Ace trucks

[Xen]

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Would it be possible to replace the top bushing with a normal height ACE top bushing? I assume the difference is maybe just 3mm or so in height. Would the kingpin/insert still have enough threads to securely connect hanger and baseplate?

Also: could you in principle replace the ACE inverted kingpin with for instance a Slappy inverted kingpin?

[close]

I have only seen video and pics, not in person, but the way they talk about it being the shortest kingpin in history I would think that it might be too short to add much more in than what they have designed to go in there.

As to any other kingpin, the lock system which has vertical grooves in the kingpin still turns as per usual, so there is nothing to say that any other kingpin cannot also be used in there and just go down a bit further through the baseplate - just no lock in option unless you cut them in there yourself.


The video XEN posted has some really good close ups of all the parts, right on the 3:00 min mark.

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[close]

As a fan of skating symmetrical boards and IKP, the click click click of the ACE IKP system, really tames my OCD about truck tightness being equal across both trucks...but I dont need aymore trucks....probably ever .

Also: could you in principle replace the ACE inverted kingpin with for instance a Slappy inverted kingpin?

But why would you want or need to? It's already lower than what slappy offers (until August when they drop the lower pin) and works with the proprietary system ACE has in place; I can't tell, but it doesn't look like the new ace plates have any sort of locknut/nylon inside it, relying soley on the groove/nib system so chances are, no other pin is going to stay in/tight...they also use a [/i]low[/i] top bushing for a reason...ya know?

[tuesday]

Because in case the kingpins break like their axles used to bend or work like their 38 specials nuts it would be nice to be able to fall back on something else instead of being stuck on something proprietary.

[GBLange]

Because in case the kingpins break like their axles used to bend or work like their 38 specials nuts it would be nice to be able to fall back on something else instead of being stuck on something proprietary.

Probably need to remove the revolutionary sleeve system of the newer baseplates. If sleeve is wider than standard kingpin size, then maybe no.

[Mbrimson88]

Because in case the kingpins break like their axles used to bend or work like their 38 specials nuts it would be nice to be able to fall back on something else instead of being stuck on something proprietary.

Seeing all those other hollow inverted kingpins break, I was wondering if these hollow kingpins would also end up the same, but at least if something does happen, they should replace them - just a pain dealing with broken product in the mean time though.

Guessing someone soon enough will get them and then try any and every other part on them to see what works and what doesn't work.

[Xen]

The fit and finish on these ACE IKPs is lightyears ahead of the rest of the industy (slappy a distant second). Sure they're just trucks, and will get wrecked, but there is clearly thought put into the overall presentation. Pretty impressive.

[Bongwater Mojito]

Anyone has put the IKP AF1 onto a kitchen scale? What's the verdict? I guess hard bushings for these are in the pipeline too?

[tuesday]

Total gear nerdery: according to info given by tactics the weight of inverted hollow vs. 'normal' hollow AF1s is

for                                               44           55
Weight (g) inverted hollow:       352.0    361.0     
Weight (g) 'normal' hollow:       369.4    376.91

Assuming that both have the same hanger the inverted hollow's base is around 16g lighter. Price difference is way heavier.

[The real veganshawn]

Set up my base plates last night, excited to try them out today

[Bongwater Mojito]

I'm close to pull the trigger for baseplates. However, according to Mesa site both regular and inverted AF1 have same height top bushings:

Top Bushing: 12mm tall | 94a hardness
Bottom Bushing: Bottom 14mm tall | 86a hardness

Top Bushing: 12mm tall | 91a hardness
Bottom Bushing: Bottom 14mm tall | 86a hardness

Is that correct information? Some people in this thread mentioned inverted having 9mm top bushings.

In any case it seems switching to Ace hard bottom bushing would make inverteds to have full hard set of bushings.

[Roisto]

Total gear nerdery: according to info given by tactics the weight of inverted hollow vs. 'normal' hollow AF1s is

for                                               44           55
Weight (g) inverted hollow:       352.0    361.0     
Weight (g) 'normal' hollow:       369.4    376.91

Assuming that both have the same hanger the inverted hollow's base is around 16g lighter. Price difference is way heavier.

Damn. Even lighter than the hollows? I don’t have that much control. I prefer the regular AF1 over the hollow because they let my old ass be more sloppy but I want the inverted kingpin for better grind clearance. Do I have to start widening my wheelbase even more or learn to be more precise? 

[tzhangdox]

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Total gear nerdery: according to info given by tactics the weight of inverted hollow vs. 'normal' hollow AF1s is

for                                               44           55
Weight (g) inverted hollow:       352.0    361.0     
Weight (g) 'normal' hollow:       369.4    376.91

Assuming that both have the same hanger the inverted hollow's base is around 16g lighter. Price difference is way heavier.

[close]

Damn. Even lighter than the hollows? I don’t have that much control. I prefer the regular AF1 over the hollow because they let my old ass be more sloppy but I want the inverted kingpin for better grind clearance. Do I have to start widening my wheelbase even more or learn to be more precise? 

Is shaving couple grams off each truck is really going to ruin your precision

[DERBY]

T2? AF1 INVERTED? WHICH DO I GO WITH?



i went with the af1

[Xen]

I'm close to pull the trigger for baseplates. However, according to Mesa site both regular and inverted AF1 have same height top bushings:

Expand Quote

Top Bushing: 12mm tall | 94a hardness
Bottom Bushing: Bottom 14mm tall | 86a hardness

[close]

Is that correct information? Some people in this thread mentioned inverted having 9mm top bushings.

In any case it seems switching to Ace hard bottom bushing would make inverteds to have full hard set of bushings.

It's def lower than the 12mm top AF1 ACE hard/stock bushings I have on hand; mesa web dudes being lazy with those cut and paste specs. It's also [supposedly] not the same shape or height as the regular AF1 low bushing (10mm) as it has more taper to allow for a smaller radius at the top to better fit under the washer I assume.

Two sessions in and no ripped pivots at stock tightness (I think I could use one or two clicks tighter but breaking them in); FWIW, I had cup ripping issues at launch of the AF1 due to poor pivot machining, you could clearly see the pivot had sharp edges that were shredding the cups (been off ACE since they replaced them with a set of lows that I sold off).

[Roisto]

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Expand Quote

Total gear nerdery: according to info given by tactics the weight of inverted hollow vs. 'normal' hollow AF1s is

for                                               44           55
Weight (g) inverted hollow:       352.0    361.0     
Weight (g) 'normal' hollow:       369.4    376.91

Assuming that both have the same hanger the inverted hollow's base is around 16g lighter. Price difference is way heavier.

[close]

Damn. Even lighter than the hollows? I don’t have that much control. I prefer the regular AF1 over the hollow because they let my old ass be more sloppy but I want the inverted kingpin for better grind clearance. Do I have to start widening my wheelbase even more or learn to be more precise? 

[close]

Is shaving couple grams off each truck is really going to ruin your precision

I have no precision, that’s why I like heavier trucks. I tried the AF1 60 hollows at some point on a deck that felt too big and burly for me and it felt so off having to be more precise with popping that I took them off after two sessions and sold them to a friend. Put the standards back on and had a much better time. Just didn’t like the deck that much. Could I have gotten used to the lighter trucks, I don’t know. Maybe. It just didn’t feel worth it and I didn’t feel like I was getting any benefits from them. According to Tactics, the 55 inverted are 40.8 grams lighter per truck than the standard. I’d say that’s more than a few grams.

I like a hefty pop feel. Really like how Ventures pop. On standard Ace AF1 I like 14.75” wheelbases partly due to the pop being heftier than on 14.5” for example.

I also tried Thunder titaniums ages ago when recovering from a broken leg and having very little strength. I figured a lighter set up would help. Those trucks were crazy light. I felt like you’d need the pop precision equivalent to a brain surgeons hand precision.

So, yeah, I am concerned, but let’s see. I really want that inverted kingpin.

[Bongwater Mojito]

According to Tactics, the 55 inverted are 40.8 grams lighter per truck than the standard. I’d say that’s more than a few grams.

I guess adding old hollow hangers to inverted baseplate makes them still few grams lighter, isn't the new axle only partially hollow? That would be near my comfort zone - standard AF1s feel bit heavy, hollows are better.

[Sloppy Krooks]

So I picked up a set, and now I’m thinking if I should just run the inverted on just the rear truck..

Apart from a small weight imbalance, is there a good reason to run inverted on both trucks?

I’m not doing a whole lot of switch smiths.

[Mbrimson88]

So I picked up a set, and now I’m thinking if I should just run the inverted on just the rear truck..

Apart from a small weight imbalance, is there a good reason to run inverted on both trucks?

I’m not doing a whole lot of switch smiths.

I think most people will do both just for the look of the thing and to keep them even, but really there are any number of good reasons to just run the back truck, as per some people I know who would always get the back truck to axle but the front would be barely touched, so it makes sense they put them on the back, especially when the cost of the inverted baseplates alone is so much more.

I did a DIY inverted kingpin on my back truck not too long ago, mainly because the normal kingpin was loose, but I also wanted to see what it was like - yes it works and I have no problems with hang ups and don't even think about the difference with inverted on the back and regular on the front truck.

With the set of Ace inverted kingpins, you could set up two boards both with back inverted only, so that would save on costs right there, or keep one as a spare in case something happened to the first one on your board.


* Also for reference, Lance Mountain said in a recent interview that he now rides inverted on the back only as he hung up on a feeble grind (I think) and broke his arm or something like that, so only needs that clearance on the back truck, not the front.

https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/lance-mountain-limited-edition-ransom-box-set-skateboard-trucks-independent

His pro set actually has one regular and one inverted too.  Never knew that when I saw them come out, as I never saw them in person either, but that is pretty cool to see, although I am sure some OCD would be triggered by those sets.

[Sloppy Krooks]

Expand Quote

So I picked up a set, and now I’m thinking if I should just run the inverted on just the rear truck..

Apart from a small weight imbalance, is there a good reason to run inverted on both trucks?

I’m not doing a whole lot of switch smiths.

[close]

I think most people will do both just for the look of the thing and to keep them even, but really there are any number of good reasons to just run the back truck, as per some people I know who would always get the back truck to axle but the front would be barely touched, so it makes sense they put them on the back, especially when the cost of the inverted baseplates alone is so much more.

I did a DIY inverted kingpin on my back truck not too long ago, mainly because the normal kingpin was loose, but I also wanted to see what it was like - yes it works and I have no problems with hang ups and don't even think about the difference with inverted on the back and regular on the front truck.

With the set of Ace inverted kingpins, you could set up two boards both with back inverted only, so that would save on costs right there, or keep one as a spare in case something happened to the first one on your board.


* Also for reference, Lance Mountain said in a recent interview that he now rides inverted on the back only as he hung up on a feeble grind (I think) and broke his arm or something like that, so only needs that clearance on the back truck, not the front.

https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/lance-mountain-limited-edition-ransom-box-set-skateboard-trucks-independent

His pro set actually has one regular and one inverted too.  Never knew that when I saw them come out, as I never saw them in person either, but that is pretty cool to see, although I am sure some OCD would be triggered by those sets.

Thanks for the background! Glad to know Im not alone in wondering it.

I used to rotate trucks too as the rear got worn down, but as long as the front board kingpin isn’t too beat, I can rotate hangers with just the inverted in the back and get a bit more life out of them.

[BartHarleyJarvis]

Just got my inverted baseplates so I decided to do a little write up as I swapped em. They're definitely a different cast compared to my AF1s, the material even has a bit of a rawer finish similar to the new royal trucks (though not as noticeable). They measured lighter than my original baseplates as well.







The barrel bushing was the same height (aside from some minor compression) but the conical bushing is noticeably shorter. Sort of hard to tell with the washer there but I only have so many hands.




The new kingpin does seem pretty robust with nice sharp threads. I will say that the "Click" when adjusting the kingpin is *really* satisfying. The little magnetic tool they provide also feels really satisfying in a skate tool. Even though the goal for most skaters is (I think) to never adjust their trucks, Ace made it feel really nice when you do.




After the swap, my trucks dropped about 10g. There is a *ton* of clearance too, noticeably more than the DIY swap I did with the Slappy IKPs.






The only concern I have is the bushings felt really hard but I'm guessing they will break in nicely. Not having a kingpin nut makes it hard to find a "zero adjustment" point like you can with standard kingpin. I basically tightened the IKP until the bushings didn't have any play and I'll go from there. Will report back after I have an opportunity to skate them, I'm going to swap them in for my Lurpivs on my main setup.

[Xen]

^^ RE: 'zero point' since you took them apart, put them back together and A) count clicks until the slack is gone and B) count clicks per truck until you find the sweet spot? (for ref I just counted threads when they were stock before I put them on).

I've left mine stock and yet to tighten, might not even bother they feel so good; not even remotley hard for my weight. They sure a hell feel better out of the gate that those T2 bushings that's for damn sure.

[Meathook]

Just got my inverted baseplates so I decided to do a little write up as I swapped em. They're definitely a different cast compared to my AF1s, the material even has a bit of a rawer finish similar to the new royal trucks (though not as noticeable). They measured lighter than my original baseplates as well.







The barrel bushing was the same height (aside from some minor compression) but the conical bushing is noticeably shorter. Sort of hard to tell with the washer there but I only have so many hands.




The new kingpin does seem pretty robust with nice sharp threads. I will say that the "Click" when adjusting the kingpin is *really* satisfying. The little magnetic tool they provide also feels really satisfying in a skate tool. Even though the goal for most skaters is (I think) to never adjust their trucks, Ace made it feel really nice when you do.




After the swap, my trucks dropped about 10g. There is a *ton* of clearance too, noticeably more than the DIY swap I did with the Slappy IKPs.






The only concern I have is the bushings felt really hard but I'm guessing they will break in nicely. Not having a kingpin nut makes it hard to find a "zero adjustment" point like you can with standard kingpin. I basically tightened the IKP until the bushings didn't have any play and I'll go from there. Will report back after I have an opportunity to skate them, I'm going to swap them in for my Lurpivs on my main setup.

Thank you for the accurate write up and the photos!

One thing I really like (amongst everything else tech in this truck) is that the top of the kingpin has the ace logo.  I know the system is designed to not loosen but to be able to compare the logo location before/after a session gives an indicator whether it’s moving or not without having to take truck off.

[tuesday]

BartHarleyJarvis thanks for the pics and the details! Gnars all around.

[Bongwater Mojito]

Just got my inverted baseplates so I decided to do a little write up as I swapped em. They're definitely a different cast compared to my AF1s, the material even has a bit of a rawer finish similar to the new royal trucks (though not as noticeable). They measured lighter than my original baseplates as well.







The barrel bushing was the same height (aside from some minor compression) but the conical bushing is noticeably shorter. Sort of hard to tell with the washer there but I only have so many hands.




The new kingpin does seem pretty robust with nice sharp threads. I will say that the "Click" when adjusting the kingpin is *really* satisfying. The little magnetic tool they provide also feels really satisfying in a skate tool. Even though the goal for most skaters is (I think) to never adjust their trucks, Ace made it feel really nice when you do.




After the swap, my trucks dropped about 10g. There is a *ton* of clearance too, noticeably more than the DIY swap I did with the Slappy IKPs.






The only concern I have is the bushings felt really hard but I'm guessing they will break in nicely. Not having a kingpin nut makes it hard to find a "zero adjustment" point like you can with standard kingpin. I basically tightened the IKP until the bushings didn't have any play and I'll go from there. Will report back after I have an opportunity to skate them, I'm going to swap them in for my Lurpivs on my main setup.

Thanks a lot!!

My inverted baseplates are in transit and it sounds like once they're delivered I'd just swap in hard bottom bushing and then count clicks to get both trucks similarly tightened. Expectations are rising high...

[DERBY]

Just came across an ad of indy tryna promote their inverted kingpin. i find it hard to support a company that rubs off deranged ex vibes. this isnt the first time either. And look i get it ace based their designs of em but seriously get over it

[Roisto]

Just got my inverted baseplates so I decided to do a little write up as I swapped em. They're definitely a different cast compared to my AF1s, the material even has a bit of a rawer finish similar to the new royal trucks (though not as noticeable). They measured lighter than my original baseplates as well.







The barrel bushing was the same height (aside from some minor compression) but the conical bushing is noticeably shorter. Sort of hard to tell with the washer there but I only have so many hands.




The new kingpin does seem pretty robust with nice sharp threads. I will say that the "Click" when adjusting the kingpin is *really* satisfying. The little magnetic tool they provide also feels really satisfying in a skate tool. Even though the goal for most skaters is (I think) to never adjust their trucks, Ace made it feel really nice when you do.




After the swap, my trucks dropped about 10g. There is a *ton* of clearance too, noticeably more than the DIY swap I did with the Slappy IKPs.






The only concern I have is the bushings felt really hard but I'm guessing they will break in nicely. Not having a kingpin nut makes it hard to find a "zero adjustment" point like you can with standard kingpin. I basically tightened the IKP until the bushings didn't have any play and I'll go from there. Will report back after I have an opportunity to skate them, I'm going to swap them in for my Lurpivs on my main setup.

Thank you! 10 grams per truck isn’t that much.

I hope they sell just the baseplates in shops here in Europe. I asked my local but they had no idea what is coming in and when.

Ace webshop seems to work in Europe now as well. Already available there. 70€ for two baseplates and 105€ for two trucks. 15€ shipping. I’d rather save the 35€ on the hangers and 15€ on shipping and support the local shop as I’ve got quite a few sets of AF1s around.

Really excited for these now and not so concerned anymore. 

[Mongo Lloyd]

I haven’t skated Ace for some time, but I wanted to send some love to Bart who’s a true G.

[SwitchBenihana]

I checked out some plates this weekend and looks as if Ace bonded and pressed an expansion sleeve in. The expansion happens as soon as the bolt is tightened and there is enough room so it never fully expands. The expansion provides compression on the bolt and it makes backing out nearly impossible because any outward force on the system causes the sleeve to contract/get tighter. The ratcheting is a nice touch and I'm curious where Ace copied the idea from since similar systems are used in planes, RV/van builds, and bike headsets, and even some IKEA furniture.

Curious to see how long it takes for other companies to copy the design. The trucks look really well made in real life, but since I am still riding my T2 on my current travel setup I only have room for one piece of novel new gear at a time.

Wouldn't the new top bushing change the turn?

[Mbrimson88]

One thing I really like (amongst everything else tech in this truck) is that the top of the kingpin has the ace logo.  I know the system is designed to not loosen but to be able to compare the logo location before/after a session gives an indicator whether it’s moving or not without having to take truck off.

I never even thought of that with any other inverted kingpin - sure Grind King had the text round the head too, but until most of these current inverted options came out, I never really looked at them enough.

My set of used Thunders were loosening off themselves - I have a marker pen line to show where they are, but with the text round the head, that is a good way to see where they are at too.


Also really good to see so many pics and info about the Ace inverted trucks.

Thanks for posting this up.

Wouldn't the new top bushing change the turn?

From riding a lot of low top bushings, either the Indy aftermarket low options, or just cutting them down, as long as the bottom bushing is still the same, they will still turn the same way, but it then depends on the hanger shape or even the size or depth of the top washer, whether it allows the truck to turn fully or the washer touches the hanger and stops the turn at some point.

I am used to it, don't really have any issues, but I think some other people can feel it and maybe don't like it.  Maybe recall you had said before you saw the gouge marks in your hangers from certain bushing / washer combos, or when you talked about the aftermarket Indy bushing washers.

Any which way, I think each truck could be a different scenario, so it is for Bart to skate them and then maybe get back to us with hanger pics, looking down from above, or anyone else who has them, or rides low tops.

The aftermarket top washers that come with Indy bushings are very shallow so they work well with the low tops, but other people ride flat top washers too, which have even less impact on the low bushing / hanger binding.

[bombsaway86]

Can anyone comment on how the new inverted bushings turn compared to regular AF1s?

[Sloppy Krooks]

Can anyone comment on how the new inverted bushings turn compared to regular AF1s?

So I’m starting to axle my back truck, but the kingpin nut is toast, so I swapped out the rear truck and put the old hanger on the new inverted baseplate.

I cranked it to a mid-tightness, and it worked great straight out of the gate. Nice rebound, very carvy. The old bushings were beat, the new ones feel good.
I wasn’t cranking them for flip tricks, it was mostly for transition and slappies. But after 20 min I didn’t notice anything.

I might give it an extra crank as the bushings compress, but I personally enjoyed them fresh.

And if depending on your type of skating, I recommend just running inverted on the rear truck.