

disclosed

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2022, 11:37:49 AM »
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i didn't even realize mike sinclair skated
[close]

hes actaully really good

is this brand actually geared towards people who wanna do a lot of slappies? if there is tons of extra grind clearance i can see this making sense cause i axel'd a pair of indys in 20 weeks last year
[close]

I think people sometimes forget that he's an old pro from the early 90s. Also, he's been skating more since pandemic (and having lost weight).

But yea, he's an old man skater now, just doing slappys. I saw him at the Bellflower DMV once.

Also, axel'd a pair in 20 weeks?!? What kind of crust are you skating? I feel like a year of slappys on super groomed curbs really didn't dent my trucks.

i axeld a indy in a month. technicly not brand new but they had only seen skatepark coping before that. learned slappies and was skating in a new curb that was completely raw and unskated before. hit axle on my front truck 4 weeks in.
but now that this curb is skated in it doesnt do much damage at all.

baker3G

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2022, 11:44:34 AM »
I'm skating a pair and they feel amazing. Def my new fav truck

Went from Indy to Thunder, Thunder to Ace, Ace to Slappy.

Slappy's feel kinda like Aces but the kingpin clearance is impeccable.. haven't caught on a bs smith yet.


Indy's suck IMO now.

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2022, 11:52:52 AM »
I am interested but would feel kinda stupid with my trucks saying Slappy even tho I slappy lot and am a card carrying Slap pal.
why come?

Life is too short to be angry at the Shrimp Blunt intro

goodatmeth

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2022, 12:06:49 PM »
I'm skating a pair and they feel amazing. Def my new fav truck

Went from Indy to Thunder, Thunder to Ace, Ace to Slappy.

Slappy's feel kinda like Aces but the kingpin clearance is impeccable.. haven't caught on a bs smith yet.


Indy's suck IMO now.

I don't ride indys but can't imagine them sucking, what do you dislike about them?

ish_wav

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2022, 12:16:59 PM »
I'm skating a pair and they feel amazing. Def my new fav truck

Went from Indy to Thunder, Thunder to Ace, Ace to Slappy.

Slappy's feel kinda like Aces but the kingpin clearance is impeccable.. haven't caught on a bs smith yet.


Indy's suck IMO now.

Are you riding the standard kingpin or the IKP? I’m gonna snag a pair as soon as they land on skate warehouse. Also, what’s the wheelbase on these like?

jgonzalez

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2022, 01:13:26 PM »
I am interested but would feel kinda stupid with my trucks saying Slappy even tho I slappy lot and am a card carrying Slap pal.
SLAP pal slappied on slappies?

nothing's been the since same

augustmoon

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Re: Slappy trucks (Mike Sinclair's new brand)
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2022, 01:30:56 PM »
no way in hell I'm putting a truck on my board that has "slappy" written on it.  don't care if they make me ollie 10 feet high. 

also will never again touch anything Sinclair associated with a 10 foot pole

just get a pair of Ace
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