Wheelbase on your trucks

[Sativa Lung]

You can't. This was created years ago and while some things may have stayed the same others have not:

Pretty sure the old 149 Thunders were used (which were low AF); old Tensors, nothing about 147 Thunders, etc., Theeve TiH vs V3...

Hell are these taken off Street Corner Ventures or DLX Ventures?

If you look through the actual site (http://skateboardingismylifetimesport.blogspot.com/) you can find the full review of the truck and see if it's one of the older models or not. The ventures are DLX, he talks about the transition in the review. He also has a weight/measures spreadsheet that has a little more detail

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/edit#gid=0

Even though it's a bit dated I find that they mostly hold true when I compare against them, at least in terms of weight which is the only thing I've really kept a record of for my personal truck collection.

[Xen]

Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"

Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"

I'm not buying it (but can't measure because I don't have either).

[hangontoyourego]

Venture 6.1 3.125”

[jay_nev]

Venture 6.1 3.125”

Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!

[hangontoyourego]

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Venture 6.1 3.125” 3.375

[close]

Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!

I’m not so good at math but assuming the polar site is correct on the dimensions that’s what my calculator told me.
Edit yeah I re measured 

[moonordie]

Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"

Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"

I'm not buying it (but can't measure because I don't have either).

We need somebody else to come with measurements on these 2 to be 100% certain

[Roisto]

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Venture 6.1 3.125” 3.375

[close]

Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!

[close]

I’m not so good at math but assuming the polar site is correct on the dimensions that’s what my calculator told me.
Edit yeah I re measured

Polar 8.375”, 8.5” and apparently a whole bunch of others that have the wheelbase listed as 14.5” are actually 14.375”.

Also to all my non-US or Liberian pals: when measuring inches I feel like it’s much better to measure with a tape measure with inches on it, especially when measuring stuff like this. I used to measure with a normal millimeter tape measure and convert to inches but that was a pain and for some reason I’d often be off. Got a tape measure with inches and measuring skate stuffs became easier and more accurate even though the millimeter scale is more accurate than 1/16th on an inch.

[hangontoyourego]

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Venture 6.1 3.125” 3.375

[close]

Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!

[close]

I’m not so good at math but assuming the polar site is correct on the dimensions that’s what my calculator told me.
Edit yeah I re measured

[close]

Polar 8.375”, 8.5” and apparently a whole bunch of others that have the wheelbase listed as 14.5” are actually 14.375”.

Also to all my non-US or Liberian pals: when measuring inches I feel like it’s much better to measure with a tape measure with inches on it, especially when measuring stuff like this. I used to measure with a normal millimeter tape measure and convert to inches but that was a pain and for some reason I’d often be off. Got a tape measure with inches and measuring skate stuffs became easier and more accurate even though the millimeter scale is more accurate than 1/16th on an inch.

The polar site listed 8.625 wb 14.375 I measured 17.75 from axle to axle the 2nd time

[tzhangdox]

Tensor 8.5 ATG mag: +3.125
Venture 8.5 Titanium: +3.4375 (just 1/16th of an inch less than the pinned Venture light 8.5 measurement, maybe I fucked up but it definitely didn't look like the full +3.5)

[palelight]

Strap in.

This has sort of turned into the giant mess I hoped it wouldn’t, but it’s a good reason to illustrate why.

Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"

Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"

I'm not buying it (but can't measure because I don't have either).

- Deck wheelbase measurement (checked at both points, aka, the control. Used South Central deck. Why? Crazy stiff, no warpage, never exhibited any expansion/contraction)

Toeside,


Heelside,


- Checking your measuring method (aka, using a different tape measure. Another method used, start from the 1” line to get the clearest alignment to the centre point of your axle, then subtract 1” from your overall measurement). See the photos above, used two separate tape measures for each measurement.

- Get good light. Keep everything flat and parallel. Ask for help (not seen in these pics, my girlfriend assisting, making sure the tape measure is where it’s supposed to be while I snap pics).

- Toeside, Thunder 149 Team Standards,


- Heelside,


- Are the numbers the same? Cool if yes. If no, subtract the smaller dimension from the bigger, divide your answer by 2, add that to the smaller number, convert it to imperial decimal and you have your average. 14.25" deck wb. 17.375 axle to axle (or +3.125"). Same as on the Team Hollows where the original info came from, with pics. https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039

- Compare a completely different setup to your control (Here’s where my Venture 5.8 casts ended up, my Hockey 8.5 with 14.25 wb, measured the exact same as on my DOA test board, both sides, with different measuring tapes).


- Commence arguing.

Also whoever said the Indy forged had a longer wheelbase. Very correct, and I didn’t know that. Indy Forged have the same wheelbase as Thunder cast. This is why it pays to ask questions. +3.125”


That said, while It’s cool to be skeptical, if you’re going to be contrarian, post contrary evidence, otherwise it’s just the truck thread, which we now have like three of going concurrently. If you’re not doing the necessary work to provide the data - measuring the deck wheelbase, making sure the tape measure you’re using is accurate, checking parallel points, then averaging out the numbers, knowing the simple math involved, etc - and willing to provide pics of all of that, well, it’s just people throwing numbers out there and if it’s wrong hoping someone will catch the screwup. It ends up being as helpful as that ‘skateboarding is my life sport’ blog, which had lots of pretty - and pretty dumb - graphs but zero photos of actual dimensions, just his conclusions.

I’m not going to post anymore of my pics here, but I will make a nice tidy (fingers crossed) place where they can be referenced once I get everything in order. 

Don’t take any of this as salty. Just trying to be transparent about the methodology, and also why without controls (which you can make for yourself if you don’t like mine) this info is ‘meh’ at best.

Edit: Off by 1/16" in my fraction to decimal conversions on the Thunder Team Hollows. The 3.1875," comes from my original post in the truck thread. I'm rechecking that measurement now. I'm guessing the trucks were off center.

Edit 2: Yup, rechecked, the wheelbase for the Team Standard and Team Hollow are both +3.125". This is why we double check shit.

[Esmith5488]

The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.

[texasplant]

The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.

[satan]

Great idea for a thread. It was palelight’s idea though and moonordie just stole it and did it way less properly than palelight. Kinda like someone contemplating filming a stylish and lofty kickflip down a set and you going with a ugly ass mobbed tail scrape baker maker kickflop while he’s setting up. Pretty wack.

GANG!

[Xen]

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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.

[close]

Nice work, palelight! I'm pretty blow away as I am sure most are since we've always dumped them into 'indy' or 'thunder' WB camps. It also explains why Indy forged have always felt fine to me when going back and forth to Thunder cast (which I was doing pretty much all last year and it fed the madness). In that scenario it was no wonder only turn was bugging me on the decks I was riding.

Who knew?

I didn't measure but for a quick eyeball - because the decks just happened to side by side -  I lined up the rear axles of near identical WB/Length boards (Both creature Horror series 8.25" has 14.4WB, 8.375" has 14.5 WB (negligible to me and easy to math) 8.3 with ACE 8.25 with Tensor and the Tensors were easily pushed out almost a full axle width.

[satan]

Indy forged vs cast.. Thunder, Venture too
Just trying to think of reasons why forged and cast have different wb.
Have you guys watched truck making vids and seen how pivot cup holes are drilled? They just set the base plate in a jig and use a drill press, depth is set on the press. Now if they use the same jig for forged and cast, and don't put a shim under forged baseplates, then the longitudinal location of the pivot cup would change slightly. Same for when they drill the kingpin hole. But I'm thinking the holes might move closer together instead of both holes moving the same direction. I'll try getting baked and see if that helps me visualize things. Really that's just an excuse..

[Esmith5488]

Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

This is the best thing you can possibly do. Get out now before it’s too late

[rocklobster]

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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.

[close]

Goddamit just when I thought I had the truck and WB shit figured out we have this revelation to throw a spanner into the works.

Cast = Thinner baseplates, Forged = thicker baseplates? I keep getting the 2 confused.

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

This is the best thing you can possibly do. Get out now before it’s too late

There is no escape, now hop onto the Sales Thread and camp out for deals on trucks.

[satan]

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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.

[close]

[close]

Goddamit just when I thought I had the truck and WB shit figured out we have this revelation to throw a spanner into the works.

Cast = Thinner baseplates, Forged = thicker baseplates? I keep getting the 2 confused.

Other way around. Forged is thinner and lighter.
The "mounting pad" where your hardware goes is thinner. 1-1.5mm depending on the brand?

[jay_nev]

@ palelight thanks for the insight and thoroughness in all. I’m going to grab a beer and remeasure using your toe side and heel side above

[Xen]

Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[munchbox]

so....does the entire thread need a recheck?

[Roisto]

Expand Quote

Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

[Roisto]

so....does the entire thread need a recheck?

This thread needs to get fucked and replaced with the thread palelight was planning on and is going to post once he gets it all together. I respect his authority on keeping it together instead of letting it be a total fucking shit show like this.

[Xen]

Expand Quote

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[close]

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.

If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).

I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.

Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?

[Roisto]

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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.

[close]

Thing about WB is there are only a handful:

14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+

There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:

Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.

So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.

Example:

I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.

On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.

That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).

[close]

Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.

[close]

Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.

If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?

We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).

I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.

Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?

It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.

[Bongwater Mojito]

Film 5.5 (8.25" axle) +2 7/8"

[FrozenIndustries]

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so....does the entire thread need a recheck?

[close]

This thread needs to get fucked and replaced with the thread palelight was planning on and is going to post once he gets it all together. I respect his authority on keeping it together instead of letting it be a total fucking shit show like this.

Yep. Also...I always thought my dislike of forged plates was aesthetic, but seeing all of this and going back to cast ventures makes me realize that there is a bit more substance to it.

[Murge]

Kinda mind blown about the thunder standard Indy forge having the same dimension. I just switched to Indy Ti forged from thunder standards but I’m basically riding the same thing correct? I notice less wheel bite but idk what’s real anymore?

[tzhangdox]

Kinda mind blown about the thunder standard Indy forge having the same dimension. I just switched to Indy Ti forged from thunder standards but I’m basically riding the same thing correct? I notice less wheel bite but idk what’s real anymore?

Thunders getting more wheelbite than Indys isn't related to the wheelbase extension.

[Ok]

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so....does the entire thread need a recheck?

[close]

This thread needs to get fucked and replaced with the thread palelight was planning on and is going to post once he gets it all together. I respect his authority on keeping it together instead of letting it be a total fucking shit show like this.

[close]

Yep. Also...I always thought my dislike of forged plates was aesthetic, but seeing all of this and going back to cast ventures makes me realize that there is a bit more substance to it.

That and cast ventures being the best