Author Topic: Truck set-ups  (Read 1227499 times)

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Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11430 on: July 04, 2022, 04:48:23 PM »
Expand Quote
Pedro Barros claiming he is testing a new truck:

http://www.instagram.com/tv/CfgsyzqjR9T/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
[close]
Maybe forged mids?

Forged mids are already out doe.

j....soy.....

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11431 on: July 04, 2022, 05:05:32 PM »
Maybe they don’t have them in Brazil yet or he lives in an alternate universe where your board sponsor makes cologne…..

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11432 on: July 04, 2022, 05:15:23 PM »
Cut down 215s would mess with me, like I’d probably have to get them

Richard Skidder

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11433 on: July 04, 2022, 05:26:55 PM »
https://instagram.com/stories/blacklabelskates/2875155083807648468?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Looks like they're making 215 hangers in a slimmer size. Or perhaps this is the new Indy that may or may not be coming out, as we saw earlier in the thread with the dude skating street with this style hanger.

Here’s a couple of screenshots for a closer look

Plan9Customs

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11434 on: July 04, 2022, 05:33:38 PM »
I was going to say they were Ace but jahs on Indy now so looks like something’s in the works.

cucktard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11435 on: July 04, 2022, 05:44:09 PM »
Looks like they slimmed down the outside-facing hanger wings a-la ACE (or 215s) and beefed up the inside-facing areas.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:23:45 PM by cucktard »
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Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11436 on: July 04, 2022, 06:06:51 PM »
Looks like they skimmed down the outside-facing hanger wings a-la ACE (or 215s) and beefed up the inside-facing areas.

That they do!

GumOnMyGrip

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11437 on: July 04, 2022, 06:11:50 PM »
Ace copies early Indy, Indy copies Ace.  I’ll go back if they grind like Indy AND turn like the stage 5’s or whatever Ace based their design on…

Frank and Fred

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11438 on: July 04, 2022, 06:35:23 PM »
Ace copies early Indy, Indy copies Ace.  I’ll go back if they grind like Indy AND turn like the stage 5’s or whatever Ace based their design on…

Ace are based off Stage 3. I think. 215s and 109s kept a similar designs to early stages.

5s were the first stage to move away from the traditional hanger design to the hollow body.

Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11439 on: July 04, 2022, 07:20:58 PM »
Be great if they are based on 7 or 8 ish geo (which is what XI tried to get back too); If they could quicken up the turn a bit and drop some grams....

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11440 on: July 04, 2022, 07:31:28 PM »
Be great if they are based on 7 or 8 ish geo (which is what XI tried to get back too); If they could quicken up the turn a bit and drop some grams....

7/8’s are pretty legendary. They’d definitely need to tweak them, there was negative kingpin clearance (if I remember correctly).
I can’t remember the time frames for the stages…I had 9s, I think, in the very early 2000s (shit could been late 90s…), and bent the axle to an unusable degree, and a flatground ollie. I bought them because they looked sick, and it was either venture lo’s or Indy’s during that time. Stevie’s footage was the shit and I’d watch credo way too much. He was switching between indy and venture back then. Kinda rad. The only pro I can think of that has done that somewhat recently was when Puig would go back and forth between thunder and indy. Holy fuckinoff topic rambling.
The new Indy’s look cool.

Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11441 on: July 04, 2022, 07:45:56 PM »
Expand Quote
Be great if they are based on 7 or 8 ish geo (which is what XI tried to get back too); If they could quicken up the turn a bit and drop some grams....
[close]

7/8’s are pretty legendary. They’d definitely need to tweak them, there was negative kingpin clearance (if I remember correctly).
I can’t remember the time frames for the stages…I had 9s, I think, in the very early 2000s (shit could been late 90s…), and bent the axle to an unusable degree, and a flatground ollie. I bought them because they looked sick, and it was either venture lo’s or Indy’s during that time. Stevie’s footage was the shit and I’d watch credo way too much. He was switching between indy and venture back then. Kinda rad. The only pro I can think of that has done that somewhat recently was when Puig would go back and forth between thunder and indy. Holy fuckinoff topic rambling.
The new Indy’s look cool.

https://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2018/05/08/look-cult-independent-trucks/

Yup, 'standard' pin clearance back then (i.e., none); I'm probably wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the current mids have a lot in common with S8 - they say classic geo (but I still think they're just frankentrucking) but after putting the Mid hanger on a standard forged plate, there is for sure hanger geo differences going on.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11442 on: July 04, 2022, 07:47:30 PM »
Might be too much information (sorry) but I think this was from the Indy catalog page before it got pulled a while back - only put up info from Stage 7, but I can put up the rest too if anyone is interested:


STAGE  7 - 1993

6 HOLES: Implemented new hole pattern on base plate to reduce wear on bolts from nose and tail slides. Holes were set back on the baseplate, closer to the center of the board.

Thicker, sturdier pivot housing and reduced material on top of hanger to achieve a lighter weight

Introduced the 136mm truck February 1993

STAGE  8 - 1997

6 HOLES mounting base plate with cross logo added.

Introduced the 126mm truck (Duralites)

Reduced material on hanger wing to lighten up truck. Introduced new baseplate / kingpin design rendering inverted kingpin use impossible.

STAGE  9 - 2003

Introduced an all-new lighter weight hanger and base plate; designed to be rigid for performance and durability.

Added all-new, ultra durable 4140 chrome alloy steel axles

Reduced thread length on axle for tight bearing-to-axle fit and a faster, smoother ride

Precision drilled mounting, kingpin, and pivot holes to ride straight for improved performance

Same FAST-ACTION Independent Truck Co. geometry

- the first stage that was computer drafted.The truck ended up quite a bit lower.from 55mm to 53.5mm, totally altering the turn. It didn't help that the baseplates sucked too.Those things broke.

STAGE 10 - 2009

Returned to a beefed-up baseplate BUT the lower geometry remained and the trucks just didn't turn like old Indys, making many riders to look to past models to get the perfect turn.

STAGE 11 - 2012

“I wanted to get it back as close as possible to the Stage V to VII geometry,” return to the classic 55mm height and pivot and kingpin angles inspired by Stage V.


* 8.25 width truck 144s from 2017

* 215 discontinued and then re done around 2019 - 2020

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Frank and Fred

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11443 on: July 04, 2022, 07:56:31 PM »
If they want to compete with Ace's turn they might have to go back to Stage 3 geo.

The hollow body hanger (Stage 5 on) is a good design though. Be silly to move away from that completely just because of aesthetics. Surely, they could combine  stage 3 geo with a modern hanger?

Either way, stoked to see what Stage 12s might look and feel like.

Ok

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11444 on: July 04, 2022, 08:34:16 PM »
@Mbrimson88 thanks for the help!!

So I must have bent stage 8s…I remember being hyped on how they look before I broke them, black baseplates, raw hangers. I remember being excited to get the duralites because of a drake jones ad. Axle slip was a thing for most truck companies around this time.
Stage 9s had the messed up baseplate.
I prefer stage 10s…I liked them quite a bit, especially with a conical bottom bushing, the height just felt better.
I ‘hate’ on indy a bunch, mostly for the hellride stuff, but their product really is quality. Doesn’t tend to get me stoked, for whatever reason. The prototype truck definitely has something exciting about it tho.

Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11445 on: July 04, 2022, 09:42:12 PM »
Expand Quote
https://instagram.com/stories/blacklabelskates/2875155083807648468?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Looks like they're making 215 hangers in a slimmer size. Or perhaps this is the new Indy that may or may not be coming out, as we saw earlier in the thread with the dude skating street with this style hanger.
[close]

Here’s a couple of screenshots for a closer look


Let's take a moment to give a shout out for that bank to proper front rock, on a fucking bar, shall we?

Frank and Fred

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11446 on: July 04, 2022, 09:43:53 PM »
I'd like to but its #notdecked

Wafools

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11447 on: July 05, 2022, 10:23:16 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
https://instagram.com/stories/blacklabelskates/2875155083807648468?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Looks like they're making 215 hangers in a slimmer size. Or perhaps this is the new Indy that may or may not be coming out, as we saw earlier in the thread with the dude skating street with this style hanger.
[close]

Here’s a couple of screenshots for a closer look

[close]

Let's take a moment to give a shout out for that bank to proper front rock, on a fucking bar, shall we?


Also this from like 6 years ago. Dunno if it’s just a Frankenstein truck or what but 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ 


LebowskisRug

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11448 on: July 05, 2022, 12:24:43 PM »
Stage 7 and 8 had ass for kingpin clearance and turned meh compared to XI. I don't know why people long for them. I got a pair off Craigslist a few years back and after replacing the bushings and pivot cups they were still meh. I rode Mids after and they're an improvement IMO.

Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11449 on: July 05, 2022, 12:47:42 PM »
Stage 7 and 8 had ass for kingpin clearance and turned meh compared to XI. I don't know why people long for them. I got a pair off Craigslist a few years back and after replacing the bushings and pivot cups they were still meh. I rode Mids after and they're an improvement IMO.

You'd be right, except for the fact that the turn is more responsive on VII/VII than XI, i.e., faster. Not slow and drawn out like they are now, because they were still basing it off the 3-6 stages.....new geo didn't show up unto X supposedly.

That old geo you seem to hate is pretty much what ACE refined structurally and theeve uses...people hate on Theeve but they're they closest you get to older indy stages after 3-4.

I still feel the mids dip back prior to X/XI

« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 05:05:11 PM by Xen »

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11450 on: July 05, 2022, 02:03:42 PM »
So if Indy stage 12 is just gonna be an ace truck will there be any point in stage 12 existing? The only thing that would make me skate Indy instead of ace is for the different feeling. Seems like a bad move

Frank and Fred

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11451 on: July 05, 2022, 02:28:40 PM »
Stage 7 and 8 had ass for kingpin clearance and turned meh compared to XI. I don't know why people long for them. I got a pair off Craigslist a few years back and after replacing the bushings and pivot cups they were still meh. I rode Mids after and they're an improvement IMO.

B/c they work great with Krux DL kingpins... no need for any epoxy glue to hold the reverse kingpins in place. worse thing about stage 7 and 8s is the axle slip. I have a set of stage 11 hangers on stage 8 base plates with Krux kingpins... pretty damn nice set of trucks.

LebowskisRug

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11452 on: July 05, 2022, 05:44:54 PM »
Expand Quote
Stage 7 and 8 had ass for kingpin clearance and turned meh compared to XI. I don't know why people long for them. I got a pair off Craigslist a few years back and after replacing the bushings and pivot cups they were still meh. I rode Mids after and they're an improvement IMO.
[close]

You'd be right, except for the fact that the turn is more responsive on VII/VII than XI, i.e., faster. Not slow and drawn out like they are now, because they were still basing it off the 3-6 stages.....new geo didn't show up unto X supposedly.

That old geo you seem to hate is pretty what ACE refined structurally and theeve uses...people hate on Theeve but they're they closest you get to older indy stages after 3-4.

I still feel the mids dip back prior to X/XI

If we were to use letters as an analogy the VII felt like an upside down U and the XI like a /-\ sorta. But what I really thought felt weird was the pop feel. Ben Degros did a video on them and I agree that they felt fairly hefty with 53s on them.  It's possible I am just so used to XI that it was bound to fail. I was pretty careful to make sure the bushing sizes matched too and put in aftermarket oranges.

Maybe the older dudes just really liked that turn specifically and how it kinda tips hard. I can see preferring what ya know rather than what we have now.

The mid turn seemed a bit between the two for me. More like a subdued VIII like /0\ kind of shape if that makes sense. Honestly tho they're all find I could get used to them all if I wasn't being anal retentive about finding some optimal that doesn't exist.

LebowskisRug

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11453 on: July 05, 2022, 05:48:17 PM »
So if Indy stage 12 is just gonna be an ace truck will there be any point in stage 12 existing? The only thing that would make me skate Indy instead of ace is for the different feeling. Seems like a bad move

I really doubt Indy is going to put out an Ace/stage 3 copy. I do wonder if they might copy the Lurpiv flared yoke and geo more actually based on what people reported. The mid hanger looked a bit more Ace like to me with the shape of the large barrel and smaller yoke so I wonder if they're just going to copy that for more kingpin clearance and move yoke material accordingly since they won't need as much near the ends.

The turn seems universally loved I'd be surprised if they changed it all that much. I think they learned some lessons with stage IX and X and they're known for both grind and turn now why fuck it up again?

Plan9Customs

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11454 on: July 05, 2022, 05:59:30 PM »
Went back and looked at the pics posted. I’m putting money on cut down 215s. I’ll hit up Jah and see later.

Xen

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11455 on: July 05, 2022, 06:15:12 PM »
Expand Quote
So if Indy stage 12 is just gonna be an ace truck will there be any point in stage 12 existing? The only thing that would make me skate Indy instead of ace is for the different feeling. Seems like a bad move
[close]

I really doubt Indy is going to put out an Ace/stage 3 copy. I do wonder if they might copy the Lurpiv flared yoke and geo more actually based on what people reported. The mid hanger looked a bit more Ace like to me with the shape of the large barrel and smaller yoke so I wonder if they're just going to copy that for more kingpin clearance and move yoke material accordingly since they won't need as much near the ends.

The turn seems universally loved I'd be surprised if they changed it all that much. I think they learned some lessons with stage IX and X and they're known for both grind and turn now why fuck it up again?

The smaller mid yoke is def on par with ACE and the Indy 215 (even the 109 is a more svelt yoke). Soooo maybe they are just trying to shave off some weight? Nothing wrong with that. And if they tweak the existing geo just to make everything about it 'better' no harm. But I can't see them re-inventing the wheel when (you're right) SXI is universally loved. If it ain't broke...

They've got all their 'pieces' could cobble together a larger 109, a more reinforced 215 (if that is even an issue?)

tzhangdox

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11456 on: July 05, 2022, 11:53:54 PM »
Already posted in the ace thread, but anyone have any experience with replacing a top bushing with a lower one and grinding down the kingpin for more clearance?

Specifically I'm considering replacing the top ace hard bushing with a stock venture bushing (which is much shorter) and grinding down kingpin by a few threads so I hang up less on smith grinds etc.

In general what does a shorter top bushing do to the geometry? What differences in turn, response, pinch etc should I expect?

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11457 on: July 06, 2022, 06:20:07 AM »
Already posted in the ace thread, but anyone have any experience with replacing a top bushing with a lower one and grinding down the kingpin for more clearance?

Specifically I'm considering replacing the top ace hard bushing with a stock venture bushing (which is much shorter) and grinding down kingpin by a few threads so I hang up less on smith grinds etc.

In general what does a shorter top bushing do to the geometry? What differences in turn, response, pinch etc should I expect?

@Mbrimson88 has posted some tips, and links to ig videos.
I need to look those tips up, as I’ve been skating 5.2 lo’s and they do not have kingpin clearance.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11458 on: July 06, 2022, 07:34:22 AM »
Expand Quote
Already posted in the ace thread, but anyone have any experience with replacing a top bushing with a lower one and grinding down the kingpin for more clearance?

Specifically I'm considering replacing the top ace hard bushing with a stock venture bushing (which is much shorter) and grinding down kingpin by a few threads so I hang up less on smith grinds etc.

In general what does a shorter top bushing do to the geometry? What differences in turn, response, pinch etc should I expect?
[close]

@Mbrimson88 has posted some tips, and links to ig videos.
I need to look those tips up, as I’ve been skating 5.2 lo’s and they do not have kingpin clearance.


Ha yeah, I have done this to most of my setups now, but mainly to get more life out of older well worn trucks of any brand.

The two parts to note, both equally important:

1. Cutting the bushings down - easy enough to cut any and every bushing set, be it top or bottom, but I usually only cut tops, about 1-2 mm depending on what the need is and how much more turn is needed, or clearance is needed.  Yes I have cut some too short, which still work but definitely have a little too much top bushing washer touching hanger yoke.  For the most part, there is no change in geometry and how the truck performs to me, but get this right first (as per the cutting orange Indy bushings post below).  Sometimes having a go with some other bushings you don't really want is a good start, but you can always put the bit you have cut off back in and they will still work as usual on any other trucks.

2. Angle grinding off the kingpin needs to be done gently and I usually do a bit then check it, do a bit more, etc so you don't heat the kingpin too much which in turn will melt the bushings.  I usually set up a board and get the bushings how I like them first, really feel them out and make sure where the nut sits is good, then use the grinder to take the kingpin head down a little on one side, then the other, like that for a bit, or do front for a bit, then back for a bit, until you have them down nicely but not too far into where the nut sits unless you really need a lot more clearance, eg truck down to axle and almost no top bushing or nut remaining.  See the Real board post from the previous page, also included here.


I can still take the kingpin nut off easily when this is done, as well as adjust anything, but I use the grinder on the board with everything set up, so I can check and make sure the kingpin doesn't get cut too low, which has happened before.  I just used some really old squashed top bushings on it and they still worked fine, but it is not recommended, unless you have a lot of spare parts to play with.  Regular and hollow kingpins work the same way, no different in fixing them, grinding them down or anything else.


The other post I will include here is a few boards with some kingpin heads taken down, in particular the one with the blue bushings, which were the low head versions, as per the red ones I use in all my usual setups nowdays (also low heads, but I have on average cut down one to two sets of standard height bushings a week for people at the indoor park I am at as well).







« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 07:41:46 AM by Mbrimson88 »
I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Plan9Customs

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #11459 on: July 06, 2022, 05:19:58 PM »
Went back and looked at the pics posted. I’m putting money on cut down 215s. I’ll hit up Jah and see later.
Not cut down 215s.