Wheelbase on your trucks

[Roisto]

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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures

[close]

Agreed. This isn't relevant to what we are saying about WB distance, I think that would be more about the way geometry affects the feel of wheelbase.

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"bare 14.25" feel"

[close]

No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.

That's what I've been saying. I don't understand what he means as no measurement on the setups he mentions is 14.25" so why does he refer to different trucks pulling in and pushing out to that measurement? What would a 14.25" wb board be pushed out to with forged Ventures? How about with Aces? Would some trucks keep a 14.25" wheelbase at 14.25"? His logic with the numbers is lost on me.

[palelight]

understandable, ill just do my own measurements

Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.

[rocklobster]

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understandable, ill just do my own measurements

[close]

Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.

I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.

Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.

[palelight]

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understandable, ill just do my own measurements

[close]

Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.

[close]

I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.

Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.

It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.

[satan]

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understandable, ill just do my own measurements

[close]

Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.

[close]

I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.

Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.

[close]

It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.

Sorry if my attitude contributed to your burn out. I'm working on it..
I agree that there's some variables that make ultra precision difficult. More the bushings than the deck tho. But using jig would def make taking measurements easier, I hadn't thought of that. Could use a straight work bench, wood board, steel or aluminum strip/plate. Got a metal place by you that sells new and "used" metal?
Layout would be easy, center punch, a regular square and/or scribing compass would help. A good straight edge..
Sharpie is the poor man's dykem. And why would you wanna use it other than layout? Gonna plum bob and mark the plate?
Could drill holes the same size as the base plates and use larger diameter bolts. I'd want a smooth shank that fits snug for the least amount of slop. Could even hammer in short dowels if you can find the right size.

The slop I'd be worried about would be in the bushings.
Pivot cup wear could let the axles move down towards the deck and out towards the nose/tail, increasing wb slightly.
I've measured some new aftermarket bushings and most aren't the same height all the way around, varying by ~1mm. Just setting the bushings in differently should change the geo and axle position slightly. slightly..
Could do metal pucks? Stacked washers? Do we need to worry about the concentricity with the kingpin?

Maybe try to measure multiple new trucks of the same brand/size, then compare those results. Wouldn't have to do it for every brand.
If you've got a friendly local shop I think it'd be best if one person did as many of the measurements as possible.

[munchbox]

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understandable, ill just do my own measurements

[close]

Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.

[close]

I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.

Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.

[close]

It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.

[close]

Sorry if my attitude contributed to your burn out. I'm working on it..
I agree that there's some variables that make ultra precision difficult. More the bushings than the deck tho. But using jig would def make taking measurements easier, I hadn't thought of that. Could use a straight work bench, wood board, steel or aluminum strip/plate. Got a metal place by you that sells new and "used" metal?
Layout would be easy, center punch, a regular square and/or scribing compass would help. A good straight edge..
Sharpie is the poor man's dykem. And why would you wanna use it other than layout? Gonna plum bob and mark the plate?
Could drill holes the same size as the base plates and use larger diameter bolts. I'd want a smooth shank that fits snug for the least amount of slop. Could even hammer in short dowels if you can find the right size.

The slop I'd be worried about would be in the bushings.
Pivot cup wear could let the axles move down towards the deck and out towards the nose/tail, increasing wb slightly.
I've measured some new aftermarket bushings and most aren't the same height all the way around, varying by ~1mm. Just setting the bushings in differently should change the geo and axle position slightly. slightly..
Could do metal pucks? Stacked washers? Do we need to worry about the concentricity with the kingpin?

Maybe try to measure multiple new trucks of the same brand/size, then compare those results. Wouldn't have to do it for every brand.
If you've got a friendly local shop I think it'd be best if one person did as many of the measurements as possible.

would be nice if the manufacturers would have this info readily available to the public. they did the R&D so its not like they dont have the numbers. sure, not every customer gives a shit about the dimensions but they know we exist, and it takes nothing to put it on their website or packaging.

i know they make money off of our ignorance but i really wish there was a standard for these things.

[rocklobster]

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understandable, ill just do my own measurements

[close]

Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.

[close]

I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.

Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.

[close]

It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.

[close]

Sorry if my attitude contributed to your burn out. I'm working on it..
I agree that there's some variables that make ultra precision difficult. More the bushings than the deck tho. But using jig would def make taking measurements easier, I hadn't thought of that. Could use a straight work bench, wood board, steel or aluminum strip/plate. Got a metal place by you that sells new and "used" metal?
Layout would be easy, center punch, a regular square and/or scribing compass would help. A good straight edge..
Sharpie is the poor man's dykem. And why would you wanna use it other than layout? Gonna plum bob and mark the plate?
Could drill holes the same size as the base plates and use larger diameter bolts. I'd want a smooth shank that fits snug for the least amount of slop. Could even hammer in short dowels if you can find the right size.

The slop I'd be worried about would be in the bushings.
Pivot cup wear could let the axles move down towards the deck and out towards the nose/tail, increasing wb slightly.
I've measured some new aftermarket bushings and most aren't the same height all the way around, varying by ~1mm. Just setting the bushings in differently should change the geo and axle position slightly. slightly..
Could do metal pucks? Stacked washers? Do we need to worry about the concentricity with the kingpin?

Maybe try to measure multiple new trucks of the same brand/size, then compare those results. Wouldn't have to do it for every brand.
If you've got a friendly local shop I think it'd be best if one person did as many of the measurements as possible.

[close]

would be nice if the manufacturers would have this info readily available to the public. they did the R&D so its not like they dont have the numbers. sure, not every customer gives a shit about the dimensions but they know we exist, and it takes nothing to put it on their website or packaging.

i know they make money off of our ignorance but i really wish there was a standard for these things.

I think we are a tiny part of the entire skate community / industry who would scrutinize ever minute details of their setups. I assume most people at the skateshop probably only care about deck width, graphic and how good the trucks feel without digging too much into the why. We are a tiny segment of their target market for skate companies: ads, video parts and graphics on deck / wheels / trucks are probably the safe way to reach the larger skate community.

Every time I nerd out at the skate park about WB or truck height I get looks like I'm crazy and overthinking my gear and should just skate instead of obsessing over a couple of millimeters. I think brands / website may deliberately omit certain product information because giving customers too much information confuses them and delays their buying decision.

[texasplant]

Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[tzhangdox]

Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

[satan]

Drill press and machinists vice would let you skip layout stuff

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straightedge_and_compass_construction#Much_used_straightedge_and_compass_constructions
Might help with layout

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisection How-to make right angle with compass


Way more complicated than you need for a jig but a neat tool.
Jig could be 3" x 6" x 1/2" metal strip with 8 holes drilled in.
Iirc, bolt pattern is 2.125" x 1.625"

http://www.peterverdone.com/that-tool-youve-wanted-for-about-35-years/

[texasplant]

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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[close]

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.

[satan]

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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[close]

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

[close]

Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.

I think ppl have been saying forged lengthens the wb by about half that much
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged

[texasplant]

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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[close]

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

[close]

Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.

[close]

I think ppl have been saying forged lengthens the wb by about half that much
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged

Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.

[satan]

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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[close]

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

[close]

Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.

[close]

I think ppl have been saying forged lengthens the wb by about half that much
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged

[close]

Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.

Some info is on page 1 of this thread. Palelight has a post too but I don't have the link.
Chart is from skateboarding is my lifetime sport guy's blog
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview

[palelight]

Forged Indy and Venture lengthen the wheelbase. About an 1/8" for Indy and a 1/4" for Venture. I never measured Thunder forged as I've never owned any, so I can't help there.

[Firebert]

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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures

[close]

Agreed. This isn't relevant to what we are saying about WB distance, I think that would be more about the way geometry affects the feel of wheelbase.

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"bare 14.25" feel"

[close]

No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.

[close]

That's what I've been saying.

So you are confused by something that was not mentioned?

[Roisto]

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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures

[close]

Agreed. This isn't relevant to what we are saying about WB distance, I think that would be more about the way geometry affects the feel of wheelbase.

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"bare 14.25" feel"

[close]

No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.

[close]

That's what I've been saying.

[close]

So you are confused by something that was not mentioned?

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I don’t understand what he is saying. It does not make sense to me. I do not understand the logic. I have been repeatedly asking for a an explanation but I get snide remarks from you instead. This isn’t helpful to the discussion at all.

I understand that compared to Indy and Ace, Thunder and Venture push out the wheelbase and that compared to Thunder and Venture, Ace and Indy pull in the wheelbase. Simple. But how any of them pull it in or push it out to “to/at 14.25” compared to nothing I don’t understand and I feel it hasn’t been explained at all.

[satan]

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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[close]

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

[close]

Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.

[close]

I think ppl have been saying forged lengthens the wb by about half that much
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged

[close]

Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.

[close]

Some info is on page 1 of this thread. Palelight has a post too but I don't have the link.
Chart is from skateboarding is my lifetime sport guy's blog
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview

Apparently my memory is crapping out..
I rechecked my Stage 10-11 cast/forged plates, shape and holes match up almost perfect.
My Stage 8 is a lil off cuz the holes are offset to the side by ~1/16".

[texasplant]

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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter

[close]

I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.

[close]

Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.

[close]

I think ppl have been saying forged lengthens the wb by about half that much
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged

[close]

Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.

[close]

Some info is on page 1 of this thread. Palelight has a post too but I don't have the link.
Chart is from skateboarding is my lifetime sport guy's blog
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview

[close]

Apparently my memory is crapping out..
I rechecked my Stage 10-11 cast/forged plates, shape and holes match up almost perfect.
My Stage 8 is a lil off cuz the holes are offset to the side by ~1/16".

I actually ended up checking it as well and my holes line up also. Contrary to what was said earlier, I’m still finding forged plates to shorten wheelbase. I’m not sure why I’m seeing it differently to others but that’s my experience.

[palelight]

I actually ended up checking it as well and my holes line up also. Contrary to what was said earlier, I’m still finding forged plates to shorten wheelbase. I’m not sure why I’m seeing it differently to others but that’s my experience.

We're talking about Indy's right? Could you post some pics of the measurements? Very intrigued.

[AssFlea]

I understand the kingpin angle is going to be a challenge but manny tricks. Ibeen on ace for like 18 months Indy 11 from 2016 and thunder from 1992.

I want to know will i have issues with the Manny point or will it onltake a few days to normalize on ventures highs.

Im going to cut the top front bushing to make nose manny easier

[Firebert]

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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures

[close]

Agreed. This isn't relevant to what we are saying about WB distance, I think that would be more about the way geometry affects the feel of wheelbase.

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"bare 14.25" feel"

[close]

No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.

[close]

That's what I've been saying.

[close]

So you are confused by something that was not mentioned?

[close]

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I don’t understand what he is saying. It does not make sense to me. I do not understand the logic. I have been repeatedly asking for a an explanation but I get snide remarks from you instead. This isn’t helpful to the discussion at all.

I understand that compared to Indy and Ace, Thunder and Venture push out the wheelbase and that compared to Thunder and Venture, Ace and Indy pull in the wheelbase. Simple. But how any of them pull it in or push it out to “to/at 14.25” compared to nothing I don’t understand and I feel it hasn’t been explained at all.

I have just been trying to help, I just legitimately don't understand what you don't get.
Some of the things you typed out "bare 14.25" feel" weren't mentioned. So I don't know what you are referencing.

Point is this: say I like a 14.25" deck wb boards, just an opinion - now if a Thunder adds 1/4" more to the wheelbase than an Indy does, I would pair the thunders with a deck with a 14" wheelbase instead to get a similar feel to what I was used to. This is all he was saying.

[Fred Gerwer Frank Gall]

The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

[baustin]

The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.

[Firebert]

The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb

That would be a completely different study to figure out the effect truck geometry has on wheelbase "feel" and also completely subjective. For the purposes of measuring wheelbase, let's just assume the trucks don't turn. Otherwise there are too many variables, "yeah but tensor's are more stable, theeve's have an oval yoke, etc." This way we can have objective information, "+/- x.185" and not subjective information like "14.25" feel.

[palelight]

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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

[close]

Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.

Sage words here. People should listen to this. There's been a few pages here, and in the other trucks threads, about subbing out different trucks to get the same "feel" on different setups, it's straight up not going to work. At least beyond attaining a similar-ish true wheelbase measurement. If you break it into three things 1) truck's effect on wb, 2) how they turn/feel 3) how they pop, subbing one truck in place of another for a desired wheelbase is only going to satisfy one of those things, they're still going to feel absolutely fucked in how they pop and how they turn if you're used to a certain brand. Does not seem worth it. 

[weedgod94]

The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

If your skateboard is a lever, the center of your axle is the fulcrum point. The idea is that if you control for the other variables (truck height, wheel size, kick length, kick angle) you will get essentially the same pop feel from cast ventures on a 14" wb as you will from cast indys on a 14.25" wb.

[palelight]

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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

[close]

If your skateboard is a lever, the center of your axle is the fulcrum point. The idea is that if you control for the other variables (truck height, wheel size, kick length, kick angle) you will get essentially the same pop feel from cast ventures on a 14" wb as you will from cast indys on a 14.25" wb.

Theoretically that's sound, but I'd have to argue the idea of being able to control those variables (on the deck) down to the 1/16 of an inch and half a degree of angle isn't very realistic for most people. You'd have to be working pretty closely to whoever is pressing the deck, and even then the results aren't guaranteed.

[rocklobster]

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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...

[close]

Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.

[close]

Sage words here. People should listen to this. There's been a few pages here, and in the other trucks threads, about subbing out different trucks to get the same "feel" on different setups, it's straight up not going to work. At least beyond attaining a similar-ish true wheelbase measurement. If you break it into three things 1) truck's effect on wb, 2) how they turn/feel 3) how they pop, subbing one truck in place of another for a desired wheelbase is only going to satisfy one of those things, they're still going to feel absolutely fucked in how they pop and how they turn if you're used to a certain brand. Does not seem worth it.

Same, I'm telling myself to stick to 1 brand of trucks (Thunders ATM) and ride the hell out of them while keeping my deck size similar with as few variations as possible. I don't skate tranny so turn isn't as critical for me, but WB and pop feel are correlated, WB will affect the triangle of pop. There are way too many variables once I start mixing in deck sizes, wheels and risers which causes me to spend more time setting up boards than riding them.

But the moment I fuck up 1 setup and am not feeling it, I'm swapping it out in a heartbeat. Time is too scarce to waste on non-viable setups.

[Rollbrettfetischist]

I measured my 149Forged Hollow Titanium and they stretch your wheelbase about 3 inches. A few Months ago, i compared them with my sold 149 Standards on a same wheelbase deck, they lined up perfectly. Thunder Team +3,27.
My english is not that good, sorry.