Independent trucks and racist ideology

[Spacetravelisboring]

be like Grosso switch to Ace they turn and grind better , no BS

Why did grosso end up ditching Indy for ace anyway? He was vocal about it no?

[fake nollie.sk8er]

It's a cross. Everyone needs to chill out. I will lose what little respect I had left for the brand if they change the logo.

[Willie]

So is Indy Edward Norton in American History X while Ace is the younger brother?

No, the other way around. I think...

[kneebone]

I would like to enter into evidence the highest award in the British honour system: the Victoria Cross.

That’s not the Indy cross tho

[Bobby Lashley]

Ace 144’s
You’ll never look back

[LonleySk8er15]

Ace 144’s
You’ll never look back

drop the 1 dog. Indy got that shit burned in your brain.

[jakeumms]

I had an indy cross tattooed on me when I was a kid. When I got older I really started realizing what it was associated with when pecker wood white boys and bikers would "brother" up to me in bars and shit. That tattoo is now long gone. I want nothing to do with that business.

This same shit happens to me. I've a hard time describing it but I can tell when it's happening. I watch my overall vibe and gear because of it. It's nice to know I'n m not alone even if it is a pretty wack occurrence.

[Glurmpz]

Expand Quote

I had an indy cross tattooed on me when I was a kid. When I got older I really started realizing what it was associated with when pecker wood white boys and bikers would "brother" up to me in bars and shit. That tattoo is now long gone. I want nothing to do with that business.

[close]

This same shit happens to me. I've a hard time describing it but I can tell when it's happening. I watch my overall vibe and gear because of it. It's nice to know I'n m not alone even if it is a pretty wack occurrence.

I just found out my new room mate has TWO Sublime tattoos. I'm not sure if that's worse than having Nazi shit on you but it's pretty damn white.

[DISTANT RUMOURS]

REALLY Tough discussion.

Although the concave arms, convex ends cross like Indy uses hasn't really been used by nazi's.
It's VERY easy to confuse with the concave (or straight) arms, straight ends version that the nazi's used.

The problem is that Nazi's repurposed old imagery to fit them, they didn't design anything 'new'.

And the other problem is that a lot of people just yell 'nazi imagery' at anything that remotely 'looks' like what the nazi's used.

I guess the differences are too subtle for most people. And I don't blame them.

Also the US doesn't have the history of 'knights' and/or 'midieval' imagery, decorations for old kings etc. and people probably haven't seen that in paintings old books etc. In Europe it's all taught in schools but I have no idea how this is in the US.

LIke I work for a leftwing feminist organisation. I wore Indy longsleeves shirts etc to work and no one asked me anything in 6 years. Ever. 'Oh that's an Iron cross, like the knights!' 'yeah', 'alright cool, here's your briefing for today'. Even the bosses didn't bat an eye when I wore that.

On the other hand, if I didn't have a clue what skateboarding was, didn't know where the cross was used before and I saw a dude with an iron cross shirt and 'INDEPENDENT' written above it. I'd think twice too...

This is NO DISS by any means, just genuine interest how history is taught and interpreted all over the world.
And like I said, tough discussion...

I read Indy was going to change their logo? will it still be a cross? And if so I think some people will ALWAYS find something to diss a certain type of cross.

[igrindtwinkies]

I feel like a cross is such a basic symbol to just ban because of nazi's.  I never even thought twice of it until this thread.  Like others have pointed out too, it's styled a bit different than the crosses the nazs used.  I'd defintely wouldn't wear a patch like this though.  https://images.app.goo.gl/5YzU8YjJoRx4TP4h9

[DISTANT RUMOURS]

I'd defintely wouldn't wear a patch like this though.  https://images.app.goo.gl/5YzU8YjJoRx4TP4h9

Me neither And that was straight adopted from the Nazi's.
Lemmy was REALLY into that stuff (the imagery, he hated the ideology).

[yourmumsballs]

I've been skating since 1988 and i never felt comfortable with Indys logos and graphics. And it's not just about that VERY nazi looking cross logo (their use of black and red really doesn't help) it was pretty much everything they put out. They put out stickers and t-shirt designs that look like they are actively trying to simulate nazi imagery. Indy should have ditched all that shit a long time ago, because this is far from a new discussion.

[stokedtrout]

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I would like to enter into evidence the highest award in the British honour system: the Victoria Cross.

[close]

That’s not the Indy cross tho

The VC is closer to the iron cross used by the Nazis than the Indy cross. It pre-dates the Nazi iron cross by nearly a century. No one has an issue with it.

People who want to liken the indy cross to the Nazi iron cross are desperate for a reason to get triggered.

[Uncle Poseur]

Their use of black and red really doesn't help.

This. If it were a rainbow cross, no one would bat an eye. They certainly seem to be going for a certain look. Iron crosses were really common in punk rock in the 80's; Motorhead, Warzone, etc... pretty sure that's what Indy was going for. But, that was 40 years ago.

[ok boomer]

REALLY Tough discussion.

Although the concave arms, convex ends cross like Indy uses hasn't really been used by nazi's.
It's VERY easy to confuse with the concave (or straight) arms, straight ends version that the nazi's used.

The problem is that Nazi's repurposed old imagery to fit them, they didn't design anything 'new'.

And the other problem is that a lot of people just yell 'nazi imagery' at anything that remotely 'looks' like what the nazi's used.

I guess the differences are too subtle for most people. And I don't blame them.

Also the US doesn't have the history of 'knights' and/or 'midieval' imagery, decorations for old kings etc. and people probably haven't seen that in paintings old books etc. In Europe it's all taught in schools but I have no idea how this is in the US.

LIke I work for a leftwing feminist organisation. I wore Indy longsleeves shirts etc to work and no one asked me anything in 6 years. Ever. 'Oh that's an Iron cross, like the knights!' 'yeah', 'alright cool, here's your briefing for today'. Even the bosses didn't bat an eye when I wore that.

On the other hand, if I didn't have a clue what skateboarding was, didn't know where the cross was used before and I saw a dude with an iron cross shirt and 'INDEPENDENT' written above it. I'd think twice too...

This is NO DISS by any means, just genuine interest how history is taught and interpreted all over the world.
And like I said, tough discussion...

I read Indy was going to change their logo? will it still be a cross? And if so I think some people will ALWAYS find something to diss a certain type of cross.

Most intelligent post in this thread.

[Utopos]

They better change the logo to a teddy bear riding a unicorn, or someone will think it's too scary. You know what, scratch that. Unicorns have sharp horns. Society is too soft.

[Bitter]

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Their use of black and red really doesn't help.

[close]

This. If it were a rainbow cross, no one would bat an eye. They certainly seem to be going for a certain look. Iron crosses were really common in punk rock in the 80's; Motorhead, Warzone, etc... pretty sure that's what Indy was going for. But, that was 40 years ago.

I noticed that they changed the logo on their Instagram page from black/red to green/yellow.

[Mr. Hurtado]

Per Kyle Beachy:

“For anyone interested, NHS has had two different letters they've used to defend the Independent cross logo in the past. Long and short, both here.“

[Utopos]

Per Kyle Beachy:

“For anyone interested, NHS has had two different letters they've used to defend the Independent cross logo in the past. Long and short, both here.“

Good enough for me

[ok boomer]

are Kyle Beachy and eraserheadfuckers the same person?

[silhouette]

For what that's worth, I've heard quite a reps confirm to me before that skateshops running an obvious Indy logo on their window inevitably ran a high risk of getting said window smashed in by randoms, now make of that what you will.

[palelight]

Per Kyle Beachy:

“For anyone interested, NHS has had two different letters they've used to defend the Independent cross logo in the past. Long and short, both here.“

So wack. Globs of metal with bits of rubber shouldn't need two separate disclaimers to make you feel ok about using them. If you have to explain it, it's not worth it. No one's silencing some controversial art, they're fucking skate trucks, they should be as bland as the function they serve. Do you need the tie rods in your Nissan to set you apart from the sea of other drivers with faux-hardass imagery?

Hypocritically, I ride Indy's, and the iron cross has always sucked.

Also, seriously, can we get some confirmation one way or another about this Joey T./George Soros rant?

[Spacetravelisboring]

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They better change the logo to a teddy bear riding a unicorn, or someone will think it's too scary. You know what, scratch that. Unicorns have sharp horns. Society is too soft.

[close]

Cry about it, bitch.

Struck a nerve huh sissy?

[ok boomer]

Maybe Indy should just make Stage VIIs again. No logo (not necessary) and stage VII were the best anyway.
that way you please 2 groups of people.

[Spacetravelisboring]

Maybe Indy should just make Stage VIIs again. No logo (not necessary) and stage VII were the best anyway.
that way you please 2 groups of people.

I don't even like the logo honestly but it's become more of a statement of not letting cancel culture dictate what you can and cannot do.

[tailgrab]

in jim phillips art book he tells the story in his own words of the origin of the indy logo and said he specifically patterned it after the iron cross

when he brought the art in nhs said it looked "too nazi"

so after the rejection he looked through all his magazines and found a photo with the pope wearing a cross that looked like jim's rounded logo (a photo jim never saw before he created the logo)

nhs said that was good enough and ran it the way jim did it first

when indy put out their own book, years after jims, they rewrote the logo story entirely

link to jim phillips book https://www.amazon.com/Jim-Phillips/dp/0764328077/



great read

[Ok]

Maybe Indy should just make Stage VIIs again. No logo (not necessary) and stage VII were the best anyway.
that way you please 2 groups of people.

Dope idea.
To go further, make them at ermico, or other North American foundry. Don’t make a ton. Charge whatever.
I don’t know about the economics of (anything) truck reissues, but it’d be rad.
Will never happen.


**edit**
Take the cross away, from all indys/merch. (Creating an underground market for racist skaters that cannot nose/tail slide to trade/sell trucks.
Come out with the reissue made in ‘murica truck as a nod to positive heritage.

[roastbeef]

I feel like a cross is such a basic symbol to just ban because of nazi's.  I never even thought twice of it until this thread.  Like others have pointed out too, it's styled a bit different than the crosses the nazs used.  I'd defintely wouldn't wear a patch like this though.  https://images.app.goo.gl/5YzU8YjJoRx4TP4h9

Ive worn Independent clothes for decades, rode the trucks for decades. Not once has anyone every even mentioned to me it was a nazi cross and why am I wearing it, because it's not.

[Ok]

Expand Quote

I feel like a cross is such a basic symbol to just ban because of nazi's.  I never even thought twice of it until this thread.  Like others have pointed out too, it's styled a bit different than the crosses the nazs used.  I'd defintely wouldn't wear a patch like this though.  https://images.app.goo.gl/5YzU8YjJoRx4TP4h9

[close]

Ive worn Independent clothes for decades, rode the trucks for decades. Not once has anyone every even mentioned to me it was a nazi cross and why am I wearing it, because it's not.

You wearing it is a perfect endorsement, for me to not want to wear it. Like a lot.

[straight fucking edge]

Ok