Truck set-ups

[palelight]

It's not just wheelbase, though. Pretty sure in one of his vids he mentioned the importance of deck "finger space" being a major contributing factor to how trucks feel on a deck. Eg: if u pair a set of ventures (or whatever tucks that push out the axle placement more) on a deck with short finger space, then the resulting yield leverage would be way too much; offsetting any finesse you'd get out of your ride.

It's kinda tricky to figure out the right combinations sometimes. Some decks are more tailor made for certain trucks than others. I just wish there was an easier way to measure that space. Looking down at your fingers & trying to figure out how many you can fit doesn't feel very accurate.

I can totally back that such a measurement would have an affect on pop, timing, and overall feel (compounded by which brand of trucks you run). For sure. My only point of contention was about the deck wheelbase affecting the turn of specific truck brands, I just don't buy it, especially when he mentions like a 1/4" difference making Ventures feel 'turn-ier.' 

If you went to the extreme of throwing Ventures on a long board and then a penny board, then sure you're going to notice a massive difference in turning radius (an idiotic example I know), but I think saying a 14" wheelbase is the key to unlocking a more Indy like turn out of Ventures is bad info.

[j....soy.....]

I think ACE is the 'turniest' truck for the following reasons (in order of importance)

1) geometry
2) height
3) how they shrink the wheel base

It definitely affects things but it's further down the list.

[Xen]

Whoever has used the Krux kingpins in Thunder teams, do you find the Krux bushings allow the truck to turn the same as if it were stock? Or does it mellow out the turn? I want to make sure they turn as close to Ace as possible, so if I gotta use thunder bushings with the Krux pin I will, just wanna make sure it’ll all fit proper.

I tried thunders with barrels twice, it sucked (once with Krux pins).

Thunders will never turn 'as close as possible' to ACEs. If you want thunders to get turny, keep the bottom stock and sand down the top busing or throw in a soft, lo bushing or throw in bones softs and get ready for wheelbite!

[Sativa Lung]

I can totally back that such a measurement would have an affect on pop, timing, and overall feel (compounded by which brand of trucks you run). For sure. My only point of contention was about the deck wheelbase affecting the turn of specific truck brands, I just don't buy it, especially when he mentions like a 1/4" difference making Ventures feel 'turn-ier.' 

If you went to the extreme of throwing Ventures on a long board and then a penny board, then sure you're going to notice a massive difference in turning radius (an idiotic example I know), but I think saying a 14" wheelbase is the key to unlocking a more Indy like turn out of Ventures is bad info.

I agree with you to a point. Theres always an inherent inaccuracy when you're measuring anything in terms of an abstract concept like "feel", not to mention the fact that placebo probably plays some role, but think about how massively different 1/4" feels with regards to deck width. It's all relative to preference and what you're used to, so obviously saying "ride x wheelbase to make y feel like z" is going to mean something different to everyone, but with how much minuscule variations can alter other board characteristics I think there's probably at least a degree of validity to it. For you or I the change might be completely imperceptible, but for others it might not. Even if we were to mathematically measure overall turn from point A to point B as being identical with two different setups, you're still using an abstract measurement so it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to feel identical to everyone.

[oldbummer]

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Unless you're looking for a super surfy, ace-y feel (which you might be), i don't think Ben's WB point is as dramatic as it might seem. However i think he said it best when he said it really depends on what truck you're looking for venture to replace.

At least speaking for the timing/pop, 14.38 with the ventures feels on par or better than with my indys. i'm 3 inches shorter than you, and so far it's felt like i have way less potential for airfeet on something like ollies/nollies into grinds because i can fully extend my ollie/nollie.

i have them at factory setting, and i do think the bushings have to break in a bit more before i can fully co-sign them. but if these are anything like indys, after the first week everything settles and breaks in a little more... that's usually when i do a tighten on each truck to make them feel right. so in this case it should just naturally feel ok.

plus, thinking back... i always remember ishod running thunder 149s with the deluxe 8.25 shape.... that's the same thing. and he's the same if not shorter than you

[close]

This. I usually really like what he has to say about things. Goes in depth without going full tinfoil-hat, but this point in the video was pretty off. WB to the degree of +/- a half inch can have a pretty massive effect on your comfortability on a board, but is going to have pretty much no impact on how a truck functions. Putting Ventures on a 13.5" wheelbase won't suddenly make them Aces, nor putting Aces on a 15.5" wb make them feel like Ventures.

[close]

It's not just wheelbase, though. Pretty sure in one of his vids he mentioned the importance of deck "finger space" being a major contributing factor to how trucks feel on a deck. Eg: if u pair a set of ventures (or whatever tucks that push out the axle placement more) on a deck with short finger space, then the resulting yield leverage would be way too much; offsetting any finesse you'd get out of your ride.

It's kinda tricky to figure out the right combinations sometimes. Some decks are more tailor made for certain trucks than others. I just wish there was an easier way to measure that space. Looking down at your fingers & trying to figure out how many you can fit doesn't feel very accurate.

Industry would never go for that because when you press multiple boards at the same time they will have different fingers of flat depending on where they are in the stack.  Powell is the only company that presses one board at a time I believe.

[ballintoohard]

Today I took my old 35th North deck that I thought was clapped out and put my 149 Forged Hollows back on. I had been riding it with Thunder Ti Lite 148's and before that had a few with Indies and Ventures. Aftermarket cylinder bushings, nut tightened 1/2 turn from finger tight. I almost ate shit on the first push the trucks were so much looser, but after a block and a hill bomb it was super familiar. Then had one of my best mornings of skating ever despite shit tons of wheelbite. It seems I can roll out of it fine with them.

[drewbearz]

I'm riding stock 144 stage 11 indy's right now. Honestly wonderful, but they kind of leave me wanting more

I tried to switch out the bushings to the medium hard conicals though and I immediately swapped them back for the stock bushings. They felt so unstable.

Not loose, not wobbly, just unstable. I'm thinking that the medium hard's are too hard for the conical design and that I'd actually be more stable with softer conical bushings. Who the fuck knows though.

Does anyone even skate destructos anymore? I remember having the red and gold "obey" branded destructos. (I was such an edgelord back in the day) and while they looked lame as fuck(in hindsight), they actually rode halfway decent.

[Mesteezo]

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Unless you're looking for a super surfy, ace-y feel (which you might be), i don't think Ben's WB point is as dramatic as it might seem. However i think he said it best when he said it really depends on what truck you're looking for venture to replace.

At least speaking for the timing/pop, 14.38 with the ventures feels on par or better than with my indys. i'm 3 inches shorter than you, and so far it's felt like i have way less potential for airfeet on something like ollies/nollies into grinds because i can fully extend my ollie/nollie.

i have them at factory setting, and i do think the bushings have to break in a bit more before i can fully co-sign them. but if these are anything like indys, after the first week everything settles and breaks in a little more... that's usually when i do a tighten on each truck to make them feel right. so in this case it should just naturally feel ok.

plus, thinking back... i always remember ishod running thunder 149s with the deluxe 8.25 shape.... that's the same thing. and he's the same if not shorter than you

[close]

This. I usually really like what he has to say about things. Goes in depth without going full tinfoil-hat, but this point in the video was pretty off. WB to the degree of +/- a half inch can have a pretty massive effect on your comfortability on a board, but is going to have pretty much no impact on how a truck functions. Putting Ventures on a 13.5" wheelbase won't suddenly make them Aces, nor putting Aces on a 15.5" wb make them feel like Ventures.

[close]

It's not just wheelbase, though. Pretty sure in one of his vids he mentioned the importance of deck "finger space" being a major contributing factor to how trucks feel on a deck. Eg: if u pair a set of ventures (or whatever tucks that push out the axle placement more) on a deck with short finger space, then the resulting yield leverage would be way too much; offsetting any finesse you'd get out of your ride.

It's kinda tricky to figure out the right combinations sometimes. Some decks are more tailor made for certain trucks than others. I just wish there was an easier way to measure that space. Looking down at your fingers & trying to figure out how many you can fit doesn't feel very accurate.

[close]

Industry would never go for that because when you press multiple boards at the same time they will have different fingers of flat depending on where they are in the stack.  Powell is the only company that presses one board at a time I believe.

Dwindle does 1 deck at a time

[tangar]

I agree with you to a point. Theres always an inherent inaccuracy when you're measuring anything in terms of an abstract concept like "feel", not to mention the fact that placebo probably plays some role, but think about how massively different 1/4" feels with regards to deck width. It's all relative to preference and what you're used to, so obviously saying "ride x wheelbase to make y feel like z" is going to mean something different to everyone, but with how much minuscule variations can alter other board characteristics I think there's probably at least a degree of validity to it. For you or I the change might be completely imperceptible, but for others it might not. Even if we were to mathematically measure overall turn from point A to point B as being identical with two different setups, you're still using an abstract measurement so it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to feel identical to everyone.

That’s a great point for someone who did such a terrible grip job.

I switched over to bones hards in my 5.8 V-lights, the stocks blew out. At first they felt way too hard and the extra effort it took to get a quick turn sucked. But after two sessions they softened up enough and respond how I need them to now. They do feel more stable than just with stocks but not in a bad way at all. I ran and threw my board down for a small euro gap and got no twitch at all, it was almost weird to have that much control haha.

[Sativa Lung]

That’s a great point for someone who did such a terrible grip job.

I switched over to bones hards in my 5.8 V-lights, the stocks blew out. At first they felt way too hard and the extra effort it took to get a quick turn sucked. But after two sessions they softened up enough and respond how I need them to now. They do feel more stable than just with stocks but not in a bad way at all. I ran and threw my board down for a small euro gap and got no twitch at all, it was almost weird to have that much control haha.

I had a pair of dusty kitchen scissors and a fucking scalpel that I had already dulled doing another hack-ass grip job! I might as well have been tearing it with my teeth. I keep meaning to steal a new utility knife from work but forgetting.

Did you get the white or the black ones? I still have no idea if there's even a difference and this is probably all in my head anyways, but the white seemed a little harder out of the box/didnt break in as easily as the blacks. I initially started skating them because my balance was so shit when I started again but I still use them on some setups because that stability and control is really useful in certain situations (theres a reason freestyle guys all use super hard bushings) and they don't affect the actual turning ability as much as I thought they would. The feel is definitely different but I havent really run into any situations where I thought I could make a turn on softer bushings but not the bones hards.  I also like the fact that I feel more comfortable going fast and that I can dig my heels in hard on slides. I really like them in Thunders, not so much in Indys, and I've never actually tried them in Ventures but your post makes me curious so I'm going to set some up right now.

Did any of you faithful venture guys notice a change in the stock bushing quality at some point? My older red stock ones are some of my favorite bushings period. They're firm without being too hard and seem to be in my sweetspot but I tried the white ones from a newer 5.2 and was kind of disappointed that they felt way softer. Almost like the stock indy bushings actually. I want to get a set of the 5.8 V-Hollows but the only ones I can find are the Prod ones and I just don't know if I can bring myself to buy something with that fucking 80's trans-am hood graphic on it. If anyone knows where to get a pair of just regular polished please let me know.

[SkinSideDown]

Find a truck that works with your wheelbase. Indy, Ace and Thunder. End of story

[j....soy.....]

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Whoever has used the Krux kingpins in Thunder teams, do you find the Krux bushings allow the truck to turn the same as if it were stock? Or does it mellow out the turn? I want to make sure they turn as close to Ace as possible, so if I gotta use thunder bushings with the Krux pin I will, just wanna make sure it’ll all fit proper.

[close]

I tried thunders with barrels twice, it sucked (once with Krux pins).

Thunders will never turn 'as close as possible' to ACEs. If you want thunders to get turny, keep the bottom stock and sand down the top busing or throw in a soft, lo bushing or throw in bones softs and get ready for wheelbite!

I put the krux k/p's in my thunder w. Thunder bushings and they felt like thunders....

I've got the krux k/p's in my ACEs with Indy bushings and they feel like ACES with Indy bushings...

Maybe Theeves are the closest turn to an ACE? 

[Sativa Lung]

Find a truck that works with your wheelbase. Indy, Ace and Thunder. End of story

You're in the wrong place son. We don't take too kindly to folks like you round these parts.

[SkinSideDown]

149 Forged Indys with Bones hard. 14.25 wheelbase deck . tried and trued 👌

[Xen]

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Whoever has used the Krux kingpins in Thunder teams, do you find the Krux bushings allow the truck to turn the same as if it were stock? Or does it mellow out the turn? I want to make sure they turn as close to Ace as possible, so if I gotta use thunder bushings with the Krux pin I will, just wanna make sure it’ll all fit proper.

[close]

I tried thunders with barrels twice, it sucked (once with Krux pins).

Thunders will never turn 'as close as possible' to ACEs. If you want thunders to get turny, keep the bottom stock and sand down the top busing or throw in a soft, lo bushing or throw in bones softs and get ready for wheelbite!

[close]

I put the krux k/p's in my thunder w. Thunder bushings and they felt like thunders....

I've got the krux k/p's in my ACEs with Indy bushings and they feel like ACES with Indy bushings...

Maybe Theeves are the closest turn to an ACE?

Krux pins in Cast thunder plates were fine for me, with conical bushings, with barrels they just lost their thunder.

Now that Ace perfected their bushings for their truck (I've tried them in: ML, Thunder, Venture, Indy, Theeve and ACE); they work the best in ACE, hands down; great in indy (better than indy bushings) and great in ML (ML stocks are pretty hard if you get the white bushings, they're 94d). I did not like them in Ventures, thunders or theeves.

Theeves are the closest you'll get to ACE for sure, with the right conicals.

Currently riding Ventures with Bones softs top and bottom.

[Nollie FS 180]

Should I get new trucks soon? My Indy’s pivot cup is cracked, it hasn’t changed how it felt but meh I’ve grinder them down enough to feel satisfied.

[ballintoohard]

It's sad that the DLX hype machine is convincing people something they shat on for a decade is now THE best option in the game.

[Dog the Bounty Hunter]

It's sad that the DLX hype machine is convincing people something they shat on for a decade is now THE best option in the game.

You bought in to it 🤷‍♂️ You’re just salty you’re out $40 because you can’t figure out how to fucking turn.

[Xen]

It's sad that the DLX hype machine is convincing people something they shat on for a decade is now THE best option in the game.

Clearly this forum isn't thinking their the best option but the hype is real.

Hell, I bought into it because they FINALLY made some hollow/tis in something larger than an 8" - still surprised they didn't do any 8.25" forged hollow/ti yet when with an 8.5" version (and in fucking guido gold).

[oldbummer]

Kader just posted an 8.25 deck with Ventures

[texasplant]

Kader just posted an 8.25 deck with Ventures

I thought he had shrunk his board by a bit. Weird considering he skates for Indy but he’s basically been skating every brand anyways the whole time

[I AM]

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Good pivot cups are a thing too, almost as essential as good bushings, just put some white minilogo ones on my 149mm, they seem better quality than Indy aftermarket ones and more responsive, less dead plastic feeling

[close]

Any thoughts/exp on that ?

DO NOT BUY MINILOGO PIVOT CUPS. THEY ARE STRAIGHT UP HARD ASS PLASTIC (NOT URETHANE) AND THEY DEFORM AND BREAK WITHIN A DAY OF SKATING. ALSO INDY AFTERMARKET CUPS SUCK DICK. THEYRE REALLY CREAKY AND START STRETCHING AROUND THE HANGER UNTIL A HOLE DEVELOPS AFTER ABOUT A WEEK OF SKATING. THIS HAPPENS NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF BUSHING SETUP YOU HAVE. JUST KEEP USING THE “SHITTY” STOCK ONES UNTIL THEY ARE UNRIDEABLE (*IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO GREASE/LUBE BEFORE RIDING) (LOL) AND THEN TRY TO GET NON BRANDED PIVOT CUPS IF YOUR LOCAL SHOP SELLS THEM. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SPEND MORE THAN A DOLLAR OR TWO FOR PIVOT CUPS, AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BUYING THEM IF YOU DONT ABSOLUTELY NEED NEW ONES.

[I AM]

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Yeah Indy’s sell the most cause of that golden slogan “ride the best” And “preferred by the pros” but I feel thunders give the best performance and feel, you know ??

[close]

Everybody knows that "Ride the best" and “preferred by the pros” are just lies to sell. However I have experienced that "loose trucks save lives" is absolutely true in practice !

[close]

No doubt lies but hey the riders and the slogan definitely sell

Is drives the truck madness when your watching some grant Taylor or tony hawk and you just wanna run outside and get some air riding like them by riding what they ride

Which are Indy’s

But honestly, what’s best I’ve found out is

Ride what you think is the coolest brand and set them up/tune them to your preference

Or

Find the trucks that actually groove with your style and skating, if ventures help you land more flat ground and that’s what you like to skate then stick to them and everything else will come

We all wanna ride like our fav pros and have a similar setup so we can imagine now a 900 is easier but at the end of the day the set up that will keep you consistent is the ones above, either hyped and tuned or configured from the get go to your skating

unless you ride a walmart board, no board will stop you from landing tricks. i know that's not the point, but skateboarding is mostly about how you feel. the “best” setup changes every time you skate because of temperatures changing, different spots, different tricks etc. but if you're confident and committed enough, you're gonna make the trick anyway. i find that confidence isn't really a permanent thing though...but i guess that's why we always tinker with our setups, to hype ourselves up to actually go skate...which is kinda perverted since if you actually loved skating, you would just go skating and be happy.

[I AM]

is it just me that thinks indy stock bushings have better rebound than aftermarket ones? is there a company that makes bushings that feel exactly like stock indy bushings that last longer?

[Sativa Lung]

is it just me that thinks indy stock bushings have better rebound than aftermarket ones? is there a company that makes bushings that feel exactly like stock indy bushings that last longer?

Are you talking about the new stock bushings on the FH/Titaniums or the old ones on the standards? If you go back a few pages there was a discussion on the topic. I really enjoyed the new ones but I sent them to Rob so he could try them and give his thoughts. I'm currently searching for similar aftermarket bushings as well, I have an order for the indy blue 92a and hard luck 90a on the way and I'm planning on trying supercush and riptide next.

I liked riding doh doh blue barrels on the bottom and bones medium on top, but it does sacrifice some of the classic indy feel. I think Rob said he was doing something similar and had the same impression.

[I AM]

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is it just me that thinks indy stock bushings have better rebound than aftermarket ones? is there a company that makes bushings that feel exactly like stock indy bushings that last longer?

[close]

Are you talking about the new stock bushings on the FH/Titaniums or the old ones on the standards? If you go back a few pages there was a discussion on the topic. I really enjoyed the new ones but I sent them to Rob so he could try them and give his thoughts. I'm currently searching for similar aftermarket bushings as well, I have an order for the indy blue 92a and hard luck 90a on the way and I'm planning on trying supercush and riptide next.

I liked riding doh doh blue barrels on the bottom and bones medium on top, but it does sacrifice some of the classic indy feel. I think Rob said he was doing something similar and had the same impression.

im talking about the old ones. i like riding bushings without the top washer and old indy stock ones were perfect for this because they didn't create a crevice where the nut would go, they retained their original shape whereas with the aftermarket ones, you have to tighten the nut more and more each session because the nut would dig in and the bushing wouldn't rebound to it's original shape. have you noticed how “high rebound” bushings don't actually rebound to their original shapes? they always get like a millimeter shorter. infuriating.

[BMCsteve]

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Good pivot cups are a thing too, almost as essential as good bushings, just put some white minilogo ones on my 149mm, they seem better quality than Indy aftermarket ones and more responsive, less dead plastic feeling

[close]

Any thoughts/exp on that ?

[close]

DO NOT BUY MINILOGO PIVOT CUPS. THEY ARE STRAIGHT UP HARD ASS PLASTIC (NOT URETHANE) AND THEY DEFORM AND BREAK WITHIN A DAY OF SKATING. ALSO INDY AFTERMARKET CUPS SUCK DICK. THEYRE REALLY CREAKY AND START STRETCHING AROUND THE HANGER UNTIL A HOLE DEVELOPS AFTER ABOUT A WEEK OF SKATING. THIS HAPPENS NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF BUSHING SETUP YOU HAVE. JUST KEEP USING THE “SHITTY” STOCK ONES UNTIL THEY ARE UNRIDEABLE (*IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO GREASE/LUBE BEFORE RIDING) (LOL) AND THEN TRY TO GET NON BRANDED PIVOT CUPS IF YOUR LOCAL SHOP SELLS THEM. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SPEND MORE THAN A DOLLAR OR TWO FOR PIVOT CUPS, AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BUYING THEM IF YOU DONT ABSOLUTELY NEED NEW ONES.

Homie, why are you yelling?

[Diocletian]

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Whoever has used the Krux kingpins in Thunder teams, do you find the Krux bushings allow the truck to turn the same as if it were stock? Or does it mellow out the turn? I want to make sure they turn as close to Ace as possible, so if I gotta use thunder bushings with the Krux pin I will, just wanna make sure it’ll all fit proper.

[close]

I tried thunders with barrels twice, it sucked (once with Krux pins).

Thunders will never turn 'as close as possible' to ACEs. If you want thunders to get turny, keep the bottom stock and sand down the top busing or throw in a soft, lo bushing or throw in bones softs and get ready for wheelbite!

[close]

I put the krux k/p's in my thunder w. Thunder bushings and they felt like thunders....

I've got the krux k/p's in my ACEs with Indy bushings and they feel like ACES with Indy bushings...

Maybe Theeves are the closest turn to an ACE?

[close]

Krux pins in Cast thunder plates were fine for me, with conical bushings, with barrels they just lost their thunder.

Now that Ace perfected their bushings for their truck (I've tried them in: ML, Thunder, Venture, Indy, Theeve and ACE); they work the best in ACE, hands down; great in indy (better than indy bushings) and great in ML (ML stocks are pretty hard if you get the white bushings, they're 94d). I did not like them in Ventures, thunders or theeves.

Theeves are the closest you'll get to ACE for sure, with the right conicals.

Currently riding Ventures with Bones softs top and bottom.

Thank you, I’m gonna not buy the Thunders and just remember that I am forever stuck with Ace’s which is not a bad thing haha.

[I AM]

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Good pivot cups are a thing too, almost as essential as good bushings, just put some white minilogo ones on my 149mm, they seem better quality than Indy aftermarket ones and more responsive, less dead plastic feeling

[close]

Any thoughts/exp on that ?

[close]

DO NOT BUY MINILOGO PIVOT CUPS. THEY ARE STRAIGHT UP HARD ASS PLASTIC (NOT URETHANE) AND THEY DEFORM AND BREAK WITHIN A DAY OF SKATING. ALSO INDY AFTERMARKET CUPS SUCK DICK. THEYRE REALLY CREAKY AND START STRETCHING AROUND THE HANGER UNTIL A HOLE DEVELOPS AFTER ABOUT A WEEK OF SKATING. THIS HAPPENS NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF BUSHING SETUP YOU HAVE. JUST KEEP USING THE “SHITTY” STOCK ONES UNTIL THEY ARE UNRIDEABLE (*IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO GREASE/LUBE BEFORE RIDING) (LOL) AND THEN TRY TO GET NON BRANDED PIVOT CUPS IF YOUR LOCAL SHOP SELLS THEM. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SPEND MORE THAN A DOLLAR OR TWO FOR PIVOT CUPS, AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BUYING THEM IF YOU DONT ABSOLUTELY NEED NEW ONES.

[close]

Homie, why are you yelling?

cuz it needs to b heard

[Sativa Lung]

im talking about the old ones. i like riding bushings without the top washer and old indy stock ones were perfect for this because they didn't create a crevice where the nut would go, they retained their original shape whereas with the aftermarket ones, you have to tighten the nut more and more each session because the nut would dig in and the bushing wouldn't rebound to it's original shape. have you noticed how “high rebound” bushings don't actually rebound to their original shapes? they always get like a millimeter shorter. infuriating.

Huh. I've never actually tried riding without any washer at all. Have you ever considered trying those khiro ones with the built-in aluminum washer and sleeve? I don't know what the quality is like but I'd assume they're more resistant to deformation.